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Should everyone have a right to express their own opinion?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Bluelight-R006
Senator
 
Posts: 4261
Founded: Mar 31, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Should everyone have a right to express their own opinion?

Postby Bluelight-R006 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:51 am

I saw this reply by a person to a comment that shared his/her experience of facing the ‘odd’ death of a close one. The person who replied thought it was quite funny—the ‘odd’ manner in which the close one of the commenter has died—that (s)he decided to fight off anyone who disagreed with him/her strongly, which obviously there were many who were quite upset.

The person who replied stated, “I have a right to express my opinion, don’t I?” This got me thinking, do we [have a right to express our opinion if it hurts others]? If we upset other people by saying something ‘extremely offensive’ to a person or a group, do we have a right to express our opinion?

I feel that if a certain statement has the potential of hurting some people deeply, then it’s better to withhold that opinion from the public rather than express it. We have the rights to hold our own opinion, and maybe even asserverate it, but not go and force it or ‘attack’ others with it. It’s probably not best if we continue to defend that statement, as we may hurt others with our ignorance.

Then again, if someone asks for people’s opinions on the matter, then they should probably get what they’re asking for—the opinions they seek to hear no matter how wrong they may be.

It’s a mixed up thinking from me, and I can’t weight it out properly, so I’d like to hear some solid opinions from the NSG community.

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60353
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:54 am

The person who replied stated, “I have a right to express my opinion, don’t I?” This got me thinking, do we [have a right to express our opinion if it hurts others]? If we upset other people by saying something ‘extremely offensive’ to a person or a group, do we have a right to express our opinion?

I feel that if a certain statement has the potential of hurting some people deeply, then it’s better to withhold that opinion from the public rather than express it. We have the rights to hold our own opinion, and maybe even asserverate it, but not go and force it or ‘attack’ others with it. It’s probably not best if we continue to defend that statement, as we may hurt others with our ignorance.


This opinion is deeply offensive and hurts me, due to the assailment of my deeply held beliefs surrounding liberal philosophy.
Last edited by Galloism on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
Minister
 
Posts: 2761
Founded: Apr 05, 2017
Democratic Socialists

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:57 am

Was this online or in person? Because I think the Darwin Awards' very existence is a counterbalance to the irrational hypersensitivity people have around deaths. People have for so long been walking on eggshells around death that it's cathartic to be deliberately insensitive about it without consequence, and as a result some people wind up taking it too far. Never treat the Internet as a representative sample.

Anyway, it obviously depends on the opinion; if it's something like "[insert supposed victim here] should be killed" then it's on the borderline between expressing opinions and uttering threats. If it's something merely insensitive it should be protected; the fact that people have such an emotional reaction to it, if anything, makes it all the more important to protect it, so that those offended can make the case for whether or not their reaction is more justified than that which they're reacting to.
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Andsed
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Posts: 6387
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:05 am

People should have the right to express their opinion no matter how screwed up as long as they are not breaking any other laws. But that does not mean they cannot be called out on their bullshit and saying you have a right to express your opinion is not an excuse for being a dick.
Last edited by Andsed on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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An Alan Smithee Nation
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Founded: Apr 18, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:06 am

Having a right to express your opinion and exercising it are two different things. As a rule of thumb I would suggest only upsetting other people when you have a reason to do so, not just for the sake of expressing yourself.

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The South Falls
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby The South Falls » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:07 am

While it is callous, he has every right to undertake that endeavor. However, it is not by any means, an expedient maneuver for maintaining civility.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:08 am

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Bluelight-R006
Senator
 
Posts: 4261
Founded: Mar 31, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bluelight-R006 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:08 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Having a right to express your opinion and exercising it are two different things. As a rule of thumb I would suggest only upsetting other people when you have a reason to do so, not just for the sake of expressing yourself.

Wanted to point this out earlier—I feel as if, that you could express yourself but not defend yourself so far, so thoroughly as to upset more along the way. A waste of time and emotion. So much so it’d be better to avoid the entire ordeal.
Last edited by Bluelight-R006 on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Fourth Philippines
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: Aug 22, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fourth Philippines » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:11 am

Bluelight-R006 wrote:I saw this reply by a person to a comment that shared his/her experience of facing the ‘odd’ death of a close one. The person who replied thought it was quite funny—the ‘odd’ manner in which the close one of the commenter has died—that (s)he decided to fight off anyone who disagreed with him/her strongly, which obviously there were many who were quite upset.

The person who replied stated, “I have a right to express my opinion, don’t I?” This got me thinking, do we [have a right to express our opinion if it hurts others]? If we upset other people by saying something ‘extremely offensive’ to a person or a group, do we have a right to express our opinion?

I feel that if a certain statement has the potential of hurting some people deeply, then it’s better to withhold that opinion from the public rather than express it. We have the rights to hold our own opinion, and maybe even asserverate it, but not go and force it or ‘attack’ others with it. It’s probably not best if we continue to defend that statement, as we may hurt others with our ignorance.

Then again, if someone asks for people’s opinions on the matter, then they should probably get what they’re asking for—the opinions they seek to hear no matter how wrong they may be.

It’s a mixed up thinking from me, and I can’t weight it out properly, so I’d like to hear some solid opinions from the NSG community.


Yes, we do. Fuck censorship.

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 18298
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:17 am

Bluelight-R006 wrote:I saw this reply by a person to a comment that shared his/her experience of facing the ‘odd’ death of a close one. The person who replied thought it was quite funny—the ‘odd’ manner in which the close one of the commenter has died—that (s)he decided to fight off anyone who disagreed with him/her strongly, which obviously there were many who were quite upset.

There can be limits. If someone came into the church during the funeral and started insulting and mocking the deceased and laughing at the grief of the mourners, then I'm sure plenty of folk would say that really isn't acceptable.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Teachian
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 184
Founded: Sep 23, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Teachian » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:20 am

Everyone has the right to an opinion, and a chance to express said opinion.

Some people just seem to overvalue how important their opinion is, or think people aren’t allowed to have a negative opinion of their opinion. Which is strange, since “hey, not cool” would equally be protected by “that’s just my opinion”. But that’s just my opinion.
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Andsed
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6387
Founded: Aug 24, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Andsed » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:22 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Bluelight-R006 wrote:I saw this reply by a person to a comment that shared his/her experience of facing the ‘odd’ death of a close one. The person who replied thought it was quite funny—the ‘odd’ manner in which the close one of the commenter has died—that (s)he decided to fight off anyone who disagreed with him/her strongly, which obviously there were many who were quite upset.

There can be limits. If someone came into the church during the funeral and started insulting and mocking the deceased and laughing at the grief of the mourners, then I'm sure plenty of folk would say that really isn't acceptable.

Also that would probably fall under making a public disturbance with I believe (I am in no way a lawyer so please correct me if I am wrong) is a criminal offense and thus police would probably get involved.
Hello I am Andsed welcome to my sig.


Amazing Andsed quotes:
Ok lets get back on topic so we don´t get this thread locked thanks to talking about my church windmill dancing.
Andsed is not legally responsible for any injuries that may occur if you take this seriously and somehow get a trebuchet and try to fling yourself into a plane. You fucking dumbass
NationStates going from serious debates about homosexuality to jokes about Jesus a marijuana dealer in the span of one to two posts since November 13 2002.
Sorry my mind is always in the gutter no it lives in gutter my mind is fuckin called pennywise it is in the gutter so much.
How does one outsource racism? Do you like get an Indian guy to call people and call them racial slurs?

LOVEWHOYOUARE~

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60353
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:23 am

Andsed wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:There can be limits. If someone came into the church during the funeral and started insulting and mocking the deceased and laughing at the grief of the mourners, then I'm sure plenty of folk would say that really isn't acceptable.

Also that would probably fall under making a public disturbance with I believe (I am in no way a lawyer so please correct me if I am wrong) is a criminal offense and thus police would probably get involved.

More likely since a church is private property, the duly empowered representative of the church would revoke your invitation - meaning you could leave or be arrested for trespassing.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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The British American Colonies
Attaché
 
Posts: 76
Founded: Nov 23, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The British American Colonies » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:24 am

I believe everyone, no matter how offensive their opinion may be, should be able to state their opinion. Period. Yes, even holocaust deniers, anti semites. That doesn’t mean I agree with them, not in the slightest, I just believe in free speech.
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The Sherpa Empire
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Posts: 1420
Founded: Jan 15, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Sherpa Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:27 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Having a right to express your opinion and exercising it are two different things. As a rule of thumb I would suggest only upsetting other people when you have a reason to do so, not just for the sake of expressing yourself.


^This.

Just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean it's not rude.
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Republican President Donald J Trump USA
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 65
Founded: Aug 09, 2019
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Republican President Donald J Trump USA » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:50 am

Should everyone have a right to express their own opinion ?

While many say bad things on NS and the Mods thank them for reporting it and they punish them, I will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons even if it is a negative statement against me.

Without mentioning names, How dare I try to get a fellow nation's General or RP thread locked, it feels spammy, it feels bloggy, as it has happed to me a few times, then after they lost the case they had the nerve to come on my thread they did not like and try to get locked for whatever reasons and post their views, lol that was a classic but I hold no grudges.

How dare I tell a fellow nation what to post, what not to post and how to post it especially on their own threads, like was done to me, on my anti Cuban government thread for obvious reasons my pet issue on NS, a few fellow nations demanded I change my posts and links, when I politely refused they posted back we fixed your post for you and now it is correct, and reported me as the bad guy for anything they could think of, used the F word against me and all Cubans, lol that was a classic, they are still on NS the last time I checked but I hold no grudges.

It makes me sick to see us reporting each other for anything we can think of, especially when the Mods say to them, not actionable, I don't see anything actionable, and many of them have very dirty records.

I respect everyone's right to their views and their rights to post them, I for one will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons, even if it is a negative statement against me, it is on my sigs.

I have a clean record that I am very proud of and wish to keep clean.
Last edited by Republican President Donald J Trump USA on Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
I will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons,even if it is a negative statement against me. I am Pro strong Defense, Pro America, Pro American Foreign Policy, conservative economic policies over leftist, liberal, socialist economic policies. Pro Israel and the Jewish People, Anti open borders illegal immigration, Anti commie, Anti Cuban commies as it has been practiced all over the world.

While I support background checks and keeping guns from mentally ill people and criminals with a record, I am against gun bans.

As far as I am concerned President Trump is the second Greatest American President, President Ronald Reagan is the first Greatest American President and the original Make America Great Again President. over and out Peace.

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The New California Republic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18298
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:53 am

Republican President Donald J Trump USA wrote:
Should everyone have a right to express their own opinion ?

While many say bad things on NS and the Mods thank them for reporting it and they punish them, I will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons even if it is a negative statement against me.

Without mentioning names, How dare I try to get a fellow nation's General or RP thread locked, it feels spammy, it feels bloggy, as it has happed to me a few times, then after they lost the case they had the nerve to come on my thread they did not like and try to get locked for whatever reasons and post their views, lol that was a classic but I hold no grudges.

How dare I tell a fellow nation what to post, what not to post and how to post it especially on their own threads, like was done to me, on my anti Cuban government thread for obvious reasons my pet issue on NS, a few fellow nations demanded I change my posts and links, when I politely refused they posted back we fixed your post for you and now it is correct, and reported me as the bad guy for anything they could think of, lol that was a classic, they are still on NS the last time I checked but I hold no grudges.

It makes me sick to see us reporting each other for anything we can think of, especially when the Mods say to them, not actionable, I don't see anything actionable, and many of them have very dirty records.

I respect everyone's right to their views and their rights to post them, I for one will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons, even if it is a negative statement against me, it is on my sigs.

I have a clean record that I am very proud of and wish to keep clean.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#etiquette
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Antityranicals
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Founded: May 18, 2019
Anarchy

Postby Antityranicals » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:55 am

Without a doubt, and with no exception, everyone should have a right to express their own opinion, no matter how evil, and also, without a doubt and with no exception, everyone should have a right to call out and denounce anyone's opinion. People do not have rights to "unhurt feelings", or "safe spaces", unless they want to buy their own soundproof room, and go sit alone in it.
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Pacomia
Senator
 
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Founded: May 23, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Pacomia » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:56 am

Everyone has the right to express their opinion, but less so to carry it out.

Example: If you believe we should kill all the Jews, you have the right to express that opinion. You don’t have the right to kill Jews.
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Republican President Donald J Trump USA
Bureaucrat
 
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Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Republican President Donald J Trump USA » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:58 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Republican President Donald J Trump USA wrote:
Should everyone have a right to express their own opinion ?

While many say bad things on NS and the Mods thank them for reporting it and they punish them, I will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons even if it is a negative statement against me.

Without mentioning names, How dare I try to get a fellow nation's General or RP thread locked, it feels spammy, it feels bloggy, as it has happed to me a few times, then after they lost the case they had the nerve to come on my thread they did not like and try to get locked for whatever reasons and post their views, lol that was a classic but I hold no grudges.

How dare I tell a fellow nation what to post, what not to post and how to post it especially on their own threads, like was done to me, on my anti Cuban government thread for obvious reasons my pet issue on NS, a few fellow nations demanded I change my posts and links, when I politely refused they posted back we fixed your post for you and now it is correct, and reported me as the bad guy for anything they could think of, lol that was a classic, they are still on NS the last time I checked but I hold no grudges.

It makes me sick to see us reporting each other for anything we can think of, especially when the Mods say to them, not actionable, I don't see anything actionable, and many of them have very dirty records.

I respect everyone's right to their views and their rights to post them, I for one will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons, even if it is a negative statement against me, it is on my sigs.

I have a clean record that I am very proud of and wish to keep clean.

https://www.nationstates.net/page=faq#etiquette

To the New California Republic, Thank you for the Link, I know the rules, that is not my point as my post clearly states.
I will never take a fellow nation before the Mod Gods and our Almighty Goddess Violet for any reasons,even if it is a negative statement against me. I am Pro strong Defense, Pro America, Pro American Foreign Policy, conservative economic policies over leftist, liberal, socialist economic policies. Pro Israel and the Jewish People, Anti open borders illegal immigration, Anti commie, Anti Cuban commies as it has been practiced all over the world.

While I support background checks and keeping guns from mentally ill people and criminals with a record, I am against gun bans.

As far as I am concerned President Trump is the second Greatest American President, President Ronald Reagan is the first Greatest American President and the original Make America Great Again President. over and out Peace.

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Rost Dreadnorramus
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 181
Founded: Aug 28, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Rost Dreadnorramus » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:02 am

Bluelight-R006 wrote:I saw this reply by a person to a comment that shared his/her experience of facing the ‘odd’ death of a close one. The person who replied thought it was quite funny—the ‘odd’ manner in which the close one of the commenter has died—that (s)he decided to fight off anyone who disagreed with him/her strongly, which obviously there were many who were quite upset.

The person who replied stated, “I have a right to express my opinion, don’t I?” This got me thinking, do we [have a right to express our opinion if it hurts others]? If we upset other people by saying something ‘extremely offensive’ to a person or a group, do we have a right to express our opinion?

I feel that if a certain statement has the potential of hurting some people deeply, then it’s better to withhold that opinion from the public rather than express it. We have the rights to hold our own opinion, and maybe even asserverate it, but not go and force it or ‘attack’ others with it. It’s probably not best if we continue to defend that statement, as we may hurt others with our ignorance.

Then again, if someone asks for people’s opinions on the matter, then they should probably get what they’re asking for—the opinions they seek to hear no matter how wrong they may be.

It’s a mixed up thinking from me, and I can’t weight it out properly, so I’d like to hear some solid opinions from the NSG community.

Based off the title, yes.
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Vivolkha
Envoy
 
Posts: 205
Founded: Oct 15, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vivolkha » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:02 am

Quoting from this article: https://freedomhouse.org/blog/terrorism ... sion-spain
The fact that something may be offensive should not be used as an excuse to ban it, as the most powerful elements of the state and society typically decide what constitutes offensive speech under such laws, and repressive regimes around the world have abused this power to silence their critics, persecute vulnerable minorities, and maintain their own positions. If any group can block speech they disagree with, democratic debate and diversity of thought become impossible.


"Safe spaces", "hate speech" laws and so on make no sense and are a threat to freedom of speech and to quality democracy.
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Antityranicals
Diplomat
 
Posts: 613
Founded: May 18, 2019
Anarchy

Postby Antityranicals » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:03 am

Vivolkha wrote:Quoting from this article: https://freedomhouse.org/blog/terrorism ... sion-spain
The fact that something may be offensive should not be used as an excuse to ban it, as the most powerful elements of the state and society typically decide what constitutes offensive speech under such laws, and repressive regimes around the world have abused this power to silence their critics, persecute vulnerable minorities, and maintain their own positions. If any group can block speech they disagree with, democratic debate and diversity of thought become impossible.


"Safe spaces", "hate speech" laws and so on make no sense and are a threat to freedom of speech and to quality democracy.

I agree. Eventually "hate speech" will always be defined as "whatever authority disagrees with".
Libertarian Purity Score: 148/160
Political Compass: Far-Right Social Libertarian.
Right: 9.94, Libertarian: 5.84
Catholic Libertarian, almost Anarcho-Capitalist. Government has no authority, all authority is from God. God grants us free will, and the government should not infringe upon it. Legislating morality is wrong. Only exception is when protecting rights to life, liberty, and property. Abortion is killing an infant, and is one of the few things governments have a responsibility to prevent. Pro-Trump, though I wish he were more for free trade and more against deficits, because he's been an effective weapon against the real enemies of freedom: The Left. Unrestrained capitalism is a beautiful thing; it does wonders for the standard of living of everyone, especially the poor.

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Ginicun
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Posts: 66
Founded: Jan 23, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ginicun » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:15 am

Is that even a question? Yes, everybody should have a right to express their own opinion.
http://www.politicalsextant.com/quiz/?1=1&2=-2&3=-1&4=-1&5=-1&6=-2&7=2&8=-2&9=-1&10=-2&11=-1&12=-2&13=-1&14=-1&16=1&17=2&18=1&19=-1&20=-1&21=1&22=-1&23=-1&24=-1&25=-2&26=1&27=1&28=-1&29=1&30=-1&31=0&32=-1&33=-1&34=-2&35=-1&36=1&37=2&38=-2&39=2
Ginicun is a democracy with republic and united kingdom type monarchy elements.
Who you jiving with that cosmic debris?
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Valentine Z
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Posts: 5501
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:16 am

I personally believe that the freedom of expression should be there, but like others have said, it's not a surprise if something you said have offended someone somewhere in the future.

With that said, most of the opinions can also be said without the negative connotations, or sounding outright rude. Like, "exterminating a X race" is something that can't be spin in any way to make it inoffensive, but there's a difference between "You're a dumbass for thinking that way" versus "I personally disagree with your views...." Always be nice to whoever you are talking to, even if it is easier said than done at times.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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