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OOC Thread for The Labrador Valley War

A staging-point for declarations of war and other major diplomatic events. [In character]
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Mount Zeon
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Founded: Oct 23, 2018
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OOC Thread for The Labrador Valley War

Postby Mount Zeon » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:32 am



I realized that having prospective and accepted members of the RP talk via Telegrams meant that there was a risk that not everyone was on the same page, so an OOC thread where we could all talk together was necessary. This will also be where anyone who wants to join the RP can ask.

I'd like if everyone who's currently involved or has discussed getting involved with myself or Muskegonia to post here with just a quick summary of what they're doing or planning on doing in the RP, just so everyone is aware of all the different narrative threads and can suggest ways that threads might cross each other.

Active Players

Mount Zeon Aligned:
Allanea - members of the John Brown Society have arrived in the Valley to fight slavers
Auman - Aumanii Frontier Mounter Police will train and assist the civilian Associators (not yet posted)
Vangaziland - economic/military aid and special forces to conduct anti-slavery operations against Muskegonia
The United Nations of Europa - economic/military aid and special forces to conduct anti-slavery operations against Muskegonia

Muskegonia Aligned:
Drekka - sending military aid to protect Muskegonia from Amistad Pact aggression
Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic - diplomatic and economic support

Non-Aligned:
The Union of British North America - intelligence agents are active in the Valley tracking down Sons of Liberty involvement

Current Narrative Trajectory: I’ll let Muskegonia talk about how they see this RP affecting their own nation, but generally the current shape of the narrative is thus: the back-and-forth violence in the Valley will continue for some time. An idea that has been discussed is keeping the violence at the Bleeding Kansas level for the rest of the year (the RP year, not the RL year), and then having the war itself declared in the spring. The fighting in that war will mostly be confined to operations in the Valley and the initiative will swing back and forth between the two sides. My hope is to use the RP to show how Mount Zeon’s society responds to being at war.

How to get involved:

Post on this thread with how and why your nation wants to be involved. There should be a compelling reason: right now, this conflict is very small in scale and both the nations involved are both small and internationally isolated. We also want to avoid massive escalation, so if you want to use military force please keep it limited and realistic: no foreign nation should care about this war enough to send an Army Group or a massive fleet. There is room for involvement that is not supportive of either side: character-level RP is welcome, as long as there’s a good idea behind it. Feel free to ask questions!

If you're one of those people who loves forms, here's a short one:
Nation Name:
How do you want to get involved:
Why is your nation getting involved:

Notes on Mount Zeon: This is for current and prospective participants to get an understanding of my nation. Muskegonia will post one as well. The Kingdom of Mount Zeon is a theocratic dictatorship ruled by the descendants of Robert Matthews, who claimed to have been enlightened by God, proclaimed himself the Prophet Matthias, and led a bloody Revolution that overthrew the old secular government. The Kingdom is organized along Matthias’ interpretation of Christian scripture. Its dominant feature is the idea of masculine supremacy. Women are expected to be totally submissive to their husbands. They have no political rights and once married they are expected to tend the home and care for children. The society is mostly agrarian, and practices a form of pseudo-communist collectivism where surplus crops are taken by the state as tithes and redistributed to prevent men from holding economic domination over one another. This is also the reason the nation’s industrial base is underdeveloped. Until recently, Mount Zeon practiced a system of forced labor for convicted criminals, but this was abolished after a massive (and Allanean inspired) gulag uprising. The Kingdom’s harsh political repression and awful human rights record has led to its isolation on the world stage, but it maintains some trade relations where it exchanges agricultural products for manufactured goods.
Last edited by Mount Zeon on Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:25 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Mount Zeon sounds very much like somewhere I'd like to avoid like the plague
Mount Zeon: is it the farming
---
New Edom: Mount Zeon is a nation of ass men
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Oh good God, how many of you people are there in this region?
---
Novitera: What expensive but low volume goods come out of Mount Zeon?
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Wives

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The Union of British North America
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Founded: Sep 03, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Union of British North America » Thu Sep 19, 2019 7:58 pm

I would like to point out that I am also a signatory to the Amistad Declaration, and anti-slavery operations conducted by the Service of Strategic Information (SSI, my foreign intelligence service) are forthcoming in later operations. I have two missions in Labrador Valley mission: one specific and one enduring. The specific one regarding the Sons of Liberty and their connection to the slavers of Muskegonia, and a broad HUMINT-covert action-foreign internal defense operation against the slavers of Muskegonia.
An alt-history version of an America that peacefully avoided the American Revolution and remained connected to Britain (Turtledove's "The Two Georges"), mixed with some of Sobel's "For Want of a Nail" and a lot of the anthology "Columbia and Britannia".

Tech level: MT+
IC/RP name: North American Union (NAU).
IC/RP main supranational IGO: United British Commonwealth of Nations.
NSverse organization member/agreement signatory: CAPINTERN, IFTC, ICDN, ECO, IBA, Amistad.

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Muskegonia
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Founded: Aug 19, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Muskegonia » Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:41 am

Current Narrative Trajectory: As Mount Zeon said, there will be raiding and attacks for a while. The big ending will be an attack by the Cougars on the farm that Allanea’s John Brown Society is using as a base. If we’re extending the pre-war period, maybe this happens during the winter. Then the actual war will break out. Right now I think the plan is to end the war with the status quo. The next RP I want to do is an uprising/civil war in my nation, so one thing I want to do is show cracks in the government. Inviting in foreign troops to help will strain relations between the President and the Senate which will become important later.

Notes on Muskegonia: Muskegonia is a slave state. The slavery system is modeled on the antebellum South in the United States, so its based on race and heredity. There are almost no free people of color in the nation, since it is hard for an individual to free slaves or for free POC to immigrate into the nation. Not that they would want to anyway because the society is steeped in white supremacy. Muskegonia is also isolated because of maintaining slavery. It is also dependent on agricultural exports, but it has a larger manufacturing sector in the cities. The countryside is the antebellum South, while the cities are more like the Gilded Age North.

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Mount Zeon
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Founded: Oct 23, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Mount Zeon » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:00 pm

Couple of things: first, this post marks the official naming of my national militia as "the Fencibles," to differentiate the full-time semi-professional militia from the unofficial one that Allanea's people are working with.

Second, it's intended to be the beginning of the Battle of Cumberly Farm: Muskegonia will send more Whitetail Cougars to attack the farm again, and they'll fight against a gathered force of Associators. Other people can get involved in whatever ways they can think of - presumably the John Brown Society members will make an appearance.
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Mount Zeon sounds very much like somewhere I'd like to avoid like the plague
Mount Zeon: is it the farming
---
New Edom: Mount Zeon is a nation of ass men
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Oh good God, how many of you people are there in this region?
---
Novitera: What expensive but low volume goods come out of Mount Zeon?
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Wives

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Vangaziland
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Founded: May 20, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vangaziland » Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:27 pm

Vangaziland - Looking to support anti-slavery operations

I really like the long term escalation and limited conflict that's developing here. This nation has been staunchly anti-slavery going back centuries. Vannish privateers fought throughout the mid 1700s and into the 1800s in operations based around harassing slavery operations. Our timeline factbook shows a conflict fought in our African territory of New Gazi in support of anti-colonial operations in the region. A colony formed through peace and fair trade, by the way..

The factbook also shows the First & Second Native Wars. The Vannish have fought to protect the sovereignty of a native population on the western edge of our Mainland's continent twice against foreign colonials.

Vangaziland is also the nation that goes after racial intolerance so heavily that they authorize military force to break up armed hate groups... Including fixed wing air support.

The Vannish hope to start some type of shadow operation. Perhaps we can send units to also train the civilian associates. I'm assuming that means helping to develop an indigenous force. It could make for good RP to coordinate with those set to do a similar role. Auman, I see?

Our SF team will focus on developing local artillery and air support skills. The Vannish will hope to sneak in indirect fire weapons for starters. 60mm to 120mm mortars at the least. I'd like to get 155mm in theater, but that might be harder to scoot and shoot unless we outright ship in 'self propelled howitzers - wheeled', which is really more complex than shipping in 120mm tubes and welding them to truck beds.

I can send links for prior operations. My factbooks have a great deal of info including an Order of Battle. I'm expecting a limited role and am okay with things going either way for the operatives. I'll have to go over a list of equipment. I'm also looking over the ORBAT to see which team fits this best. I'll also bring a small tier 1 team that can help out with joint operations, but will mostly lay low.

We can also look into supporting logistics in the region through different sorts of assets. This could range from bringing a submarine into the area or running aircraft from any nearby nations to range from transport to patrol.
Last edited by Vangaziland on Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mount Zeon
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Founded: Oct 23, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Mount Zeon » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:31 pm

Checking out your nation’s Factbooks, it seems like you’re pretty militantly left. Mount Zeon is a very conservative State and society, with virtually no political rights for anyone and very limited civil rights for women.

So what’s the reason that Vangaziland is getting involved to support Mount Zeon, and why would Mount Zeon have an incentive to accept aid from a nation whose society is very different from ours?

This isn’t a hard no from me, I just want to think through more of the details.
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Mount Zeon sounds very much like somewhere I'd like to avoid like the plague
Mount Zeon: is it the farming
---
New Edom: Mount Zeon is a nation of ass men
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Oh good God, how many of you people are there in this region?
---
Novitera: What expensive but low volume goods come out of Mount Zeon?
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Wives

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Vangaziland
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Founded: May 20, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vangaziland » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:58 pm

That's fair enough. If Mt. Zeon is still against slavery, the Vannish aren’t there to make judgements on that nation. The Vannish don’t believe in intervening on ideological differences. They could surely issue statements or diplomatic missives aimed towards urging policy change. But they wouldn’t see the right wing as an enemy. In some ways the Vannish left is quite militant and really centrist.

Perhaps the right communique could be passed to clarify Vannish interests IC. If nothing else, working with a different type of nation could be good for the Vannish.

The Vannish are also prepared to offer other support that could be beneficial. Maybe even economic, especially if it could be shown how the investment of said funds will help pay for anti-slavery operations.

Vangaziland pays with cash.

Edit: After reading specifics of religion in your nation, I dont see anything that would stop us from battling slavery together or even preaching too much diplomacy against the way of life there.
Last edited by Vangaziland on Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:40 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic
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Founded: Sep 20, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:45 pm

/Tag.
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I do not use NS stats.

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The United Nations Of Europa
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Founded: Jul 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Nations Of Europa » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:54 pm

The United Nations of Europa- Looking to support anti-slavery operations

The United Nations of Europa(U.N.E) has been recently involved in peacekeeping and establishing diplomatic relations around the world. Although our views within our society are different, we would like to help if it means we could help curb slavery within Muskegonia. We would also be willing to help train Zeonese troops and possibly supply weapons approved by commissions within the UNE. Our leader, Chancellor Linda Schulte would also like to discuss diplomatic activity between our nations and could discuss matters such as diplomatic relations and economic relations. The UNE's main terms of agreement would be diplomatic talks between leaders and the ability for the UNE to set up a refugee program to bring in rescued slaves into the UNE.

Here's a link to an RP I run if you want proof of RP activity
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=427993
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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:27 am

Well. Muskegonia stated he agrees to take damage as long as I portrayed his soldiers as competent, so I wrote them as competent as mine would be, and of course refinery workers are badasses IRL so...
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Newark Aristocracy
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Founded: Nov 10, 2018
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Postby Newark Aristocracy » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:24 pm

Nation Name: Newark Aristocracy
How do you want to get involved: Direct Military Deployment
Why is your nation getting involved:To support anti slaver ops,and find and destroy the top players of the local slave trade. (refers to map area)

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Muskegonia
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Founded: Aug 19, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Muskegonia » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:16 pm

Allanea wrote:Well. Muskegonia stated he agrees to take damage as long as I portrayed his soldiers as competent, so I wrote them as competent as mine would be, and of course refinery workers are badasses IRL so...

Those poor brave men... :(
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The United Nations Of Europa wrote:The United Nations of Europa- Looking to support anti-slavery operations

Vangaziland wrote:Vangaziland - Looking to support anti-slavery operations

I'm fine with more people getting involved, but I do want to say that I don't want this to shift the focus too much - I appreciate Allanea keeping their anti-slavery work both non-government (with one explosive exception) and worked into the context of the fight for the Valley. I don't want to end this RP with any massive changes to my society. I do have some long-term plans for those changes, but this RP will just lay some ground work.

I also would prefer if we kept the firepower being used in the Valley at this minor level - right now the fighting is just farmer's shooting at each other, the Cougars have automatic weapons but no other official government support. Now once the actual war starts spec-ops teams could definitely play a big role.

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Mount Zeon
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Founded: Oct 23, 2018
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Postby Mount Zeon » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:41 pm

Newark Aristocracy wrote:Nation Name: Newark Aristocracy
How do you want to get involved: Direct Military Deployment
Why is your nation getting involved:To support anti slaver ops,and find and destroy the top players of the local slave trade. (refers to map area)

I've seen your other work on the forums, so I'm going to use my totally formal "senior OP" power and just outright say "no, thank you."

Muskegonia wrote:
Allanea wrote:Well. Muskegonia stated he agrees to take damage as long as I portrayed his soldiers as competent, so I wrote them as competent as mine would be, and of course refinery workers are badasses IRL so...

Those poor brave men... :(
Press F to Pay Respects

The United Nations Of Europa wrote:The United Nations of Europa- Looking to support anti-slavery operations

Vangaziland wrote:Vangaziland - Looking to support anti-slavery operations

I'm fine with more people getting involved, but I do want to say that I don't want this to shift the focus too much - I appreciate Allanea keeping their anti-slavery work both non-government (with one explosive exception) and worked into the context of the fight for the Valley. I don't want to end this RP with any massive changes to my society. I do have some long-term plans for those changes, but this RP will just lay some ground work.

I also would prefer if we kept the firepower being used in the Valley at this minor level - right now the fighting is just farmer's shooting at each other, the Cougars have automatic weapons but no other official government support. Now once the actual war starts spec-ops teams could definitely play a big role.

Well at least it was only two refineries and not an entire port

I'd like to echo Muskegonia's sentiment. Not only because I don't want this to become a horribly unbalanced dog-pile against a newer player, but also because I'd like people to think a bit more about the other half of the equation. Allanea has some prior history with Mount Zeon - do other nations really have a big incentive to get involved on an official level with a pretty odious (by a Western human rights standard at least) regime just because they happen to be fighting a slave state? Mount Zeon is not really an active anti-slavery nation: the Church condemns racial slavery on moral grounds but Muskegonia's use of slave labor isn't really something my government cares about, so offers of "anti-slavery support" aren't going to strike any kind of ideological chord.

Vangaziland wrote:That's fair enough. If Mt. Zeon is still against slavery, the Vannish aren’t there to make judgements on that nation. The Vannish don’t believe in intervening on ideological differences. They could surely issue statements or diplomatic missives aimed towards urging policy change. But they wouldn’t see the right wing as an enemy. In some ways the Vannish left is quite militant and really centrist.

Perhaps the right communique could be passed to clarify Vannish interests IC. If nothing else, working with a different type of nation could be good for the Vannish.

The Vannish are also prepared to offer other support that could be beneficial. Maybe even economic, especially if it could be shown how the investment of said funds will help pay for anti-slavery operations.

Vangaziland pays with cash.

Edit: After reading specifics of religion in your nation, I dont see anything that would stop us from battling slavery together or even preaching too much diplomacy against the way of life there.

Perhaps we could open with economic support which opens the door to more military involvement later on? Or your special forces could try and operate without the formal sanction of the Mount Zeon government.

The United Nations Of Europa wrote:The United Nations of Europa- Looking to support anti-slavery operations

The United Nations of Europa(U.N.E) has been recently involved in peacekeeping and establishing diplomatic relations around the world. Although our views within our society are different, we would like to help if it means we could help curb slavery within Muskegonia. We would also be willing to help train Zeonese troops and possibly supply weapons approved by commissions within the UNE. Our leader, Chancellor Linda Schulte would also like to discuss diplomatic activity between our nations and could discuss matters such as diplomatic relations and economic relations. The UNE's main terms of agreement would be diplomatic talks between leaders and the ability for the UNE to set up a refugee program to bring in rescued slaves into the UNE.

Now there's some interesting RP potential here, mainly because IC my nation's government would be totally unwilling to do business with a woman leader. But I do like the idea of having talks even though I don't think they would actually accomplish anything IC. Maybe the UNE could get involved via non-government organizations trying to provide aid (and running into some serious culture shock)?

I hope I'm not coming off as difficult or obstructive, that's not my intention. I do want both of you to be part of the story. I just think there's better ways to justify getting involved in this particular conflict beyond "my government wants to fight slavery" and I think the RP will be better if we explore them here first.
Last edited by Mount Zeon on Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Mount Zeon sounds very much like somewhere I'd like to avoid like the plague
Mount Zeon: is it the farming
---
New Edom: Mount Zeon is a nation of ass men
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Oh good God, how many of you people are there in this region?
---
Novitera: What expensive but low volume goods come out of Mount Zeon?
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Wives

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Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic
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Founded: Sep 20, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:47 pm

Best regards.

The Socialist Democratic Republic of Argentina supports the peace to both sides, but the isolationism of Mount Zeon and Muskegonia limits the action options of the President Dutsher (who thinks that a good way to overcome the national crisis is setting new markets and attracting immigrants to Argentina, speccially if the inmigrants has experience in the agriculture). Also any of the two nations has an embassy with the SDRA, this make hard the communication with both nations.

But nevertheless Moskegonia seems be the only possibility of the SDRA to demonstrate the peaceful and rapprochement intentions of the Dutsher government, because Mount Zeon is an ultra-radical Theocratic Dictatorship and deeply patriarchal and i m sure that descendants of Robert Matthews wants to be as far away as possible from a country whose president is a woman.

It seemed me impolite to publish in the IC without notifyi on the OOC previously. This reasons are enough to participate in the RP as a nation that try to help Moskegonia?
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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:46 pm

I'd like to echo Muskegonia's sentiment. Not only because I don't want this to become a horribly unbalanced dog-pile against a newer player, but also because I'd like people to think a bit more about the other half of the equation. Allanea has some prior history with Mount Zeon - do other nations really have a big incentive to get involved on an official level with a pretty odious (by a Western human rights standard at least) regime just because they happen to be fighting a slave state? Mount Zeon is not really an active anti-slavery nation: the Church condemns racial slavery on moral grounds but Muskegonia's use of slave labor isn't really something my government cares about, so offers of "anti-slavery support" aren't going to strike any kind of ideological chord.


Just to put my own two cents in, I think that there's a whole bunch of nations on NS that have a history of consistent or semi-consistent anti-slavery operations, me being obviously fairly famous but mainly because I am a very active poster. So I think there are quite a few nations for whom "aiding the anti-slavery side" is a serious motivation.

Another thing to consider here is the issue of proportionality. It would be quite disproportional, in my mind, to deploy tens of thousands of troops to crush the Muskegonians. But I think it's fully within proportion to the events for an anti-slaver nation to send a small amount of soldiers or spies to carry out some action to aid Mount Zeon.

I don't think there's anyone unaware that Mount Zeon is a... dubious place at best, but many nations in NS (not just mine!) regard slavery as being as a point of no return ethically.

Another thing is that at least my nation IC hopes (perhaps my nation is IC wrong! Probably, in fact!) that it may use its influence to cause some slight improvements in Mount Zeon... or at least some Zeonese might be able to use the presence of Allaneans in the area to perhaps board Allanean cargo planes to Allanea, or something in that vein.
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Muskegonia
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Founded: Aug 19, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Muskegonia » Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:59 pm

Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic wrote:Best regards.

The Socialist Democratic Republic of Argentina supports the peace to both sides, but the isolationism of Mount Zeon and Muskegonia limits the action options of the President Dutsher (who thinks that a good way to overcome the national crisis is setting new markets and attracting immigrants to Argentina, speccially if the inmigrants has experience in the agriculture). Also any of the two nations has an embassy with the SDRA, this make hard the communication with both nations.

But nevertheless Moskegonia seems be the only possibility of the SDRA to demonstrate the peaceful and rapprochement intentions of the Dutsher government, because Mount Zeon is an ultra-radical Theocratic Dictatorship and deeply patriarchal and i m sure that descendants of Robert Matthews wants to be as far away as possible from a country whose president is a woman.

It seemed me impolite to publish in the IC without notifyi on the OOC previously. This reasons are enough to participate in the RP as a nation that try to help Moskegonia?

I don't really understand what sort of help you're offering - can you explain more?

Allanea wrote:Another thing to consider here is the issue of proportionality. It would be quite disproportional, in my mind, to deploy tens of thousands of troops to crush the Muskegonians. But I think it's fully within proportion to the events for an anti-slaver nation to send a small amount of soldiers or spies to carry out some action to aid Mount Zeon.

I'm also fine with having special forces or spies roaming around, especially once the real war begins. I just want to make sure it stays connected to the dispute in the Valley instead of turning into a wholly separate story.

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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:08 pm

To be clear, Allanea is under no illusion that it's in any way likely that the dispute currently ongoing will directly end slavery in Muskegonia (although if it begins to escalate somehow into a full-tilt war of national survival between the two countries the Allaneans would certainly rejoice if Muskegonia loses).

Substantially, however, Allanea operates under what it IC calls a "cost imposition doctrine". [OOCly, this is a premise for me to be involved in RPs where an actual favorable outcome is not really feasible, or not desirable for plot reasons). Namely, the Allaneans believe that in situations where a slaveowning society can't be overthrown in the short term, they will utilize underhanded trickery, sabotage, terrorism, and limited military action to "impose costs" on that society, or in other words, "yeah, they're probably going to win, but this time it's going to cost them something". The belief is that this imposes costs on the slaveowning economy and hastens its demise, and of course also a pure Allanean spitefulness.

The original objective Allaneans had in the Parina-Mount Zeon RP was "let's start a slave rebellion to weaken Mount Zeon in its was with Parina, and if we can evacuate some slaves from Mount Zeon the better". This was the reverse of the situation here, in terms of the fact that Mount Zeon was a theocratic slaveowning society, with Parina only marginally better, and Allanea deciding to support Parina purely on the well at least they don't have slavery grounds. The fact that this lead to abolition of slavery later on is a totally different story and wasn't really something I was expecting OOC.
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Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic
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Postby Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic » Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:24 pm

Muskegonia wrote:I don't really understand what sort of help you're offering - can you explain more?


When i say "Help" I mean trying to bring the SDRA closer to Muskegonia diplomatically, which would have consequences in this small conflict (which would favor Muskegonia, since in the case that good diplomatic relations are established, the SDRA would provide support to Muskegonia).

This has the objective of generating a positive influence on Muskegonia and fulfilling the objectives of President Dutsher regarding the foreign policy of the SDRA. Give a good image is important for her to be able to attract immigrants, although this can have negative consequences for a Pro-slavery country.

In addition, President Dutsher does not approve of slavery but believes that it is worse to combat it with military force, so the intentions of the SDRA also include fighting pro-slavery in a peaceful manner. Also this intention to relate diplomatically hides the ambition of the SDRA to gain greater international importance. This diplomatic relationship also aims to maintain a stable government and avoid rebellions or violent revolutions.
Last edited by Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic on Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Vangaziland
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Postby Vangaziland » Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:16 pm

The point of our anti slavery focus is not to win you over. You asked why my nation would be involved. That’s why. Regardless of how your nation feels about it. As far as investments, it would have to be clear that the funds would be going towards operations that affected anti-slavery in general. Regardless of the dispute in the valley. It’s beyond one nation and politics.

Vangaziland is not offering free aid in the hopes of winning Mt. Zeon over. We do run the Order of the Purple Cross which I’ll edit the link to. It is a multinational NGO that has done limited RP in the past.

I could focus on the NGO and potentially have agents there. We have no interest in sneaking teams in your border because that’s hostile and we have no hostile stance towards your nation... Even if you don’t trust us. We basically aren’t heel toeing to your politics. The offer of aid is there and it is clear. I understand your angle, now understand mine. This isn’t my first rodeo.

As far as concerns on keeping things small scale, I understand. I have no desire to bring in major assets or hardware. As I said, the team would barely get involved. I can also understand that it benefits Muskegonia to keep Mt. Zeon equipped with hunting rifles against their automatics. It would not be unrealistic or off key to assist the Zeonese into developing by the time the war starts. The team’s deployment obviously doesn’t have to be immediate and starting with economic investments sounds right, given the stipulations.

Order of the Purple Cross NGO: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=324932
Last edited by Vangaziland on Thu Sep 26, 2019 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Newark Aristocracy
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Founded: Nov 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Newark Aristocracy » Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:41 am

Mount Zeon wrote:
Newark Aristocracy wrote:Nation Name: Newark Aristocracy
How do you want to get involved: Direct Military Deployment
Why is your nation getting involved:To support anti slaver ops,and find and destroy the top players of the local slave trade. (refers to map area)

I've seen your other work on the forums, so I'm going to use my totally formal "senior OP" power and just outright say "no, thank you."

Muskegonia wrote:Those poor brave men... :(
Press F to Pay Respects



I'm fine with more people getting involved, but I do want to say that I don't want this to shift the focus too much - I appreciate Allanea keeping their anti-slavery work both non-government (with one explosive exception) and worked into the context of the fight for the Valley. I don't want to end this RP with any massive changes to my society. I do have some long-term plans for those changes, but this RP will just lay some ground work.

I also would prefer if we kept the firepower being used in the Valley at this minor level - right now the fighting is just farmer's shooting at each other, the Cougars have automatic weapons but no other official government support. Now once the actual war starts spec-ops teams could definitely play a big role.

Well at least it was only two refineries and not an entire port

I'd like to echo Muskegonia's sentiment. Not only because I don't want this to become a horribly unbalanced dog-pile against a newer player, but also because I'd like people to think a bit more about the other half of the equation. Allanea has some prior history with Mount Zeon - do other nations really have a big incentive to get involved on an official level with a pretty odious (by a Western human rights standard at least) regime just because they happen to be fighting a slave state? Mount Zeon is not really an active anti-slavery nation: the Church condemns racial slavery on moral grounds but Muskegonia's use of slave labor isn't really something my government cares about, so offers of "anti-slavery support" aren't going to strike any kind of ideological chord.

Vangaziland wrote:That's fair enough. If Mt. Zeon is still against slavery, the Vannish aren’t there to make judgements on that nation. The Vannish don’t believe in intervening on ideological differences. They could surely issue statements or diplomatic missives aimed towards urging policy change. But they wouldn’t see the right wing as an enemy. In some ways the Vannish left is quite militant and really centrist.

Perhaps the right communique could be passed to clarify Vannish interests IC. If nothing else, working with a different type of nation could be good for the Vannish.

The Vannish are also prepared to offer other support that could be beneficial. Maybe even economic, especially if it could be shown how the investment of said funds will help pay for anti-slavery operations.

Vangaziland pays with cash.

Edit: After reading specifics of religion in your nation, I dont see anything that would stop us from battling slavery together or even preaching too much diplomacy against the way of life there.

Perhaps we could open with economic support which opens the door to more military involvement later on? Or your special forces could try and operate without the formal sanction of the Mount Zeon government.

The United Nations Of Europa wrote:The United Nations of Europa- Looking to support anti-slavery operations

The United Nations of Europa(U.N.E) has been recently involved in peacekeeping and establishing diplomatic relations around the world. Although our views within our society are different, we would like to help if it means we could help curb slavery within Muskegonia. We would also be willing to help train Zeonese troops and possibly supply weapons approved by commissions within the UNE. Our leader, Chancellor Linda Schulte would also like to discuss diplomatic activity between our nations and could discuss matters such as diplomatic relations and economic relations. The UNE's main terms of agreement would be diplomatic talks between leaders and the ability for the UNE to set up a refugee program to bring in rescued slaves into the UNE.

Now there's some interesting RP potential here, mainly because IC my nation's government would be totally unwilling to do business with a woman leader. But I do like the idea of having talks even though I don't think they would actually accomplish anything IC. Maybe the UNE could get involved via non-government organizations trying to provide aid (and running into some serious culture shock)?

I hope I'm not coming off as difficult or obstructive, that's not my intention. I do want both of you to be part of the story. I just think there's better ways to justify getting involved in this particular conflict beyond "my government wants to fight slavery" and I think the RP will be better if we explore them here first.



RE:denal

I've made some extra bad posts

But,it's in the past now,I try to RP the best I can.

Granted there's noone godmodding, because if someone did,I'd do to them.

Welcome to reality.

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Allanea
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Founded: Antiquity
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Postby Allanea » Fri Sep 27, 2019 4:50 am

This is not how anything works.

Godmoding is not a reasonable response to godmoding at all.

Look I like you but it's fairly clear you have a lot to learn. I do not mean this in any kind of mean way, and if anything I am fond of your nation but it's clear that the style of your play is not compatible with that of this RP.
#HyperEarthBestEarth

Sometimes, there really is money on the sidewalk.

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The United Nations Of Europa
Envoy
 
Posts: 327
Founded: Jul 01, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The United Nations Of Europa » Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:40 am

Mount Zeon wrote:Now there's some interesting RP potential here, mainly because IC my nation's government would be totally unwilling to do business with a woman leader. But I do like the idea of having talks even though I don't think they would actually accomplish anything IC. Maybe the UNE could get involved via non-government organizations trying to provide aid (and running into some serious culture shock)? I hope I'm not coming off as difficult or obstructive, that's not my intention. I do want both of you to be part of the story. I just think there are better ways to justify getting involved in this particular conflict beyond "my government wants to fight slavery" and I think the RP will be better if we explore them here first.


The U.N.E. would mainly be partaking this on more diplomatic terms throughout the RP. We are having our own war within our country so we don't have any interest in escalating this conflict into a major war in the world. We'd be willing to offer weapons and trade deals but they'd have to be discussed with our chancellor no matter what. We realize that there are major differences considering our society values but we think it'd be good to establish relations with nations outside of our normal spectrum. The U.N.E. is made up of numerous nations coming together to form one with many having liberal and conservative ideas so we aren't new to dealing with different views.

Concerning Muskegonia's society, I don't think it's hard to tell that we are against its values but we do respect the sovereignty of nations. We are not here to take over Muskegonia and force change but rather solve most of our differences through diplomatic terms. We are willing to use small forms of force such as tier 1 units but we will not send large amount of forces to Muskegonia on any terms throughout the conflict. We are here to have possible influence in the region, not to stay forever in a war.
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Muskegonia
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Founded: Aug 19, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Muskegonia » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:59 am

Argentine Socialist Democratic Republic wrote:When i say "Help" I mean trying to bring the SDRA closer to Muskegonia diplomatically, which would have consequences in this small conflict (which would favor Muskegonia, since in the case that good diplomatic relations are established, the SDRA would provide support to Muskegonia).

This has the objective of generating a positive influence on Muskegonia and fulfilling the objectives of President Dutsher regarding the foreign policy of the SDRA. Give a good image is important for her to be able to attract immigrants, although this can have negative consequences for a Pro-slavery country.

In addition, President Dutsher does not approve of slavery but believes that it is worse to combat it with military force, so the intentions of the SDRA also include fighting pro-slavery in a peaceful manner. Also this intention to relate diplomatically hides the ambition of the SDRA to gain greater international importance. This diplomatic relationship also aims to maintain a stable government and avoid rebellions or violent revolutions.

So building a diplomatic relationship and then potentially providing aid later on? That's okay with me.

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Mount Zeon
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Founded: Oct 23, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Mount Zeon » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:07 am

Vangaziland wrote:The point of our anti slavery focus is not to win you over. You asked why my nation would be involved. That’s why. Regardless of how your nation feels about it. As far as investments, it would have to be clear that the funds would be going towards operations that affected anti-slavery in general. Regardless of the dispute in the valley. It’s beyond one nation and politics.

Vangaziland is not offering free aid in the hopes of winning Mt. Zeon over. We do run the Order of the Purple Cross which I’ll edit the link to. It is a multinational NGO that has done limited RP in the past.

I could focus on the NGO and potentially have agents there. We have no interest in sneaking teams in your border because that’s hostile and we have no hostile stance towards your nation... Even if you don’t trust us. We basically aren’t heel toeing to your politics. The offer of aid is there and it is clear. I understand your angle, now understand mine. This isn’t my first rodeo.

As far as concerns on keeping things small scale, I understand. I have no desire to bring in major assets or hardware. As I said, the team would barely get involved. I can also understand that it benefits Muskegonia to keep Mt. Zeon equipped with hunting rifles against their automatics. It would not be unrealistic or off key to assist the Zeonese into developing by the time the war starts. The team’s deployment obviously doesn’t have to be immediate and starting with economic investments sounds right, given the stipulations.

Order of the Purple Cross NGO: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=324932

Yes I think starting with economic interactions and then moving to military aid works. The disconnect I was having is why Mount Zeon would say yes when a nation we'd had no interactions with offers to send in special forces for anti-slavery action. Allanea's presence is unofficial and Auman, if they ever post, is offering aid focused on border security as opposed to direct action against Muskegonia. So I just was trying to work out how we could get to the end result in a way that make sense on my side.

The United Nations Of Europa wrote:The U.N.E. would mainly be partaking this on more diplomatic terms throughout the RP. We are having our own war within our country so we don't have any interest in escalating this conflict into a major war in the world. We'd be willing to offer weapons and trade deals but they'd have to be discussed with our chancellor no matter what. We realize that there are major differences considering our society values but we think it'd be good to establish relations with nations outside of our normal spectrum. The U.N.E. is made up of numerous nations coming together to form one with many having liberal and conservative ideas so we aren't new to dealing with different views.

Concerning Muskegonia's society, I don't think it's hard to tell that we are against its values but we do respect the sovereignty of nations. We are not here to take over Muskegonia and force change but rather solve most of our differences through diplomatic terms. We are willing to use small forms of force such as tier 1 units but we will not send large amount of forces to Muskegonia on any terms throughout the conflict. We are here to have possible influence in the region, not to stay forever in a war.

Mount Zeon would certainly be open to trading agricultural goods in exchange for possibly weapons and other military supplies. Similarly to Vangaziland above, that can be a starting point that opens up opportunities for kinetic action later.
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Mount Zeon sounds very much like somewhere I'd like to avoid like the plague
Mount Zeon: is it the farming
---
New Edom: Mount Zeon is a nation of ass men
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Oh good God, how many of you people are there in this region?
---
Novitera: What expensive but low volume goods come out of Mount Zeon?
Vionna-Frankenlisch: Wives

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Allanea
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Postby Allanea » Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:20 pm

I mean to be clear if someone accuses Allanea of being responsible for the submarine attack Allanea will of course just say "yes, we did this, death to the slaver".
#HyperEarthBestEarth

Sometimes, there really is money on the sidewalk.

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