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Israel denies entry to Reps. Omar and Tlaib

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Is Israel's ban of Omar and Tlaib justified or unjust?

Justified
115
45%
Unjust
139
55%
 
Total votes : 254

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Jolthig
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Israel denies entry to Reps. Omar and Tlaib

Postby Jolthig » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:59 am

Caught between the opposing views of President Trump and Democratic leaders, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reversed himself on Thursday and decided to prohibit Reps. Ilhan Omar (D-Minn.) and Rashida Tlaib (D-Mich.) from visiting Israel during a trip scheduled to start Sunday.

The move followed an unusual intervention by Trump and immediately opened up a new battle between Netanyahu and Democrats, who had privately warned that such a decision would be unprecedented and inconsistent with Israel’s claims of tolerance and openness.

“The decision has been made; the decision is not to allow them to enter,” Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Tzipi Hotovely told Israel’s Reshet Radio.

Several pro-Israel groups in the United States criticized the decision, an about-face on the part of Netanyahu’s government.

“Any sitting member of Congress should be welcome to visit Israel as official representatives of Israel’s closest ally and most critical source of international support,” said the Israel Policy Forum, a New York-based Jewish organization. “We strongly urge Prime Minister Netanyahu to reconsider.”

The Democratic Party’s leading progressive presidential primary candidates also swiftly condemned the decision, with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) calling it a “sign of enormous disrespect to these elected leaders” and Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) warning that it would be a “shameful, unprecedented move.”

Last month, Israeli Ambassador Ron Dermer said the two congresswomen would be allowed to visit Israel “out of respect for the U.S. Congress and the great alliance between Israel and America.” But on Wednesday, Israeli officials informed congressional leaders that Netanyahu had changed his mind and Israel would prohibit the two vocal critics of Israel from entering the country, congressional aides said. Like others, they spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive deliberations.

Israeli officials told U.S. lawmakers said they would formally announce the decision to bar Omar and Tlaib on Wednesday, but after a private backlash from Democratic leadership and some U.S.-based pro-Israel groups, the announcement was moved to Thursday, initially leaving lawmakers uncertain about whether Netanyahu had changed his mind.

Trump weighed in Thursday morning on the impending decision, writing on Twitter: “It would show great weakness if Israel allowed Rep. Omar and Rep. Tlaib to visit. They hate Israel & all Jewish people, & there is nothing that can be said or done to change their minds.” Pivoting to domestic politics, Trump added: “Minnesota and Michigan will have a hard time putting them back in office. They are a disgrace!”

The lawmakers have repeatedly denied harboring any animus toward Jews or Israelis and have said their criticisms of the Israeli government are based on policy differences.

With three weeks to go before a repeat election on Sept. 17, Netanyahu is fighting a bitter battle to stay in office and wants to appear strong to his fractured right-wing support base.

Omar and Tlaib’s trip to Jerusalem and the West Bank was planned by Miftah, a nonprofit organization headed by Palestinian lawmaker and longtime peace negotiator Hanan Ashrawi.

The question about their entry status arose because of a recently passed Israeli law that denies entry visas to foreign nationals who publicly back or call for any kind of boycott — economic, cultural or academic — against Israel or its West Bank settlements.

The goal of the measure is to battle the boycott, divestment and sanctions (BDS) movement, which protests Israeli treatment of the Palestinians and has found growing support in Europe and the United States in recent years.

Trump, who maintains a close relationship with Netanyahu, has said the lawmakers should “go back” to the countries they came from in remarks widely condemned as racist. Tlaib was born in Michigan, and Omar was born in Somalia. Both have loudly criticized Israel’s human rights record and treatment of Palestinians.

Neither of their offices responded to requests for comment.

House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) took the issue up with Israeli officials on Wednesday on behalf of the Democratic leadership, but could not convince the government to let the lawmakers in.

Hoyer, who just returned from a trip to Israel sponsored by the powerful pro-Israel lobbying organization AIPAC, was seen as an obvious point person for the dispute, given his close relationship with the Israeli government.

Most Democrats in Congress are far more reluctant to criticize Israel than Tlaib or Omar, and many have spoken out against their remarks criticizing Israel’s policies and influence on Capitol Hill. But congressional aides said many in the party would forcefully oppose an Israeli decision to block two women of color from traveling to the country.

It’s unclear what might have changed the Israeli position from last week, when Axios reported that an interagency meeting was held in which all government agencies agreed the visit should be allowed in order to avoid damaging the U.S.-Israeli relationship.

Anticipation for the visit generated significant media attention in Israel. This week, Knesset member and former Jerusalem mayor Nir Barkat said he would be willing to meet the freshman lawmakers but not if “they come with their opinion and create propaganda or make havoc in our country.”

A person involved with the trip who was not authorized to talk to the media said the congresswomen hoped to arrive in the region Sunday, depending on Israel’s final decision.

Tlaib hoped to stay some extra days to see her grandmother, who lives in a West Bank village.

No official meetings were scheduled for the U.S. lawmakers, but they were planning to travel to the Palestinian cities of Bethlehem, Hebron and Ramallah and spend time in Jerusalem.

They were scheduled to meet during their stay with Israeli and Palestinian civil society groups, humanitarian workers and young people and see one of the East Jerusalem hospitals affected by recent cuts in U.S. aid to the Palestinians.

Eglash reported from Jerusalem. Josh Dawsey and Ashley Parker in Washington contributed to this report.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... ?tid=sm_fb

This is outrageous. Israel cannot simply ban people for expressing opposing views of their policies. Not only is this a slap on these congresswomen with Trump backing them, but it also shows how controlling Israel is regarding opposition. Israel should reverse its decision, and let the lawmakers in as they have done nothing to incite hatred against Jews.

What do you think NSG? Was Israel's decision absolutely justified or was it completely unjust? Discuss.
Last edited by Jolthig on Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:07 am

This is the same Israel that is snowflake triggered by the pretty much peaceful BDS movement. Not really a surprise when Bibi is known to kiss Donnie's fat orange ass.
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Postby Gravlen » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:10 am

It's fully in line with the level of respect Netanyahu has for the U.S. Congress and the alliance between Israel and America.

First time I've hear a sitting US president advocate for excluding U.S. citizens (elected representatives, even) from entry elsewhere in the world.
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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:12 am

Gravlen wrote:It's fully in line with the level of respect Netanyahu has for the U.S. Congress and the alliance between Israel and America.

First time I've hear a sitting US president advocate for excluding U.S. citizens (elected representatives, even) from entry elsewhere in the world.

So how can she get back to Somalia like Donnie and Rand Paul want her to then?
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Postby Ors Might » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:14 am

Another fuck joins the cluster.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:14 am

Gormwood wrote:
Gravlen wrote:It's fully in line with the level of respect Netanyahu has for the U.S. Congress and the alliance between Israel and America.

First time I've hear a sitting US president advocate for excluding U.S. citizens (elected representatives, even) from entry elsewhere in the world.

So how can she get back to Somalia like Donnie and Rand Paul want her to then?

It's all just nonsense really. By US law, Omar is a citizen of the US. Ironic how Trump says, "Come here legally' and she has lol
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Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

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Postby Nakena » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:19 am

Oh boy this is going to be fun.
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Postby Unstoppable Empire of Doom » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:38 am

God forbid you critique zionism.
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SD_Film Artists
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Postby SD_Film Artists » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:42 am

Doesn't America deny people visas etc if they've said anything which is vaguely anti-US? Maybe I'm thinking of the Whitehouse rather than the whole country. If it's true then the politicans shouldn't expect to have different treatment.
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:44 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:Doesn't America deny people visas etc if they've said anything which is vaguely anti-US? Maybe I'm thinking of the Whitehouse rather than the whole country. If it's true then the politicans shouldn't expect to have different treatment.

America does welcome politicians who have been critical of the US.
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Postby Rossiyaana » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:52 am

SD_Film Artists wrote:Doesn't America deny people visas etc if they've said anything which is vaguely anti-US? Maybe I'm thinking of the Whitehouse rather than the whole country. If it's true then the politicans shouldn't expect to have different treatment.

Not really, Most countries don’t, after all: “Only Nixon could go to China.” The Israelis on the other hand deny entrance if you’ve ever been to certain countries, and have a terrible history of racial profiling when deciding whether you can come into the country or not.
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Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:00 am

Oh, this is gonna end well.
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Pacomia
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Postby Pacomia » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:07 am

Kowani wrote:Oh, this is gonna end well.

All the other shit Netanyahu did basically went unpunished, since the Israeli government is corrupt (and so is Netanyahu), and America always looks over whatever crazy thing Israel is doing, because they REALLY don’t want to lose their alliance with Israel.

Basically the same thing is happening with Saudi Arabia, because oil, even though there’s plenty of oil in Canada and Norway and several other countries America is already allied with and hell, even America itself, but no, they need Saudi oil, so they look over the many human rights violations and the insane zealotry and the corruption and just maintain their alliance with the Saudis.
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Postby Jolthig » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:08 am

Pacomia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Oh, this is gonna end well.

All the other shit Netanyahu did basically went unpunished, since the Israeli government is corrupt (and so is Netanyahu), and America always looks over whatever crazy thing Israel is doing, because they REALLY don’t want to lose their alliance with Israel.

Basically the same thing is happening with Saudi Arabia, because oil, even though there’s plenty of oil in Canada and Norway and several other countries America is already allied with and hell, even America itself, but no, they need Saudi oil, so they look over the many human rights violations and the insane zealotry and the corruption and just maintain their alliance with the Saudis.

Also, Trump has business ties with Israel.
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Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:10 am

I knew it. Another week of stupidity in US politics. With a pinch of Israeli to the mix.
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:11 am

Fuck that, Americans can go where we want.
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Postby Pacomia » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:14 am

Shit, I voted for the wrong thing. Can you turn on changing answers?
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:15 am

Notable historic tinderbox country doesn't allow "vocal critics" of its policies, who've previously supported economic boycotts that harm its people and economy, in for a nice little chat. Blows my mind, if I'm honest.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:16 am

Pacomia wrote:Shit, I voted for the wrong thing. Can you turn on changing answers?

Changing poll option added.
Devoted Ahmadi Muslim • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan
Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:17 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Notable historic tinderbox country doesn't allow "vocal critics" of its policies, who've previously supported economic boycotts that'd harm its people, in for a nice little chat. Blows my mind, if I'm honest.


I don’t think this has ever happened involving the US, which is purported to be Israel’s closest ally.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:18 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Notable historic tinderbox country doesn't allow "vocal critics" of its policies, who've previously supported economic boycotts that'd harm its people, in for a nice little chat. Blows my mind, if I'm honest.

Omar and Tlaib is literally small fries compared with other US politicians, and yet, both Trump and Israel have an issue with them. Sure they called in for a boycott, yet, they also had plans to actually visit people in Israel and Palestine to get an assessment of their situation. That's literally the best way to go about things.
Devoted Ahmadi Muslim • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan
Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:19 am

Jolthig wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Notable historic tinderbox country doesn't allow "vocal critics" of its policies, who've previously supported economic boycotts that'd harm its people, in for a nice little chat. Blows my mind, if I'm honest.

Omar and Tlaib is literally small fries compared with other US politicians, and yet, both Trump and Israel have an issue with them. Sure they called in for a boycott, yet, they also had plans to actually visit people in Israel and Palestine to get an assessment of their situation. That's literally the best way to go about things.


Perhaps they doubted their good intentions.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:19 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Notable historic tinderbox country doesn't allow "vocal critics" of its policies, who've previously supported economic boycotts that harm its people and economy, in for a nice little chat. Blows my mind, if I'm honest.

Somehow, no other critic of Israel has been banned.
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Jolthig
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Postby Jolthig » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:20 am

Kowani wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:Notable historic tinderbox country doesn't allow "vocal critics" of its policies, who've previously supported economic boycotts that harm its people and economy, in for a nice little chat. Blows my mind, if I'm honest.

Somehow, no other critic of Israel has been banned.

Literally Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar are small fries and yet they're huge threats somehow lol
Devoted Ahmadi Muslim • theistic evolutionist • Star Wars fan
Grenartia wrote:Then we Marshall Plan it.

Kowani wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Lol why

“Und Mirza”

:lol2:

Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Isn't that what NSG is for though to a degree?

YOU’RE WRONG.

Allow me to explain using several fallacies, veiled insults, and insinuations that you’re ugly and dumb.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:20 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Jolthig wrote:Omar and Tlaib is literally small fries compared with other US politicians, and yet, both Trump and Israel have an issue with them. Sure they called in for a boycott, yet, they also had plans to actually visit people in Israel and Palestine to get an assessment of their situation. That's literally the best way to go about things.


Perhaps they doubted their good intentions.


It has never stopped other politicians disagreement from entering before.
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