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[POLL] How willing are you to forgive certain actions?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which of the following acts would you find impossible, or extremely difficult to forgive?

Abuse on social media
28
5%
Child abuse
140
23%
Discrimination
45
7%
Infidelity
70
11%
Lying
19
3%
Murder
120
19%
Sexual abuse
133
21%
Stealing
28
5%
Swearing
8
1%
Verbal abuse
29
5%
 
Total votes : 620

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Panggaea
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Jun 08, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

[POLL] How willing are you to forgive certain actions?

Postby Panggaea » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:38 pm

I saw a similar poll carried out by the BBC in the United Kingdom earlier this year, and I thought about recreating it to see what the NS community thinks. This above poll is basically asking, if you knew someone who committed one of the ten acts listed, how hard would it be for you to forgive them? i.e. which of the acts listed would it be impossible or extremely difficult for you to forgive? You can pick as many or as little options as you want in the poll. Choose an option if you think it's impossible/difficult to forgive, and leave an option blank if you think it's relatively easier to forgive.

Personally, while all the acts listed are of various degrees of bad, I would find it very much more difficult to forgive someone for child abuse, murder, and sexual abuse. I would find it relatively easy to forgive someone for lying, swearing, and verbal abuse. Meanwhile, my thoughts regarding abuse on social media, discrimination, infidelity, and stealing sit in a grey area, in that I wouldn't say its extremely difficult or impossible to forgive, but I also wouldn't say it would be as easy as forgiving someone for lying, swearing, or verbal abuse.

Let us know what you think after voting.

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Pacomia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:43 pm

I don’t really know as I’ve never really thought about this, but child abuse and sexual abuse are probably the big ones. Hell, I might even forgive murder. Probably not. Maybe.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
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Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
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Beatitas
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Postby Beatitas » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:52 pm

Pacomia wrote:I don’t really know as I’ve never really thought about this, but child abuse and sexual abuse are probably the big ones. Hell, I might even forgive murder. Probably not. Maybe.

I just have a question for you. Of course, child and sexual abuse is almost unforgivable, but why might you forgive the intentional killing of a living person? When someone dies, he or she will never see the light of day, nor the stars of the heavens. That person has family and friends that love him or her, and he or she loves them too. Murder is the ultimate sin, taking somebody's life out of the body. Who knows what good the person could have done in life?

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:55 pm

I’m willing to understand and forgive everything.

Everyone can be understood and helped.
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Rojava Free State
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:58 pm

I only forgive people who admit they were wrong.
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Beatitas
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Postby Beatitas » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:00 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:I’m willing to understand and forgive everything.

Everyone can be understood and helped.

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

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Nogodia
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Posts: 248
Founded: Dec 11, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nogodia » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:06 am

Beatitas wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I’m willing to understand and forgive everything.

Everyone can be understood and helped.

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Well, they're dead, and therefore unable to be understood. I think pulling a strawman like "Hitler & Stalin" (don't you forget Mao) was NOT the best way to initiate discussion.

I personally wouldn't forgive the obvious ones that hurt me, and would very much find it difficult to forgive child abuse. Infidelity is also a no go. I already have that contract in my head: Cheat on me, and unless you can justify it (coerced by a threat, were handicapped in a way that couldn't have been avoided/isn't your fault) it's an instant breakup/divorce.
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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:09 am

Rojava Free State wrote:I only forgive people who admit they were wrong.

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Beatitas
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Postby Beatitas » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:09 am

Nogodia wrote:
Beatitas wrote:Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Well, they're dead, and therefore unable to be understood. I think pulling a strawman like "Hitler & Stalin" (don't you forget Mao) was NOT the best way to initiate discussion.

I personally wouldn't forgive the obvious ones that hurt me, and would very much find it difficult to forgive child abuse. Infidelity is also a no go. I already have that contract in my head: Cheat on me, and unless you can justify it (coerced by a threat, were handicapped in a way that couldn't have been avoided/isn't your fault) it's an instant breakup/divorce.

So what you're saying is that as long as they have a good reason, then they are forgivable? That makes sense.

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Cappuccina
Minister
 
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Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:12 am

Nogodia wrote:
Beatitas wrote:Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?

Well, they're dead, and therefore unable to be understood. I think pulling a strawman like "Hitler & Stalin" (don't you forget Mao) was NOT the best way to initiate discussion.

I personally wouldn't forgive the obvious ones that hurt me, and would very much find it difficult to forgive child abuse. Infidelity is also a no go. I already have that contract in my head: Cheat on me, and unless you can justify it (coerced by a threat, were handicapped in a way that couldn't have been avoided/isn't your fault) it's an instant breakup/divorce.

That's a good idea, remember cheaters are never sorry and it's not "an accident". Don't fall for that.

Also, child abusers are some of the worst pieces of shit in the universe.
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
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Left/Right: -5.25
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وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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Pacomia
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Founded: May 23, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:18 am

Beatitas wrote:
Pacomia wrote:I don’t really know as I’ve never really thought about this, but child abuse and sexual abuse are probably the big ones. Hell, I might even forgive murder. Probably not. Maybe.

I just have a question for you. Of course, child and sexual abuse is almost unforgivable, but why might you forgive the intentional killing of a living person? When someone dies, he or she will never see the light of day, nor the stars of the heavens. That person has family and friends that love him or her, and he or she loves them too. Murder is the ultimate sin, taking somebody's life out of the body. Who knows what good the person could have done in life?

Murder is complicated, I think, more so than abuse. Oftentimes murderers have a motive, and sometimes it’s a pretty good motive. Obviously I don’t condone the killing of people, but I actually think I may find it easier to forgive- or at least understand- than physical abuse.

Also, I don’t believe in sins. I don’t think anything is intrinsically good or bad, virtue or sin.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

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Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2256
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:21 am

Pacomia wrote:
Beatitas wrote:I just have a question for you. Of course, child and sexual abuse is almost unforgivable, but why might you forgive the intentional killing of a living person? When someone dies, he or she will never see the light of day, nor the stars of the heavens. That person has family and friends that love him or her, and he or she loves them too. Murder is the ultimate sin, taking somebody's life out of the body. Who knows what good the person could have done in life?

Murder is complicated, I think, more so than abuse. Oftentimes murderers have a motive, and sometimes it’s a pretty good motive. Obviously I don’t condone the killing of people, but I actually think I may find it easier to forgive- or at least understand- than physical abuse.

Also, I don’t believe in sins. I don’t think anything is intrinsically good or bad, virtue or sin.

Anything? Nothing at all?
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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Beatitas
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Posts: 14
Founded: Jun 07, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Beatitas » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:23 am

Pacomia wrote:
Beatitas wrote:I just have a question for you. Of course, child and sexual abuse is almost unforgivable, but why might you forgive the intentional killing of a living person? When someone dies, he or she will never see the light of day, nor the stars of the heavens. That person has family and friends that love him or her, and he or she loves them too. Murder is the ultimate sin, taking somebody's life out of the body. Who knows what good the person could have done in life?

Murder is complicated, I think, more so than abuse. Oftentimes murderers have a motive, and sometimes it’s a pretty good motive. Obviously I don’t condone the killing of people, but I actually think I may find it easier to forgive- or at least understand- than physical abuse.

Also, I don’t believe in sins. I don’t think anything is intrinsically good or bad, virtue or sin.

That's an interesting stand. My question though, is why it's easier to forgive.

I'm sorry for using the word "sin". I come from a religious background. By saying that nothing is intrinsically bad or good, then is what you're saying is that morality is subjective?

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:25 am

Beatitas wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I’m willing to understand and forgive everything.

Everyone can be understood and helped.

Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?


Yes

If they understood the wrong and tried to atone
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Beatitas
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Postby Beatitas » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:28 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Beatitas wrote:Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?


Yes

If they understood the wrong and tried to atone

In that case, I'm not sure, since the past cannot be altered and their lives cannot be given back. But then again, because the past is past their mistakes are past too.

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Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: May 23, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:32 am

Beatitas wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Murder is complicated, I think, more so than abuse. Oftentimes murderers have a motive, and sometimes it’s a pretty good motive. Obviously I don’t condone the killing of people, but I actually think I may find it easier to forgive- or at least understand- than physical abuse.

Also, I don’t believe in sins. I don’t think anything is intrinsically good or bad, virtue or sin.

That's an interesting stand. My question though, is why it's easier to forgive.

I'm sorry for using the word "sin". I come from a religious background. By saying that nothing is intrinsically bad or good, then is what you're saying is that morality is subjective?

Yeah, I guess so. To the people that did 9/11, they were doing the world a service and saw it as a good thing. To the Nazis, the Holocaust was also a good thing. Different people see different things as good, morality isn’t objective. Of course, if society in general sees something as good or bad, it really just becomes good or bad, which is why it’s generally accepted that 9/11 and the Holocaust were bad. But some people will always disagree.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

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Cappuccina
Minister
 
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Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:34 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Beatitas wrote:Can you forgive Hitler and Stalin?


Yes

If they understood the wrong and tried to atone

They didn't.
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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Beatitas
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Postby Beatitas » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:37 am

Pacomia wrote:
Beatitas wrote:That's an interesting stand. My question though, is why it's easier to forgive.

I'm sorry for using the word "sin". I come from a religious background. By saying that nothing is intrinsically bad or good, then is what you're saying is that morality is subjective?

Yeah, I guess so. To the people that did 9/11, they were doing the world a service and saw it as a good thing. To the Nazis, the Holocaust was also a good thing. Different people see different things as good, morality isn’t objective. Of course, if society in general sees something as good or bad, it really just becomes good or bad, which is why it’s generally accepted that 9/11 and the Holocaust were bad. But some people will always disagree.

All of that sounds right.

But let's get back to the original question. Why is murder easier to forgive sometimes?

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Pacomia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:39 am

Beatitas wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Yeah, I guess so. To the people that did 9/11, they were doing the world a service and saw it as a good thing. To the Nazis, the Holocaust was also a good thing. Different people see different things as good, morality isn’t objective. Of course, if society in general sees something as good or bad, it really just becomes good or bad, which is why it’s generally accepted that 9/11 and the Holocaust were bad. But some people will always disagree.

All of that sounds right.

But let's get back to the original question. Why is murder easier to forgive sometimes?

I don’t know. Just seems like more of a nuanced thing, you know? It’s really a case-by-case basis. I can think of no instance where sexual abuse and child abuse is forgivable. I can think of some where murder is forgivable- say, as revenge for an equally bad or worse thing- I would forgive someone for murdering a sexual abuser, for example.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

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Beatitas
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Postby Beatitas » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:39 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
Yes

If they understood the wrong and tried to atone

They didn't.

Let's just assume that for a moment, Hitler before shooting himself atoned genuinely and Stalin saw that he was wrong.

Would you forgive them then?

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Beatitas
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Founded: Jun 07, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Beatitas » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:43 am

Pacomia wrote:
Beatitas wrote:All of that sounds right.

But let's get back to the original question. Why is murder easier to forgive sometimes?

I don’t know. Just seems like more of a nuanced thing, you know? It’s really a case-by-case basis. I can think of no instance where sexual abuse and child abuse is forgivable. I can think of some where murder is forgivable- say, as revenge for an equally bad or worse thing- I would forgive someone for murdering a sexual abuser, for example.

When I was reading that, something struck me from something I've heard.

"If fire is fought with fire, the whole world will go up in flames."

Another example: The Red Army on the way to Berlin raped innocent German women. I don't know why exactly, but probably in repercussion for what the Germans did. Did the Soviets do right in your eyes?

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Nogodia
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nogodia » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:46 am

I'm an atheist, but I always thought about this concept:

If a god is all-knowing, all-good, and all-powerful, it should seek to always do what is good, and do it immediately. For some of us, certain actions are immoral, while others condone or even engage in them. Whether it's smoking, loving a member of the same sex, or eating pork, we believe certain things are subjectively immoral or moral. Murder and stealing are a big deal in that regard. While almost everyone agrees it's bad to take something that doesn't belong to you or take another life, some justify the actions, whether out of necessity, starvation, self-defense, etc.

The idea I had is, what if an all-knowing god had an idea of what was objectively good, and acted with all their power to ensure it happened. Sure, 100% of the human population could say "X is bad", but do we really know it is? Frankly, we can't answer that question.

Just my little shower-thought.
Nogodia means no-hope-place. Don't use religion as a casus belli like that guy.
Nation partially represents political views. If you're a tiny, new, despotic nation trying to start wars, we WILL fight you.
Proud Broad Centrist/Hamburg Faction Balthorist
All hail the Balthorcracy, and feel free to ask me anything about the ideology.
Vaukiai wrote:I am sure that if I say everything the opposite, you don't warn me.

This forum is a jewish dictatorship.

BLASNIAENIA wrote:
Inven wrote:A major threat, especially for small islands nation like Tuvalu


Can't they move?


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Trixtoria wrote:
BlueSteel does NOT support the institution of slavery. We thank you for you interest.

Why not?

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Cappuccina
Minister
 
Posts: 2256
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:51 am

Beatitas wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:They didn't.

Let's just assume that for a moment, Hitler before shooting himself atoned genuinely and Stalin saw that he was wrong.

Would you forgive them then?

No. Their deeds were unforgivable. But it isn't me they would be asking for forgiveness.
Muslim, Female, Not white..... oppression points x3!!!!
Automobile fan!!! ^_^
Left/Right: -5.25
SocLib/Auth: 2.46

وحاربهم حتى لم يعد هناك فتنة ، والعبادة ستكون كلها لله وحده.

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Pacomia
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: May 23, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pacomia » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:54 am

Beatitas wrote:
Pacomia wrote:I don’t know. Just seems like more of a nuanced thing, you know? It’s really a case-by-case basis. I can think of no instance where sexual abuse and child abuse is forgivable. I can think of some where murder is forgivable- say, as revenge for an equally bad or worse thing- I would forgive someone for murdering a sexual abuser, for example.

When I was reading that, something struck me from something I've heard.

"If fire is fought with fire, the whole world will go up in flames."

Another example: The Red Army on the way to Berlin raped innocent German women. I don't know why exactly, but probably in repercussion for what the Germans did. Did the Soviets do right in your eyes?

No, they did not. Those women did nothing wrong.

Raping Hitler might actually be worse, though.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex
Results of political various tests I took meme awesome
Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.87547 (similar to Malta)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

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Beatitas
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Jun 07, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Beatitas » Sat Sep 21, 2019 12:54 am

Nogodia wrote:I'm an atheist, but I always thought about this concept:

If a god is all-knowing, all-good, and all-powerful, it should seek to always do what is good, and do it immediately. For some of us, certain actions are immoral, while others condone or even engage in them. Whether it's smoking, loving a member of the same sex, or eating pork, we believe certain things are subjectively immoral or moral. Murder and stealing are a big deal in that regard. While almost everyone agrees it's bad to take something that doesn't belong to you or take another life, some justify the actions, whether out of necessity, starvation, self-defense, etc.

The idea I had is, what if an all-knowing god had an idea of what was objectively good, and acted with all their power to ensure it happened. Sure, 100% of the human population could say "X is bad", but do we really know it is? Frankly, we can't answer that question.

Just my little shower-thought.

I'm Catholic.

I'll just share my religion's view. I'm not saying that it's true or that you should believe it, these are just my thoughts.

What I have been taught is that since God is omnipotent, omniscient, and all good, he only does good. The reason why sin exists is because of free will. If there is no free will, then the world is perfect. But God didn't make it that way. He wanted humans to experience choosing him, thus he allowed free will, and along with it, sin. God does not condone sin, but he allows it.

Also, even if a grave sin is committed, then that doesn't matter as long as you repent.

Remember, these are just my thoughts.

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