Teaching children about hell

[The Grims]

Odd, when I was a theist I thought that hell was a shitty idea that should not be taught given how easily and often it was abused.

Interesting. When I was a theist I didn't think like that.

Did you believe there were nefarious people who abused the concept?

[Neutraligon]

Odd, when I was a theist I thought that hell was a shitty idea that should not be taught given how easily and often it was abused.

Interesting. When I was a theist I didn't think like that.

The reason at least partially because while I was a theist, my religion did not have the concept of hell, and so I was not taught about hell until I talked about it with my Christian friends. Not every theistic religion has hell in it.

[Estanglia]

Everything is downstream from religion and lack thereof. Hence as usual it is a thread that should have been merged into the Christianity or atheism thread.

That's exactly why it's so silly when people who have a religious debate on this thread are accused of thread-jacking.

Well, the topic is specifically hell, so having a non-hell related religious debate would be threadjacking as the specific focus of the thread is hell, not the other parts of religion.

[Fahran]

That's exactly why it's so silly when people who have a religious debate on this thread are accused of thread-jacking.

Well, the topic is specifically hell, so having a non-hell related religious debate would be threadjacking as the specific focus of the thread is hell, not the other parts of religion.

We could discuss related concepts like Gehenna or Naraka, I suspect, though few on this forum really have an interest or ability to discuss those at present.

[Cekoviu]

Well, the topic is specifically hell, so having a non-hell related religious debate would be threadjacking as the specific focus of the thread is hell, not the other parts of religion.

We could discuss related concepts like Gehenna or Naraka, I suspect, though few on this forum really have an interest or ability to discuss those at present.

Tbh Elohim should've figured out a way to liberate Gehenna himself instead of just getting Uriel to do it for him. Lazy douche.

[Nimzonia]

According to https://www.salon.com/2014/11/01/the_sad_twisted_truth_about_conservative_christianitys_effect_on_the_mind_partner/

...

What do you think, NSG? Should children be taught about hell or is it wrong?

It's wrong if done dishonestly in the knowledge that no such punishment exists, but if it's done with entirely good intentions, then it's just depressing. The whole notion of hell as a punishment for non-belief is such a laughably ham-fisted and transparently human-devised manipulation attempt, I find it incredibly sad that so many of my fellow humans lack the mental faculties to see it for what it is.

[Fahran]

We could discuss related concepts like Gehenna or Naraka, I suspect, though few on this forum really have an interest or ability to discuss those at present.

Tbh Elohim should've figured out a way to liberate Gehenna himself instead of just getting Uriel to do it for him. Lazy douche.

"Hi. I'm Cekoviu. And I know better than G-d."

[Fahran]

According to https://www.salon.com/2014/11/01/the_sad_twisted_truth_about_conservative_christianitys_effect_on_the_mind_partner/

...

What do you think, NSG? Should children be taught about hell or is it wrong?

It's wrong if done dishonestly in the knowledge that no such punishment exists, but if it's done with entirely good intentions, then it's just depressing. The whole notion of hell as a punishment for non-belief is such a laughably ham-fisted and transparently human-devised manipulation attempt, I find it incredibly sad that so many of my fellow humans lack the mental faculties to see it for what it is.

I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt until you implied that you were SO much more intelligent than those dumb-dumb religious people in your last sentence. Thomas Aquinas and Moses Maimonides were probably smarter than you. They just employed a different metholodigcal framework and paradigm. People aren't idiots simply because they disagree with your view of the world.

[Nimzonia]

Thomas Aquinas and Moses Maimonides were probably smarter than you. They just employed a different metholodigcal framework and paradigm. People aren't idiots simply because they disagree with your view of the world.

They can be forgiven for living in an age of ignorance. Today, there's no excuse.

[Fahran]

Thomas Aquinas and Moses Maimonides were probably smarter than you. They just employed a different metholodigcal framework and paradigm. People aren't idiots simply because they disagree with your view of the world.

They can be forgiven for living in an age of ignorance. Today, there's no excuse.

I think you're deeply misguided about the nature of classical and medieval societies.

[Nimzonia]

They can be forgiven for living in an age of ignorance. Today, there's no excuse.

I think you're deeply misguided about the nature of classical and medieval societies.

Then you're wrong.

[Fahran]

I think you're deeply misguided about the nature of classical and medieval societies.

Then you're wrong.

Very insightful. What constitutes an age of ignorance precisely?

[Nimzonia]

Then you're wrong.

Very insightful. What constitutes an age of ignorance precisely?

One in which scientific enquiry had yet to yield a reasonable alternative model for understanding the world to that provided by religion.

[Fahran]

One in which scientific enquiry had yet to yield a reasonable alternative model for understanding the world to that provided by religion.

While the scientific method was developed and refined from natural philosophy, principles of empiricism, and a wide array of other notions and ideas quite recently, it had predecessors and doesn't possess a monopoly on the gathering of knowledge. And I say that as a biochemistry student and, hopefully, future doctor. Science is cool, but it's not a magical tool that automatically makes us better than other people. It's a functional methodology that allows us to refute hypotheses with some degree of consistency, efficacy, and accuracy.

[Nimzonia]

One in which scientific enquiry had yet to yield a reasonable alternative model for understanding the world to that provided by religion.

While the scientific method was developed and refined from natural philosophy, principles of empiricism, and a wide array of other notions and ideas quite recently, it had predecessors and doesn't possess a monopoly on the gathering of knowledge. And I say that as a biochemistry student and, hopefully, future doctor. Science is cool, but it's not a magical tool that automatically makes us better than other people. It's a functional methodology that allows us to refute hypotheses with some degree of consistency, efficacy, and accuracy.

It's not just that we have a different methodology to medieval philosophers, we also stand atop centuries of accumulated knowledge and refinement of rational thought. It doesn't make us "better", but it does give us the opportunity to be less ignorant, which, sadly, rather too many people reject. If you object to my characterisation of them as lacking in mental faculties, then fine, perhaps I was unfair, but I still don't accept the notion that their world view is equally valid.

[Cekoviu]

Tbh Elohim should've figured out a way to liberate Gehenna himself instead of just getting Uriel to do it for him. Lazy douche.

"Hi. I'm Cekoviu. And I know better than G-d."

I mean, I do think I probably know better than a concept, but more importantly, I was making a video game reference.

[Luminesa]

Interesting. When I was a theist I didn't think like that.

The reason at least partially because while I was a theist, my religion did not have the concept of hell, and so I was not taught about hell until I talked about it with my Christian friends. Not every theistic religion has hell in it.

Didn’t you say you were once Jewish?

[Tiltjuice]

I'd rather we not, but there's no good way to enforce it, other than our already existing standards for when any belief crosses into emotional abuse. We can only strive for a culture where open questioning and criticism of religion and critical thinking is encouraged, and services helping people recover from harmful religious beliefs available.

The sincerity of the parents' beliefs doesn't get much sympathy from me. Sincerity doesn't make bad ideas and harmful practices any less bad or harmful. The principle of "mind your own business" tends to get chucked out the window when it comes to children for me too, because children are not the possessions of their parents to mold and prod as they wish, they are independent individuals whose wellbeing is being entrusted to someone else until they can maintain it themselves. I'm of the unpopular opinion that parenthood is a privilege and duty, not a right — your foolishness does not come before the life of another person.

1) Kick out all the fundie Confucianists. (oh...wait...)
2) Kill everyone with kindness.
3) Eat bagels.
4) Profit

[The Black Forrest]

Was raised Catholic and even considered the priesthood once.

Hell was not taught to the kids. What purpose does that do? Fear is not faith.

[Farnhamia]

I'd rather we not, but there's no good way to enforce it, other than our already existing standards for when any belief crosses into emotional abuse. We can only strive for a culture where open questioning and criticism of religion and critical thinking is encouraged, and services helping people recover from harmful religious beliefs available.

The sincerity of the parents' beliefs doesn't get much sympathy from me. Sincerity doesn't make bad ideas and harmful practices any less bad or harmful. The principle of "mind your own business" tends to get chucked out the window when it comes to children for me too, because children are not the possessions of their parents to mold and prod as they wish, they are independent individuals whose wellbeing is being entrusted to someone else until they can maintain it themselves. I'm of the unpopular opinion that parenthood is a privilege and duty, not a right — your foolishness does not come before the life of another person.

1) Kick out all the fundie Confucianists. (oh...wait...)
2) Kill everyone with kindness.
3) Eat bagels.
4) Profit

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