Why do we sanction North Korea?

[Poperpoppop]

I'm not sure why you've decided to use Saudi Arabia as a be-all, end-all comparison with North Korea. If the sanctions on NK were lifted, they would waste no time in importing the materials for more weapons from China and tooling themselves up for a nuclear winter, rather than feeding their people or improving their development - as many would baselessly imagine. Saudi Arabia on the other hand... not so much.

I think that sanctions are harming the wrong people.
KJU is still able to live a decadent lifestyle and has found numerous ways to violate them.
I personally view NKs obsession with their military might as a distraction from their economic woes.
If sanctions were removed than it could pacify them - they haven't been in active conflcit with another nation for over 65 years and I don't think that China would let them.

KJU isnt the leader of nk nor the most powerful person in nk, KJI is even though hes dead, its weird

[Pacomia]

I think that sanctions are harming the wrong people.
KJU is still able to live a decadent lifestyle and has found numerous ways to violate them.
I personally view NKs obsession with their military might as a distraction from their economic woes.
If sanctions were removed than it could pacify them - they haven't been in active conflcit with another nation for over 65 years and I don't think that China would let them.

KJU isnt the leader of nk nor the most powerful person in nk, KJI is even though hes dead, its weird

Thought it was still Kim Il-Sung.

[Ethel mermania]

Someone has too.

[Andsed]

Well mostly because they are hostile to the US and its allies. The justification is that NK is a dictatorship that routinely violates human rights(which is true) but seeing as we are friendly with the Saudis and the fact sanctions really only hurt the North Korean people, I think it is unlikely we really did it in some attempt to try and help the North Korean people and more likely that the real reason was for more geopolitical interest.

[Conifer Grove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

Alright, jokes aside, Saudi wasn't threatening to nuke America so...

Saudi was involved in the 9/11 attacks on US soil and recently threatened Canada with a similar style attack https://www.businessinsider.com.au/saud ... ?r=US&IR=T


Meanwhile NK is all sizzle and no sausage

[LiberNovusAmericae]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

Alright, jokes aside, Saudi wasn't threatening to nuke America so...

Saudi was involved in the 9/11 attacks on US soil and recently threatened Canada with a similar style attack https://www.businessinsider.com.au/saud ... ?r=US&IR=T


Meanwhile NK is all sizzle and no sausage

We should separate ourselves from the Saudis as they are a problem, but that does not mean we should give the Norks a free slate. NK conducts assassinations and other nefarious activities, so they are not "all sizzle."

[Neanderthaland]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgk-lA12FBk

Alright, jokes aside, Saudi wasn't threatening to nuke America so...

Saudi was involved in the 9/11 attacks on US soil and recently threatened Canada with a similar style attack https://www.businessinsider.com.au/saud ... ?r=US&IR=T


Meanwhile NK is all sizzle and no sausage

Saudi Arabia is a bad ally. Who could have guessed?

Meanwhile NK executes people for watching Titanic. Now I think James Cameron is overrated, but... damn.

[Ethel mermania]

Saudi was involved in the 9/11 attacks on US soil and recently threatened Canada with a similar style attack https://www.businessinsider.com.au/saud ... ?r=US&IR=T


Meanwhile NK is all sizzle and no sausage

Saudi Arabia is a bad ally. Who could have guessed?

Meanwhile NK executes people for watching Titanic. Now I think James Cameron is overrated, but... damn.

If it were atlas shrugged I would support.

[US-SSR]

We previously sanctioned North Korea in order to pressure the Kim regime to back off its nuclear ambitions. Now that it has demonstrated abilities to construct and detonate nuclear devices and ICBMs, that train has left the station. The policy of the current administration seems to be to flatter Kim so much he forgets to pursue the one path that can keep him and his kleptocracy in power. This is obviously doomed to fail. Absent some radical change in that policy, one that would obviously have to include the removal of the current occupant of the Oval Office, any policy approach toward Pyongyang is going to have to take into account the fact that it is the world's newest nuclear power, and considerations such as human rights, proliferation and destabilizing the region have to take a back seat to the possibility of its launching a destructive nuclear strike that would be horrifying on a scale the world has never known.

And that is not a good thing.

[Narland]

Why do we sanction North Korea when there are countries with arguably worse human rights conditions such as Saudi Arabia?

Ad Hominem - Tu Quoque Fallacy --just because we wrongfully put up with human rights abuse in Saudi Arabia doesn't make it right, nor does it exonerate North Korea. We are currently sanctioning NK for their human rights abuses not only against their own citizens but against anyone caught in their political schemes (including kidnapped Japanese and South Korean children). Also for their warmongering and persistent sabre-rattling as a rogue state from threat of an imminent missile attacks on Hawaii and Guam to regular threats to nuke Los Angeles and San Francisco for decades.

In North Korea women have the same rights as men.

Which, except for the political class (not much) is is none. Their Constitution is a piece of paper and like the Soviet Union they are a Republic in name only. The people are regimented in all aspects of life. They are told when and where to work. How much food they will receive. Who will go to school and what courses they will take. As a consequence most people are malnourished, lack adequate medical care, and are indoctrinated into a cult-like thinking that they are better off then the rest of the world.

In North Korea there are many different religious beliefs tolerated, while in Saudi Arabia only one is.

In North Korea, the Constitution guarantees "freedom of religious beliefs". However, in reality there is no freedom of religion in the country. According to one report at least 200,000 Christians have gone missing since 1953. Christians in North Korea are said to be the most persecuted in the world. -- Wikipedia "Freedom of Religion in North Korea" Religious expression except for ceremonial devotion to the Leader (which included his Father and Grandfather) is highly discouraged. If you are a devout Christian you are an enemy of the State. If you are not a member of the party (Communist therefore Atheist) you are not a friend of the State.

In North Korea there was never any laws against homosexuality meanwhile in Saudi Arabia gay people are killed by the state.

Homosexuality and transgender issues are not formally addressed in the penal code. Criminal sanctions are sometimes levied against homosexuality or non-conforming gender expression deemed to be, "against the socialist lifestyle." While punishment was rare, it has been reported by The Korea Times that North Korea has executed gay couples under this law. -- Wikipedia "LGBT Rights in North Korea"

The US currently supports a Saudi led war in Yemen that has led to the deaths of over 230,000 people.

An issue for serious discussion for not renewing favored nation status with Saudi Arabia.

I propose we remove sanctions on the DPRK (North Korea).

I propose we keep sanctions on NK and remove Most Favored Nation Status from Saudi Arabia, until they shape up.

[Kowani]

OP-you haven’t made an argument against dropping sanctions on North Korea, you’ve made one for enforcing them on Saudi Arabia.

[The Sherpa Empire]

Maybe it's because of the dictator who threatens to nuke everyone. Just a thought.

You don't say!

[Satuga]

They are a dictatorship, that oppresses it's people, executes or imprisons political dissidents, shoots to kill people attempting to leave the country, as well as their families being punished. On top of all of that, literally teaches their citizens that America is evil incarnate, and the cause of all their problems. Is there really much else to be said?

[Rojava Free State]

I propose we keep sanctions on NK and remove Most Favored Nation Status from Saudi Arabia, until they shape up.

They will never shape up. Saudi Arabia is a tyrannical sharia state that literally whipped a woman in public for "witchcraft." They're technologically on the same level as us but socially they're stuck in the middle ages. Us selling them weapons would be like giving guns to the vikings. You can't tell a nation that still thinks it's their duty to kill heretics that bombing Yemen is wrong. All we can do is no longer do business with them and even better, we can get out of the region so Americans aren't dying in religious wars caused primarily by extremists that we continue to back up. Let the Saudis fight their little war and actually see what a war looks like. Who knows, maybe it'll finally convince Shia and Sunni islam to reconcile like the Catholics and protestants did in most of europe after the reformation and following wars...or in northern Ireland after thirty years of civil war

[Vivolkha]

I propose we keep sanctions on NK and remove Most Favored Nation Status from Saudi Arabia, until they shape up.

They will never shape up. Saudi Arabia is a tyrannical sharia state that literally whipped a woman in public for "witchcraft." They're technologically on the same level as us but socially they're stuck in the middle ages. Us selling them weapons would be like giving guns to the vikings. You can't tell a nation that still thinks it's their duty to kill heretics that bombing Yemen is wrong. All we can do is no longer do business with them and even better, we can get out of the region so Americans aren't dying in religious wars caused primarily by extremists that we continue to back up. Let the Saudis fight their little war and actually see what a war looks like. Who knows, maybe it'll finally convince Shia and Sunni islam to reconcile like the Catholics and protestants did in most of europe after the reformation and following wars...or in northern Ireland after thirty years of civil war

Saudis are not barbarians - they just have the misfortune that their country is basically the royal family's private property. Without them, it would probably ressemble other MENA nations more, which is very far from perfect but also better than what they are now.

[Uinted Communist of Africa]

I like how people are saying "We cant lift sanctions on North Korea because he is threating everyone with nukes" yet if I remember America has done it several freakin times in the past and does business with plenty of countries that have nukes and or experimented with nukes at one point. Seems to me this isn't a matter of nuclear deterrence but stopping korea from growing. Just a thought

[-Ocelot-]

They are a dictatorship, that oppresses it's people, executes or imprisons political dissidents, shoots to kill people attempting to leave the country, as well as their families being punished. On top of all of that, literally teaches their citizens that America is evil incarnate, and the cause of all their problems. Is there really much else to be said?

It's not just the internal issues. NK is being sanctioned because it openly threatens many countries, most notably Japan, South Korea and the US.

Here is their latest contribution towards accidental nuclear holocaust:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/1 ... ear-talks/

[Satuga]

I like how people are saying "We cant lift sanctions on North Korea because he is threating everyone with nukes" yet if I remember America has done it several freakin times in the past and does business with plenty of countries that have nukes and or experimented with nukes at one point. Seems to me this isn't a matter of nuclear deterrence but stopping korea from growing. Just a thought

I believe the only time America has threatened other countries with nukes is Japan in ww2 but these were experimental and the long term effects were not know. Then Russia and I think Cuba because of the Cuban missile crisis. This was during the cold war in which Russia and USA were sizing themselves up and threatening each other constantly. Now we have NK in which we threatened only after them threatening us. However their previous constant threats of US and it's allies is not the only reason why we sanction, if you would kindly look to my post above.

[Satuga]

They are a dictatorship, that oppresses it's people, executes or imprisons political dissidents, shoots to kill people attempting to leave the country, as well as their families being punished. On top of all of that, literally teaches their citizens that America is evil incarnate, and the cause of all their problems. Is there really much else to be said?

It's not just the internal issues. NK is being sanctioned because it openly threatens many countries, most notably Japan, South Korea and the US.

Here is their latest contribution towards accidental nuclear holocaust:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/1 ... ear-talks/

Yes Im aware of them doing this, it's just that this isn't the only reason why sanctions were placed.

[The Emerald Legion]

During a state of worldwide war. You can argue whether or not it was justifiable to nuke Japan, that's another thread. But at that point Japan was a hostile nation and an aggressor. What do Japan, South Korea and Australia actively do that warrants them being blown off the face of the planet?

to North Korea those countries and the United States are all hostile and aggressors.

And? What does that matter?

[Munkcestrian Republic]

to North Korea those countries and the United States are all hostile and aggressors.

And? What does that matter?

We should take everyone’s opinions into account

[Kowani]

And? What does that matter?

We should take everyone’s opinions into account

Fuck that. Not every opinion deserves to be heard.

[Munkcestrian Republic]

We should take everyone’s opinions into account

Fuck that. Not every opinion deserves to be heard.

It’s a perfectly reasonable opinion for the vast majority of North Koreans to hold, given the USA’s amazing job of winning hearts and minds during the Korean War

[Kowani]

Fuck that. Not every opinion deserves to be heard.

It’s a perfectly reasonable opinion for the vast majority of North Koreans to hold, given the USA’s amazing job of winning hearts and minds during the Korean War

Didn’t say that there was no reason for them to hold it. Just that it’s irrelevant.

[The Lone Alliance]

Fuck that. Not every opinion deserves to be heard.

It’s a perfectly reasonable opinion for the vast majority of North Koreans to hold, given the USA’s amazing job of winning hearts and minds during the Korean War

There was no job to win hearts and minds in the Korean War, North Korea did invade South Korea after all and did a very shitty job trying to win hearts and minds in South Korea when they did so.
(Nothing says loving like firing squads!)

And when they got out played they stopped mattering for most of the war.

The war had gone so badly for North Korea after the initial offensive that if China hadn't intervened it's highly likely it would have been a complete rout and North Korea would be a country that only exists on paper... and I'm sure part of China regrets they did intervene considering how much of a headache they are sometimes.