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How are multiple asks/bids handled?

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VW53Aland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 47
Founded: Jun 30, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

How are multiple asks/bids handled?

Postby VW53Aland » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:55 am

I think an error has been made. Or there is a bug in the system. Or the system is rigged by a user.

I assumed the following:
  1. When there are multiple bids and just one ask (lower than the lowest bid), the ask and the highest bid will trade (so, the highest bid will get to buy the card at a price halfway between the ask and his bid)
  2. When, in the situation above, a second ask comes in, higher than the first, but still equal or lower than the bids, this will not change the situation for the first ask (so, the highest bid and the lower ask are traded, and the second, higher ask, will trade with the second highest bid if they still match)
  3. If the second ask in the situation above was equal to the first ask, the first ask will still keep its trade as it was, the oldest equal ask or bid will trade first
  4. one cannot ask/bid under 0.01
Please tell me which of these assumptions was false.

Yesterday, I found about 50 bids on a card I owned. Almost all bids were 2.00
There were no asks.
So I asked 0.01, the first and lowest possible ask. As was to be expected, a trade would happen within an hour between the first 2.00 bid and my 0.01 ask at a halfway price of 1.01
It would be certain and irreversible that this trade would take place. No lower ask was possible. An second, equal ask could not push mine out of the deal. A secondary, lower or equal bid would still let me trade with the highest bid. A higher bid would have pushed the previous highest bid out of the trade, meaning I would even get more than 1.01
This morning, I found I had only received 0.26
I therefore believe at least 0.75 was 'stolen' from me. I am happy with the 0.26, but I think the 1.01 trade was unavoidable. If it was not, I want to know how/why?, so I can keep that in mind for future trades. And otherwise, if the system is rigged, or someone is abusing some kind of admin powers, then that would be sad and I probably would not be using the platform any more.

Here is the actual trade list as I found it this morning:
(You may note that the times are off, but I forgot about the trade last night and put my computer to hibernation before I went to bed, therefore the times did not get updated after that.)
1 minute ago: The Dark Side of the Globe sold for 0.26.
1 minute ago: Rainbow Vests bought for 0.26.
1 minute ago: D062 sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 97 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 93 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 87 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 81 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 80 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 71 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 68 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 66 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 65 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 63 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 58 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 56 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 54 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 51 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 50 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 44 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 43 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 42 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 41 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 38 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 32 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 28 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 26 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 22 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 21 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 17 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 16 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 12 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 9 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 8 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 4 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 2 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Oaks 1 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 29 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 30 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 29 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 29 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 29 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 25 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 24 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 22 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 19 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 17 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 16 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 13 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 12 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 11 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 10 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 9 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 8 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 7 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 6 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 5 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 4 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 1 bought for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Refuge Isle sold for 2.00.
1 minute ago: Maple 2 bought for 2.00.
2 minutes ago: Timao withdrew a bid of 0.11.
2 minutes ago: Rainbow Vests bid 0.50.
3 minutes ago: Timao bid 0.11.
82 minutes ago: D062 asked for 1.99.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
88 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
89 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
90 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
91 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
92 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
92 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
92 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
92 minutes ago: Refuge Isle asked for 2.00.
93 minutes ago: Oaks 97 bid 2.00.
96 minutes ago: Oaks 93 bid 2.00.
101 minutes ago: Oaks 87 bid 2.00.
105 minutes ago: Oaks 81 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: The Dark Side of the Globe asked for 0.01.
2 hours ago: Oaks 80 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 71 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 68 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 66 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 65 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 63 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 58 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 56 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 54 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 51 bid 2.00.
2 hours ago: Oaks 50 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 44 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 43 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 42 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 41 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 38 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 32 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 28 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 26 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 22 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 21 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 17 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 16 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 12 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 9 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 8 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 4 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 2 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Oaks 1 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Maple 29 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Maple 30 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Maple 29 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Maple 29 bid 2.00.
3 hours ago: Maple 29 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 25 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 24 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 22 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 19 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 17 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 16 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 13 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 12 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 11 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 10 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 9 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 8 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 7 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 6 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 5 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 4 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 1 bid 2.00.
4 hours ago: Maple 2 bid 2.00.
And this is the card: Tiradella, so you can see for yourself.

Thanks in advance for your explanation and assistance.

On behalf of The Dark Side of the Globe, VW53ALand
Last edited by VW53Aland on Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Frisbeeteria
Senior Game Moderator
 
Posts: 23919
Founded: Dec 16, 2003
Anarchy

Postby Frisbeeteria » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:48 am

VW53Aland wrote:I think an error has been made. Or there is a bug in the system. Or the system is rigged by a user.

No, no, and no. You just don't understand the bidding process.

Your assumption in (2) and (3) are incorrect. The only time when your assumption would be true is if there were only one Bid. In that case, the lowest Ask wins the auction. However, if other Bids are made, they are matched in price order to the nearest Ask. If I had been paying attention to that auction, I'd have bought your card for 0.01 and sold it in the next auction for 2.00.

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VW53Aland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 47
Founded: Jun 30, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby VW53Aland » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:04 pm

Thank you for your answer Frisbeeteria.
So, just to be sure I understand; an example.
On a card are two asks. One for 0.05 and one for 2.00
Now I bid 0.01 and it is matched to the ask of 2.00 (A trade is due in 1 hour for an averaged price of 1.01)
But if within that hour one comes along and bids 0.02, than my bid is (re)matched to the ask of 0.05 and the 0.02 bid is matched to the 2.00?

If that is the case, then I should indeed be lucky that I still got 0.26 because there were asks for 0.05 as well.
Last edited by VW53Aland on Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Pkunk Alliance
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Jul 23, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Pkunk Alliance » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:10 pm

VW53Aland wrote:Thank you for your answer Frisbeeteria.
So, just to be sure I understand; an example.
On a card are two asks. One for 0.05 and one for 2.00
Now I bid 0.01 and it is matched to the ask of 2.00 (A trade is due in 1 hour for an averaged price of 1.01)
But if within that hour one comes along and bids 0.02, than my bid is (re)matched to the ask of 0.05 and the 0.02 bid is matched to the 2.00?

If that is the case, then I should indeed be lucky that I still got 0.26 because there were asks for 0.05 as well.


If your bid is much lower than any ask (like in your scenario .01 bid against .05 and 2.00 asks) it is a moot point. No trade initiated.

If you bid 2.00, it will indeed match to the lowest ask that is lower than the bid.

If a bunch of people make further, higher value bids, it is very likely the original bid will be knocked aside as they are higher.

If more asks are made as well, they catch bids that are higher as they are closer in value to those bids. Your original .01 ask must have been overrun by a massive number of bids and subsequent asks.

It is often wiser to place an ask closer to highest bid as one stands a good chance at making a profit without interference stealing the value of the sale that way.

User avatar
VW53Aland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 47
Founded: Jun 30, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby VW53Aland » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:19 pm

I apologize. I see I have mixed up the bids and asks. I will rephrase my question, as it should have read:
So, just to be sure I understand; an example.
On a card are two bids. One for 0.05 and one for 2.00
Now I ask 0.01 and it is matched to the bid of 2.00 (A trade is due in 1 hour for an averaged price of 1.01)
But if within that hour one comes along and asks 0.02, than my ask is (re)matched to the bid of 0.05 and the 0.02 ask is matched to the 2.00 bid?

If that is the case, then I should indeed be lucky that I still got 0.26 because there were bids for 0.05 as well.

User avatar
The Pkunk Alliance
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 7
Founded: Jul 23, 2015
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Pkunk Alliance » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:56 pm

VW53Aland wrote:I apologize. I see I have mixed up the bids and asks. I will rephrase my question, as it should have read:
So, just to be sure I understand; an example.
On a card are two bids. One for 0.05 and one for 2.00
Now I ask 0.01 and it is matched to the bid of 2.00 (A trade is due in 1 hour for an averaged price of 1.01)
But if within that hour one comes along and asks 0.02, than my ask is (re)matched to the bid of 0.05 and the 0.02 ask is matched to the 2.00 bid?

If that is the case, then I should indeed be lucky that I still got 0.26 because there were bids for 0.05 as well.


I think you should reread my response, as I think I anticipated what you meant.

In short, your small ask was overrun by future asks (that were smaller than future bids) and bids that were initially higher than 2 but later lower to more closely match those asks.

Check the trade history of the card in question for details

Putting such a low ask likely baited a lot of people to respond, thus leading to the horde of future asks and bids
Last edited by The Pkunk Alliance on Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Refuge Isle
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 104
Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:59 pm

Oh, I didn't actually see that this was about my transfer card.

An easy way to keep track of things in your brain box is that, on the left, new asks are inserted from the bottom. On the right, new bids are inserted from the top. They're then arranged by their values, if they are different. Especially, in the case of a bunch of ask/bids that are all the same price, you can send in new asks or bids to push matches to different ones, provided if you have enough bank and copies of a card. Obviously matches with bids that don't mirror the asks split the difference.

The log history is huge, so I don't know if this was you but I remember seeing an ask on Tiradella of one cent, which I thought was hilarious because I know people make that thinking it's unbeatable. And I was mid-way through my bank transfer of some 130 puppets. So I just pushed it to the first person that wasn't me, to show how it wasn't a good strategy. Ordinarily, I just buy people's copies outright at 2.00 bank, because it helps me as much as it helps you. You should sell it for 2.00 next time.
Last edited by Refuge Isle on Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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