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Gun Control IV - Lock, Stock, and Talk

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is it government militias or the citizenry that the 2nd Amendment gives the right to bear arms to?

It is the government militias
33
18%
It is the people/citizenry of the United States
77
42%
I honestly don't know
2
1%
It is both
48
26%
Chuck, shut up and give me a weapon
25
14%
 
Total votes : 185

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The Chuck
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Gun Control IV - Lock, Stock, and Talk

Postby The Chuck » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:15 pm

Previously, on Gun Control.

Len Hyet wrote:Previously, on Gun Control.

Part I, Part II, Part III

Original Post & Thread by Conservative Morality:


Been gone from NSG recovering from a little accident (nothing major) so I thought I'd return to the forums with a true classic - gun control.

I speak on this issue as an American, and thus I necessarily refer back to the 2nd Amendment here. The 2nd Amendment is culturally important - practically, less so. In an age of effective nonlethal self-defense weapons, 'self-defense' rings somewhat hollow as a justification; in an age of the MIC, 'combat readiness' for the civilian population doubly so; and anyone who thinks that their militia is going to resist the tyranny of the Feds with small arms is loony enough that they probably shouldn't own any guns. One must remember that even in the American Revolutionary War it was not private firearms which provided the majority of the firepower of American forces; such firearm ownership was primarily the province of skirmishers and some irregulars.

I could care less, to be honest, about long guns. We aren't the Wild West. We aren't some wartorn third-world country. Even fully automatic long guns don't concern me too much. Our problems with firearms are overwhelmingly concerned with the tracking of individuals who misuse them, not so much the disarmament of individuals with firearms. We don't live in a country where militias and gangs can resist the force of the State without using the institutions of the State (judicial process, presumption of innocence, civil rights).

Registration and tracking of firearms is all-important, as is licensing for individuals. I'm not sure that there are many circumstances I would support a full ban on a person's right to own firearms, but restricting ownership of certain firearms for certain individuals is probably useful. Acquiring a license to own handguns in particular, I think, is a good idea. Criminal activity is overwhelmingly reliant on concealment of weaponry.

I do think a limitation on different 'classes' of weapons is useful - but the current definitions of 'assault' weapons are asinine and borderline useless. Restrictions on semiautomatic long guns should be based primarily on ease of concealment - 'tactical' attachments, bayonet lugs, that shit doesn't matter. Collapsing stocks and shortened barrels and extended magazine capacity is more important, and even then I don't believe in a complete ban on such things.

Private and government property, naturally, can restrict what comes onto their property. Your rights end where another's begin. If the city doesn't want your glock in the local social services department, leave it at home and quitcher bitchin'.

Silencers is a question I struggle with. Any policy on silencers has to be Federal, not piecemeal state-by-state, but... on one hand, the use of silencers to lessen hearing loss and damage is perfectly legitimate and silencers don't work like Hollywood 'plink plink' kind of bullshit. It turns a roar into a bark. It's not exactly a sneaky-beaky murder weapon. On the other hand, turning a roar into a bark is sometimes enough combined with background ambiance to conceal the firing of a gun in circumstances where a gun should not be fired, which is... problematic.

Open carry is an issue that I think should mostly be regulated by the individual states, with some exceptions. There is no fucking reason you need to open carry a fully automatic weapon in public, full stop. Keep that shit on private property. I'd prefer it if people didn't carry their AR-15 dick replacements into the local department stores with tactical webbing and camo from head to toe either, but I guess that's more a personal preference.

So? Agree? Disagree? Am I just rambling?


Current Poll Requested by: Hammer Britannia
Last edited by The Chuck on Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:17 pm

Ah, that fresh thread smell. This one smells somehow like both gunpowder and the paperwork of regulation at the same time. :p
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:18 pm

Chan Island wrote:Ah, that fresh thread smell. This one smells somehow like both gunpowder and the paperwork of regulation at the same time. :p


That's the harsh chemical smell of tyranny.
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PRO:
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-Life
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ANTI:
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:32 pm

There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.
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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Seems fair to take turns, no?

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The Chuck
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Postby The Chuck » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Already saw and replied. If anyone has a suggestion for new material for the gun control thread, just shoot it my way in a DM and I'll give it a once over.
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Sycar correctly guessed the rifles on my flag. As such, Sycar is the all knowing God of guns!
Proud leader of the Fuster Cluck Coalition of N-Day 4. #5 Baby!
"An armed man is a Citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
Want to discuss guns and other stuff in a relaxed Discord? click here.
"I'm not a bad man but in certain situations I have to ask myself, "What would a bad man do?" -War Dogs
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:34 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Seems fair to take turns, no?


This happens in literally no serial threads.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:37 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Seems fair to take turns, no?


This happens in literally no serial threads.


Then maybe we can create a new trend. The right wing threads are all created by right wingers, the left wing threads by left wingers. The British thread is always by British people. Maybe the gun control thread should be by people who support gun control? Crazy idea I know.

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The Chuck
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Postby The Chuck » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:39 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
This happens in literally no serial threads.


Then maybe we can create a new trend. The right wing threads are all created by right wingers, the left wing threads by left wingers. The British thread is always by British people. Maybe the gun control thread should be by people who support gun control? Crazy idea I know.


Or maybe it should be created by anyone who is involved in the firearms control argument/topic? Just another crazy idea. Sometimes folks are just quicker on the draw than others.

As I've said prior, if you want something added, shoot me a TG Fartsniffage :)
I use NS Stats. - Yes, a majority of my people die at 24...
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The Chuck wholly endorses Wolf Armaments

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Sycar correctly guessed the rifles on my flag. As such, Sycar is the all knowing God of guns!
Proud leader of the Fuster Cluck Coalition of N-Day 4. #5 Baby!
"An armed man is a Citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
Want to discuss guns and other stuff in a relaxed Discord? click here.
"I'm not a bad man but in certain situations I have to ask myself, "What would a bad man do?" -War Dogs
What the O.F. originally intended...
Quotes from others.

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Telconi
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Posts: 27988
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:39 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
This happens in literally no serial threads.


Then maybe we can create a new trend. The right wing threads are all created by right wingers, the left wing threads by left wingers. The British thread is always by British people. Maybe the gun control thread should be by people who support gun control? Crazy idea I know.


Or, alternatively, you can stop fabricating a problem where there is none.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:43 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Then maybe we can create a new trend. The right wing threads are all created by right wingers, the left wing threads by left wingers. The British thread is always by British people. Maybe the gun control thread should be by people who support gun control? Crazy idea I know.


Or, alternatively, you can stop fabricating a problem where there is none.


Control of the poll buddy. All I'm asking for is that it's split equally between they two sides of this very contentious debate.

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The Chuck
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Postby The Chuck » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:45 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Or, alternatively, you can stop fabricating a problem where there is none.


Control of the poll buddy. All I'm asking for is that it's split equally between they two sides of this very contentious debate.


Would you like me to edit the poll? My TG box is open and receptive if you have any comments Fartsniffage.
I use NS Stats. - Yes, a majority of my people die at 24...
Advertisement Space:
The Chuck wholly endorses Wolf Armaments

{>==╦╦=ʖ> Put this in your signature if you're a war profiteer
Sycar correctly guessed the rifles on my flag. As such, Sycar is the all knowing God of guns!
Proud leader of the Fuster Cluck Coalition of N-Day 4. #5 Baby!
"An armed man is a Citizen. An unarmed man is a subject."
Want to discuss guns and other stuff in a relaxed Discord? click here.
"I'm not a bad man but in certain situations I have to ask myself, "What would a bad man do?" -War Dogs
What the O.F. originally intended...
Quotes from others.

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Crockerland
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Postby Crockerland » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:46 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Seems fair to take turns, no?

The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.
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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:47 pm

Crockerland wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Seems fair to take turns, no?

The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.


You got that backwards dude. But good try. :)

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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:50 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Crockerland wrote:The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.


You got that backwards dude. But good try. :)


That is how turns work
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PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:52 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
You got that backwards dude. But good try. :)


That is how turns work


Lol.

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Hammer Britannia
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Postby Hammer Britannia » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:55 pm

I mean, Fart, the fact that these threads have pretty much just become a wankfest for pro-gun rights activists (me included) should be telling that the creator of the threads will usually be one of those wankers.

Also, who are you? IM? Why do you care about Polls so much? And why does it matter? These threads haven't had a legitimate poll since the first one.

tl;dr: W h y?




Anyways, gun control bad.
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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:56 pm

Hammer Britannia wrote:I mean, Fart, the fact that these threads have pretty much just become a wankfest for pro-gun rights activists (me included) should be telling that the creator of the threads will usually be one of those wankers.

Also, who are you? IM? Why do you care about Polls so much? And why does it matter? These threads haven't had a legitimate poll since the first one.

tl;dr: W h y?




Anyways, gun control bad.


QED

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Telconi
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:56 pm

Hammer Britannia wrote:I mean, Fart, the fact that these threads have pretty much just become a wankfest for pro-gun rights activists (me included) should be telling that the creator of the threads will usually be one of those wankers.

Also, who are you? IM? Why do you care about Polls so much? And why does it matter? These threads haven't had a legitimate poll since the first one.

tl;dr: W h y?




Anyways, gun control bad.



There we go, problem solved
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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The Blaatschapen
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm

Crockerland wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Seems fair to take turns, no?

The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.


The Dutch thread has been led by a non-dutch speaker once.

Personally, I have my eyes set on the Christianity thread :twisted:

:p
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Crockerland
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Postby Crockerland » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:58 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Or, alternatively, you can stop fabricating a problem where there is none.


Control of the poll buddy. All I'm asking for is that it's split equally between they two sides of this very contentious debate.

A debate?! Even a middle-school debate club would be insulted by the comparison.

One side of the "debate" believes in things like "fully-semi-automatic guns", "assault weapons", "massacre machine gun magazines", and "30 caliber clips" that let you "dispense 30 bullets within half a second", one side wants to ban things like "magazines that can hold multiple bullets".

Gun control is a "debate" like Mike Tyson vs Honey Boo Boo is the boxing match of the century!
Last edited by Crockerland on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hammer Britannia
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Postby Hammer Britannia » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:58 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Crockerland wrote:The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.


The Dutch thread has been led by a non-dutch speaker once.

Personally, I have my eyes set on the Christianity thread :twisted:

:p

No me

Honestly, I would prefer a centrist OP for threads like this, but given how polarized issues like this are that's like trying to find a needle in an infinite haystack
Last edited by Hammer Britannia on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Grinning Dragon
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Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:04 pm

The Chuck wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:
A) private dealers at a gun show that are selling firearms are a very, small percentage so small that they don't even bother renting booth space. The other issue is if they sell x amount in a given year, they must apply for an FFL.
B) I've never seen such a thing. I've gone to gun shows since I was young going back to the 70's and its always FFLs, the private sellers that are there sell jewelry, ammo, camping gear, books, crafts.
I find it odd that when it comes to firearms, and no other type of arms, we treat this portion of an enumerated right as a privilege, let alone the insane restrictions, hoops and rigamarole that no other right is subjected to.
To me it is govt overreach, and my ideal system of gun control is using both hands. Other than that, I'm against all gun control laws.


*Cough* FTFY

Bah, the other is only at 499, it's still got a bit a flavor left in that chew.
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Aclion
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aclion » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:07 pm

The Chuck wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Already saw and replied. If anyone has a suggestion for new material for the gun control thread, just shoot it my way in a DM and I'll give it a once over.

[the idea of gun control advocates needing progun people to come up with new material for them.] XD
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:10 pm

Aclion wrote:
The Chuck wrote:
Already saw and replied. If anyone has a suggestion for new material for the gun control thread, just shoot it my way in a DM and I'll give it a once over.

Lmao at the idea of gun control advocates needing progun people to come up with new material for them. :x


According to Fris I can DM The Chuck and he has to change to poll. Or so I read his response in Moderation.

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