Zoroastrianism Thread

[The Multiversal Species Alliance]

Hey guys, are there any Zoroastrians here, let’s have a discussion.
For those of you who don’t know, Zoroastrianism is a universal, monotheistic religion founded in the first millennium BCE by the Iranian prophet Zoroaster, predating all other monotheistic faiths. It invented the concepts of heaven and hell, free will, and one god. Tenets of the faith include gender equality, freedom of choice between Asha (Truth) and Druj (Deceit or Lie), charity as a means of spreading happiness, and being good for goodness’s sake without expecting a reward.

[Rojava Free State]

Well, I'm not a Zoroastrian but I am interested in all things related to ancient iran, especially the achaemenid empire. That includes Zoroastrianism

[Washington Resistance Army]

There was one active Zoro who I had many a good conversation with but I don't think he's active in NSG now. He'd also argue to the death that Zoroastrianism is polytheistic and not monotheistic.

[Panther]

There was one active Zoro who I had many a good conversation with but I don't think he's active in NSG now. He'd also argue to the death that Zoroastrianism is polytheistic and not monotheistic.

Is it not? I was always under the impression that there were two binary deities.

[Zurkerx]

There was one active Zoro who I had many a good conversation with but I don't think he's active in NSG now. He'd also argue to the death that Zoroastrianism is polytheistic and not monotheistic.

Isn't Zoroastrianism monotheistic though?

[North German Realm]

Zoroastrianism is by design not monotheistic, and it definitely didn't "invent" the concept of free will, heaven, hell, or "one god" -especially since it did not believe in nearly half of these concepts.

[The Multiversal Species Alliance]

Well, I'm not a Zoroastrian but I am interested in all things related to ancient iran, especially the achaemenid empire. That includes Zoroastrianism

The Achaemenids banned slavery for one, they also instituted religious tolerance, one of the first empires to do so. They threw the word truth around like modern Americans throw around the word freedom, lying was actually illegal, their religion demanded it.

[Washington Resistance Army]

There was one active Zoro who I had many a good conversation with but I don't think he's active in NSG now. He'd also argue to the death that Zoroastrianism is polytheistic and not monotheistic.

Isn't Zoroastrianism monotheistic though?

Not from the way he described it. There is a chief deity for sure, but off the top of my head I can think of several others. Ahura Mazda, Angra Mainyu, Mithra, Zurvan etc etc.

[Zurkerx]

Isn't Zoroastrianism monotheistic though?

Not from the way he described it. There is a chief deity for sure, but off the top of my head I can think of several others. Ahura Mazda, Angra Mainyu, Mithra, Zurvan etc etc.

There is a supreme deity, that I know but I'm pretty sure the names you listed are this deity's "arch-angels", like how in Christianity they have Michael and Gabriel. Like, I've been researching the religion since I'm writing a third book (can't believe I wrote two already!) and it's described as a monotheistic religion. Not the most reliable but Wikipedia has a lot of information on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

[Chestaan]

Are there many Zorastrians still around? Like population wise

[North German Realm]

Not from the way he described it. There is a chief deity for sure, but off the top of my head I can think of several others. Ahura Mazda, Angra Mainyu, Mithra, Zurvan etc etc.

There is a supreme deity, that I know but I'm pretty sure the names you listed are this deity's "arch-angels", like how in Christianity they have Michael and Gabriel. Like, I've been researching the religion since I'm writing a third book (can't believe I wrote two already!) and it's described as a monotheistic religion. Not the most reliable but Wikipedia has a lot of information on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

No. Mithras was not Uhrmazd (Ahura Mazda)'s "archangel". Angra Mainyu -the chief """""evil""""" god of the pantheon- was certainly not one of Uhrmazd's archangels. Zurvan (who is the chief god of a Zoroastrian heresy/sub-religion and more of a concept than a god in the first place- was not one of Uhrmazd's archangels. Zoroastrianism was not monotheist. It was forced to pretend to be so under threat of the sword by the Muslims.

[North German Realm]

Are there many Zorastrians still around? Like population wise

Like less than 200,000 people in total.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Are there many Zorastrians still around? Like population wise

Like less than 200,000 people in total.

I could have sworn I heard it was growing, albeit slowly, in Iran again. Any idea if that's true or not?

[North German Realm]

Like less than 200,000 people in total.

I could have sworn I heard it was growing, albeit slowly, in Iran again. Any idea if that's true or not?

I can't answer you for certain, because it's complicated. Zoroastrian aesthetics (putting Far-va-Har symbols on your car as a sticker or on you as a tattoo or necklace or whatever; picking "Zoroastrian names", taking Avestan so you can learn the religion, etc.) is something that's rising, and Zoroastrianism has become a point of "opposition" against the Islamic Occupation... but that's not "being Zoroastrian". That's using Zoroastrian symbology for a political motive. I can't say how many of these types of people are taking to Zoroastrianism and how many are just doing it because the IR hates it.

[Zurkerx]

There is a supreme deity, that I know but I'm pretty sure the names you listed are this deity's "arch-angels", like how in Christianity they have Michael and Gabriel. Like, I've been researching the religion since I'm writing a third book (can't believe I wrote two already!) and it's described as a monotheistic religion. Not the most reliable but Wikipedia has a lot of information on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism

No. Mithras was not Uhrmazd (Ahura Mazda)'s "archangel". Angra Mainyu -the chief """""evil""""" god of the pantheon- was certainly not one of Uhrmazd's archangels. Zurvan (who is the chief god of a Zoroastrian heresy/sub-religion and more of a concept than a god in the first place- was not one of Uhrmazd's archangels. Zoroastrianism was not monotheist. It was forced to pretend to be so under threat of the sword by the Muslims.

My apologies on the arch-angel part, there's a lot of names to remember, you know. However, it seems the religion is classified as monotheistic but eh, I can see how people think it's a poly one.

[North German Realm]

No. Mithras was not Uhrmazd (Ahura Mazda)'s "archangel". Angra Mainyu -the chief """""evil""""" god of the pantheon- was certainly not one of Uhrmazd's archangels. Zurvan (who is the chief god of a Zoroastrian heresy/sub-religion and more of a concept than a god in the first place- was not one of Uhrmazd's archangels. Zoroastrianism was not monotheist. It was forced to pretend to be so under threat of the sword by the Muslims.

My apologies on the arch-angel part, there's a lot of names to remember, you know. However, it seems the religion is classified as monotheistic but eh, I can see how people think it's a poly one.

The religion has always been a "poly one", and I can't even see why people think a religion that's built, entirely, around the concept of an eternal war between chaos and order is "monotheistic".

[Washington Resistance Army]

My apologies on the arch-angel part, there's a lot of names to remember, you know. However, it seems the religion is classified as monotheistic but eh, I can see how people think it's a poly one.

The religion has always been a "poly one", and I can't even see why people think a religion that's built, entirely, around the concept of an eternal war between chaos and order is "monotheistic".

At least in my experience a good deal of it originated with atheists who wanted to believe that older cults and religions did everything Christianity did first and thus it's false as a result.

The Greco-Roman Mithraic cult is subject to this a lot, even though a ton of the surviving imagery shows Mithras with other deities ie Sol/Helios some have insisted it was monotheistic and all of Jesus' feats were just knock offs of Mithas which is a big thonk.

[Rojava Free State]

There was one active Zoro who I had many a good conversation with but I don't think he's active in NSG now. He'd also argue to the death that Zoroastrianism is polytheistic and not monotheistic.

Is it not? I was always under the impression that there were two binary deities.

That makes it no more polytheostic than christianity. In zoroastrianism, there's God and then there's their version of the devil, angra mainyu. You're only supposed to worship god, so it isn't polytheism.

[Chan Island]

Ah, Zoroastrianism. That one religion that brings up the problem of evil's spotty red headed stepbrother, the problem of order. Always wanted to debate one in person just to see how it goes.

[Cannot think of a name]

Just for shits and giggles I thought I'd seek out actual Zorastrians and see how they characterized their religion. Crazy as that might seem...

So this is the summary of their religion and its history on the World Zoroastrian Organization.

I'm sure there are some colorful reasons why they don't know what they're talking about.

Zoroaster’s message is preserved in the Gathas, a body of 225 verses dispersed over 17 Yasnas composed in an ancient Iranian language.

What made Zoroaster's ideas radical was firstly his revelation that there was one creator, Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord, at a time when it was commonplace to worship the numerous natural elements as gods in their own right.

His understanding of life was based on his realisation that all the manifestations of creation had to come ultimately from one all-powerful energy - God or the Self-Creator.

His originality is further seen in his injunction found in the Gathas, that those who are listening should use their free will to choose their own path, that of good or that of evil.

In this injunction are two fundamental ideas: free will and individual responsibility for one's own actions; and the concepts of good and evil.

Good and evil are understood as realities encountered in the inner mind - the conscience - that appear to operate as twin energies, equally present and both exerting a pull over us.

Zoroaster's message is basically that we should be aware of the struggle which these two forces engage us in and know the consequences of following one rather than the other.

We are told that to follow the path of "Asha", (good order, harmony, truth, summarized by purity in thought, word and deed) will lead to happiness ("ushta") for both ourselves and others.

The alternative choice of deceit, lies and unkindness, namely, impurity of thought, word and deed, will lead to unhappiness, enmity and war.

Thus Zoroastrians are engaged in an internalized struggle of ethical dualism.

Prior to the philosophy of Zoroaster, entities such as Mehr, Hom, Verahram, parallels of which were found in Vedic texts were venerated.

Although there is no mention of these in the text attributed to Zoroaster, it is believed that this ancient tradition survived and merged with Zoroastrianism so that they re-acquire their earlier prominent positions in the religious recitations by priests and lay people.

A reflection of this is found in the name of Dar (b)e Mehr which in Farsi denotes the temple.

Zoroastrianism has had an impact that is rarely realised in the Judaeo-Christian world through its contribution to the concepts of heaven and hell deriving from its ethical dualism.

Associated with this was the concept of the Day of Judgement, at which point, on the third day/fourth night after death, the soul crossed a bridge, Pol e Chinvat, on which its good deeds were weighed against its bad deeds.

The outcome of this balance determined whether one would pass through to the abode of eternal light and happiness/the house of everlasting song or be plunged off the bridge into an eternal limbo.

These concepts developed gradually over one thousand years after the teachings of Zoroaster, and not surprisingly, they underwent interpretations and consequent distortions.

Ohrmazd (Ahura Mazda), God, was conflated with Good Thinking, Spenta Mainyo, and wrongly counterpoised with Bad Thinking, Ahriman (Angra Mainyo).

In other words, God was set erroneously in opposition to the Devil.

Nevertheless, under the Sassanians, who promoted the clergy’s power, this much more rigid dualism was what the orthodoxy propounded.

To understand the implications of this, we need only think that almost as much time separated the late Sassanians from the original message of Zoroaster, as today the Christian message is separated from its original proponent, Jesus.

In both traditions, the interpretation of the ideas and philosophy have undergone dramatic changes.

Thus just before the Arab conquest in the 7th century CE much knowledge had been distorted, reinvented or lost, so when the fugitives who became known as Parsees left Iran at a time of turmoil, the knowledge which they had at the time and which they sought to preserve was not necessarily "correct" or authentic.

Meanwhile, the Iranians who did not convert to Islam, mainly humble people and priests, struggled in the face of intense persecution to maintain their traditions and the spirit of their religious faith, which did not need texts but had permeated their lifestyles and outlook.

They also have a groovy bit about prayers and the importance of fire including a grounded reasoning for it (pre-electricity in early civilizations keeping a fire going was pretty valuable, making a church that has one going the whole time a valuable center for the community). Cool read.

Also a cool bit on the diaspora.

Most of the other Zoroastrian websites are for people who are already Zoroastrians and don't contain a breakdown of their beliefs other than, you know, lets do some good shit.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I looked this shit up in paper books when I was in high school because it had an awesome theme song. (did you just learn that it was longer than a minute and forty seconds? Then I accomplished at least something. I'm sure some of you already knew.)

[Cappuccina]

My apologies on the arch-angel part, there's a lot of names to remember, you know. However, it seems the religion is classified as monotheistic but eh, I can see how people think it's a poly one.

The religion has always been a "poly one", and I can't even see why people think a religion that's built, entirely, around the concept of an eternal war between chaos and order is "monotheistic".

I personally wouldn't consider Zoroastrianism/Mazdayasna to be polytheistic necessarily, Ohrmazd is their supreme deity and superior in power to Ahriman (whom is not worshipped). Though there are lesser beings that are exhalted.

[North German Realm]

The religion has always been a "poly one", and I can't even see why people think a religion that's built, entirely, around the concept of an eternal war between chaos and order is "monotheistic".

I personally wouldn't consider Zoroastrianism/Mazdayasna to be polytheistic necessarily, Ohrmazd is their supreme deity and superior in power to Ahriman (whom is not worshipped). Though there are lesser beings that are exhalted.

There are two Chief, equally powerful gods each with their own pantheon of lesser deities, with pretty well-defined spheres of influence, so to speak. That makes it polytheistic. That people only worship one of the two chief-gods doesn't come into it.

Is it not? I was always under the impression that there were two binary deities.

That makes it no more polytheostic than christianity. In zoroastrianism, there's God and then there's their version of the devil, angra mainyu. You're only supposed to worship god, so it isn't polytheism.

Christianity is monotheistic specifically because there is no power balance between the "gods". Satan -or whatever- is created by god and does not act outside god's will (because nothing does). Zoroastrianism is not like that.

[New haven america]

There was one active Zoro who I had many a good conversation with but I don't think he's active in NSG now. He'd also argue to the death that Zoroastrianism is polytheistic and not monotheistic.

Is it not? I was always under the impression that there were two binary deities.

They're not.

Ahura Mazda is the one and only God of Zoroastrianism, while Angra Mainu, is more of an ethereal being or concept created by the negative thoughts and emotions of humanity.

[Cappuccina]

I personally wouldn't consider Zoroastrianism/Mazdayasna to be polytheistic necessarily, Ohrmazd is their supreme deity and superior in power to Ahriman (whom is not worshipped). Though there are lesser beings that are exhalted.

There are two Chief, equally powerful gods each with their own pantheon of lesser deities, with pretty well-defined spheres of influence, so to speak. That makes it polytheistic. That people only worship one of the two chief-gods doesn't come into it.

That makes it no more polytheostic than christianity. In zoroastrianism, there's God and then there's their version of the devil, angra mainyu. You're only supposed to worship god, so it isn't polytheism.

Christianity is monotheistic specifically because there is no power balance between the "gods". Satan -or whatever- is created by god and does not act outside god's will (because nothing does). Zoroastrianism is not like that.

Ahriman is not Ohrmazd's equal in Zoroastrianism, lest it wouldn't be possible for "truth to overcome the lie" as it is prophesied in their religion. It is similar, but not the same as the dynamic between God (swt) and Shaitan in Islam and Christianity. Infact, Ohrmazd created Ahriman, along with Spenta Mainyu (though the latter is often though of in terms similar to the Christian "holy ghost").

[Ayytaly]

Is it true their priests shave your private parts' hair off, or was that line from Dr. Evil purely hyperbole?