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Monotheism: What Are Its Virtues?

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Erythrean Thebes
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Monotheism: What Are Its Virtues?

Postby Erythrean Thebes » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:37 am

Anthropological research usually finds that primitive societies are polytheistic; the two normal varieties are some combination of animism and shamanism. All Eurasian societies were polytheistic before Judaism, but as we all know, the Jewish religion eventually spawned two revival cults after the fall of the Hasmonean Kingdom and eventually the Abrahamic religions took over all of Europe and Western Asia. If we view religion as a choice of belief, then we can see the world of religion as a marketplace for people to select religious beliefs from the religions they know of. Most religions purport to offer an invisible truth about the nature of imperceptible realms of existence - the origin of the world, and mankind. Even though syncretic beliefs exist increasingly in the developed world, historically religions usually proclaimed that their own view of these mysteries was the truth. Other religions could appreciate some aspects of the same truth, just in different or actually inferior terms. Since religions compete in such a way for the position of expounding the truth, with human beings acting as the arbiters or perhaps the 'consumers' of religion, it would be friendly to the logic of the major religions themselves to suppose that a religion's "success" is best measured by the number of adherents it can claim across the world. Historically, there has just been no contest in this category against the success of the two major monotheistic religions: Christianity and Islam.

World-historically, peoples that came into contact with Christianity in its European homeland were very often eager to embrace the religion for themselves. Actually, Islam is a distant result of the prestige of Christian monotheism as it reached into Arabia. However Mohammed, the prophet of Islam, envisioned the religion as a purification of the Roman monotheism and foretold that the destruction of the Roman Empire would be the eschatological destiny of the Muslims. For him and the early Muslims the Roman Empire was the dominant power of the age, and the Empire's claims to universal political and religious hegemony both meant that the true monotheism, Islam, necessarily had to overcome and destroy it as part of expounding the true religion, vindicating it. Pagan rulers from nations such as the Avars, the Bulgars, the Rus, or the Hungarians opted to switch directly to Christianity instead.

Nor did late-adherents to Christianity merely embrace the veneer of the religion for purely political purposes. Boris I, the Bulgarian Khan who brought Christianity to Bulgaria, asked for answers to over 100 doctrinal questions from Pope Nicholas I, many of which concerned questions of conscience and the real issue of what Christianity meant for Old Bulgarian customs and beliefs. The Rus, according to their own history, decided in the first place that they wanted a monotheism for the sake of its sacred powers - they then went shopping amongst Islam, Judaism, and Christianity for whichever one was best. Baptism for previously pagan leaders oftentimes meant changing their name to one from the Christian canon - as in the case of Istvan, the first King of Hungary.

What merits did all of these world-historical leaders perceive in monotheism, that they switched from their current faiths? Historically the Avars, the Bulgarians, the Slavs, the Hungarians - these leaders were well-positioned in relation to their urbanized neighbors and spent most of the Early Middle Ages as aggressors against the Byzantine Empire and Central Europe. They were not forced to convert against their will, like so many indigenous in America or the Pacific (even though there are some, like the Philippinos, who willingly converted). Is it that there is some intrinsic appeal to monotheism, perhaps particularly concerning the quest for authority, charisma, or truth? Or are the circumstances all-important?
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Postby Diopolis » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:41 am

Men know and embrace the truth written in their hearts when the lies of devils are driven away.
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South Central South-Park
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Postby South Central South-Park » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:44 am

Well its way easier keeping track of who to pray to, so theres that for one. You expect me and the people of South Central South-Park to have to think when we pray and remember which particular god to pray to over a particular issue? We have enough bureaucracy as it is!

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:47 am

Diopolis wrote:Men know and embrace the truth written in their hearts when the lies of devils are driven away.


Is that why more and more people become atheist :P ?

And I think it is the simplicity. People like to have one leader; not a commitee. It is why we have kings, emperors, presidents.
Last edited by The Alma Mater on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hanafuridake » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:50 am

Personally I think it had more to do with the character of Christianity itself more than just monotheism. Since Atenism was introduced in Egypt and completely vanished when Akhenaten died. Neoplatonism, which was monotheistic as well, didn't achieve the same massive following that Christiandom would either.
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:51 am

The Alma Mater wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Men know and embrace the truth written in their hearts when the lies of devils are driven away.


Is that why more and more people become atheist :P ?

And I think it is the simplicity. People like to have one leader; not a commitee. It is why we have kings, emperors, presidents.

Better marketing as well.

Why would you want to stick with your petty and wrathful pantheon when you could follow and all powerful bring eho absolutely lives you and promises eternal life *coughinheavencough*

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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:53 am

Still, people still want polytheism and a feeling of choice. It is why the devil was invented as a second God.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:54 am

Diopolis wrote:Men know and embrace the truth written in their hearts when the lies of devils are driven away.


Satanism says causally hi.

The Alma Mater wrote:Still, people still want polytheism and a feeling of choice. It is why the devil was invented as a second God.


Thats the idea.

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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:55 am

It enhances social cohesion and it establishes a basis for morality, both of which can be corrupted from their original intentions to support imperialism, slavery, and autocracy. This makes it appeal to leaders who can take advantage of such a system to control the masses whether they genuinely support it or not.
Once the leader has converted, they will almost certainly proceed to convert the population, because there's little point in a religion-based government if the population does not follow that religion.

Morally, I don't think it has many virtues over polytheism (yes, most monotheistic religions describe their god as good, but if that were true, these religions would have a pretty warped sense of what's good or evil), but it's pretty obvious why kings and emperors tended to convert to monotheism more than they converted away from it.

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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:58 am

Diopolis wrote:Men know and embrace the truth written in their hearts when the lies of devils are driven away.

Just gonna point out here that (according to what I remember from the Bible) demons can quote scripture and (according to logical conclusions drawn from their stated feats) a particularly powerful demon would most likely capable of performing every single one of Jesus' miracles.
Lucifer was God's most powerful angel, and I highly doubt that fooling a Bronze Age civilization in the middle of massive political upheaval would be beyond his abilities.
Last edited by Evil Dictators Happyland on Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby US-SSR » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:59 am

Only one god to disbelieve in. Being atheistic towards a whole pantheon gets tiring.
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:15 am

US-SSR wrote:Only one god to disbelieve in. Being atheistic towards a whole pantheon gets tiring.

It's difficult to blaspheme against an entire pantheon simultaneously. This issue, notably, does not exist with monotheistic religions.

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Postby United Muscovite Nations » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:24 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Men know and embrace the truth written in their hearts when the lies of devils are driven away.

Just gonna point out here that (according to what I remember from the Bible) demons can quote scripture and (according to logical conclusions drawn from their stated feats) a particularly powerful demon would most likely capable of performing every single one of Jesus' miracles.
Lucifer was God's most powerful angel, and I highly doubt that fooling a Bronze Age civilization in the middle of massive political upheaval would be beyond his abilities.

Satan cannot bring the dead back to life.

Also, Jesus didn't live in the bronze age, but that's more of a nitpick
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Postby Pacomia » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:24 am

Not sure if there are any.
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Postby New Aeyariss » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:29 am

People also tend to ignore the amount of civilizing influence that monotheistic faiths had upon pagain kingdoms they converted. In those times, bringing in clergy usually meant bringing in people with considerable education and skill. Let's not forget that slavic alphabets were made by missionary monks from Byzantium; or the fact that very often the invading barbarians assimilated latin culture, and with it, the latin religion.
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Postby The Alma Mater » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:40 am

New Aeyariss wrote:People also tend to ignore the amount of civilizing influence that monotheistic faiths had upon pagain kingdoms they converted. In those times, bringing in clergy usually meant bringing in people with considerable education and skill. Let's not forget that slavic alphabets were made by missionary monks from Byzantium; or the fact that very often the invading barbarians assimilated latin culture, and with it, the latin religion.


You do realise that the pagan *empires* were usually more advanced ?
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:04 am

By and large it's not so much that Monotheism is particularly worthy as it is Abrahamic Faith's tendency to infect secular power whenever given the opportunity.

So in essence you ended up with scenarios where Christianities spread has more to do with secular political pressure followed by long term christianization enabled by that pressure.
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Postby Purpelia » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:57 am

Monotheism has one big virtue compared to the alternatives of its age. And that's the fact that you only have to appease/sacrifice to/pray to one god and not a myriad. So if you are in the market for irrational beliefs based on unprovable tales and incredible claims without evidence its the most efficient choice.
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Postby Farnhamia » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:02 am

Erythrean Thebes wrote:
Anthropological research usually finds that primitive societies are polytheistic; the two normal varieties are some combination of animism and shamanism. All Eurasian societies were polytheistic before Judaism, but as we all know, the Jewish religion eventually spawned two revival cults after the fall of the Hasmonean Kingdom and eventually the Abrahamic religions took over all of Europe and Western Asia. If we view religion as a choice of belief, then we can see the world of religion as a marketplace for people to select religious beliefs from the religions they know of. Most religions purport to offer an invisible truth about the nature of imperceptible realms of existence - the origin of the world, and mankind. Even though syncretic beliefs exist increasingly in the developed world, historically religions usually proclaimed that their own view of these mysteries was the truth. Other religions could appreciate some aspects of the same truth, just in different or actually inferior terms. Since religions compete in such a way for the position of expounding the truth, with human beings acting as the arbiters or perhaps the 'consumers' of religion, it would be friendly to the logic of the major religions themselves to suppose that a religion's "success" is best measured by the number of adherents it can claim across the world. Historically, there has just been no contest in this category against the success of the two major monotheistic religions: Christianity and Islam.

World-historically, peoples that came into contact with Christianity in its European homeland were very often eager to embrace the religion for themselves. Actually, Islam is a distant result of the prestige of Christian monotheism as it reached into Arabia. However Mohammed, the prophet of Islam, envisioned the religion as a purification of the Roman monotheism and foretold that the destruction of the Roman Empire would be the eschatological destiny of the Muslims. For him and the early Muslims the Roman Empire was the dominant power of the age, and the Empire's claims to universal political and religious hegemony both meant that the true monotheism, Islam, necessarily had to overcome and destroy it as part of expounding the true religion, vindicating it. Pagan rulers from nations such as the Avars, the Bulgars, the Rus, or the Hungarians opted to switch directly to Christianity instead.

Nor did late-adherents to Christianity merely embrace the veneer of the religion for purely political purposes. Boris I, the Bulgarian Khan who brought Christianity to Bulgaria, asked for answers to over 100 doctrinal questions from Pope Nicholas I, many of which concerned questions of conscience and the real issue of what Christianity meant for Old Bulgarian customs and beliefs. The Rus, according to their own history, decided in the first place that they wanted a monotheism for the sake of its sacred powers - they then went shopping amongst Islam, Judaism, and Christianity for whichever one was best. Baptism for previously pagan leaders oftentimes meant changing their name to one from the Christian canon - as in the case of Istvan, the first King of Hungary.

What merits did all of these world-historical leaders perceive in monotheism, that they switched from their current faiths? Historically the Avars, the Bulgarians, the Slavs, the Hungarians - these leaders were well-positioned in relation to their urbanized neighbors and spent most of the Early Middle Ages as aggressors against the Byzantine Empire and Central Europe. They were not forced to convert against their will, like so many indigenous in America or the Pacific (even though there are some, like the Philippinos, who willingly converted). Is it that there is some intrinsic appeal to monotheism, perhaps particularly concerning the quest for authority, charisma, or truth? Or are the circumstances all-important?

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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:31 am

United Muscovite Nations wrote:
Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:Just gonna point out here that (according to what I remember from the Bible) demons can quote scripture and (according to logical conclusions drawn from their stated feats) a particularly powerful demon would most likely capable of performing every single one of Jesus' miracles.
Lucifer was God's most powerful angel, and I highly doubt that fooling a Bronze Age civilization in the middle of massive political upheaval would be beyond his abilities.

Satan cannot bring the dead back to life.

Also, Jesus didn't live in the bronze age, but that's more of a nitpick

I figure that a demon could probably possess a dead body and act like the person would have, which would appear to be resurrection to anyone who didn't know what was going on. Not likely, but also probably not impossible.
I'm not saying that Jesus was the son of Satan or anything, but I am saying that even if the Bible is an accurate retelling of the events of Jesus' life, you still can't know with 100% certainty that it tells the full story. Satan is supposed to be the best liar in the uni/multiverse, after all.

And yeah, the Bronze Age thing was my mistake. I was thinking of Moses for some reason, Jesus was definitely in the Iron Age.

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:32 am

Purpelia wrote:Monotheism has one big virtue compared to the alternatives of its age. And that's the fact that you only have to appease/sacrifice to/pray to one god and not a myriad. So if you are in the market for irrational beliefs based on unprovable tales and incredible claims without evidence its the most efficient choice.


I mean. For the most part people didn't have to appease/sacrifice/pray to the Norse gods at all.

In fact it was considered a bad thing to pray or sacrifice overmuch.
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Hanafuridake
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Postby Hanafuridake » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:34 am

Purpelia wrote:Monotheism has one big virtue compared to the alternatives of its age. And that's the fact that you only have to appease/sacrifice to/pray to one god and not a myriad. So if you are in the market for irrational beliefs based on unprovable tales and incredible claims without evidence its the most efficient choice.


Then why were several non-monotheistic religions so successful?
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Evil Dictators Happyland
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:37 am

Hanafuridake wrote:
Purpelia wrote:Monotheism has one big virtue compared to the alternatives of its age. And that's the fact that you only have to appease/sacrifice to/pray to one god and not a myriad. So if you are in the market for irrational beliefs based on unprovable tales and incredible claims without evidence its the most efficient choice.


Then why were several non-monotheistic religions so successful?

Efficiency is not always the only concern.
Besides, there is no polytheistic religion I can think of that spread to other countries to any significant degree without conquering them first. Maybe Hinduism, but I'm not even sure about that one since it doesn't seem to be especially popular outside India.

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:49 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
Then why were several non-monotheistic religions so successful?

Efficiency is not always the only concern.
Besides, there is no polytheistic religion I can think of that spread to other countries to any significant degree without conquering them first. Maybe Hinduism, but I'm not even sure about that one since it doesn't seem to be especially popular outside India.


I mean...to. Be fair, Christianity and Islam mostly spread via conquering as well.
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Hanafuridake
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Postby Hanafuridake » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:51 am

Evil Dictators Happyland wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:
Then why were several non-monotheistic religions so successful?

Efficiency is not always the only concern.
Besides, there is no polytheistic religion I can think of that spread to other countries to any significant degree without conquering them first. Maybe Hinduism, but I'm not even sure about that one since it doesn't seem to be especially popular outside India.


Hinduism, Buddhism, lots of Chinese religious practices, even a lot of Graeco-Roman cults entered the region from other places, such as Cybele's cult which came from Anatole.
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