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Should humanity be in such a hurry to get into space?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should wide scale space colonisation be a priority now?

Yes (Why?)
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80%
No (Why not?)
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Australian rePublic
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Should humanity be in such a hurry to get into space?

Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:37 am

Space is the next Frontier, and there's absolutely no reason for any developed country in this day and age to a lack a space program. For this reason, I was actively campainingfor Australia to build a space program. We need to launch satelites for communication, security and weather purposes, and the militaries of the world would benefit greatly from space exploration. But beyond that, should we really be in such a hurry to explore space? I mean, if there was any benefit, the private sector would be working on getting there. I know, I know- astroid mining. I'm sure someone's working on that. And indeed Virgin Galactic are working on profitable space endeavours, e.g. space tourism.

Sure you could argue that Elon Mask is also working on space travel, but he's doing that as a hobby, rather than a business venture. I mean, beyond that, I really don't see how we'll benefit from, say, a Mars colony for atleast 50 years. Till then, it's just an expensive, pointless method of sending people to sending people to the middle of nowhere for the rest of their lives. In the meanwhile, we have homelessness, disease and everything else to worry about here on terra firma. And that doesn't mention the ethical and environmental concerns. I could create an entire thread on the ethics of space travel alone.

But space travel is cool
So? Don't look to NationStates, away from this websites space travel is a very niche hobby. Why should car enthuist, train enthuist, etc. enthuist pay taxes to fund your hobby?

Space will solve overpopulation
A Mars colony will be able to support, what, maybe, 100 people, max, in the foreseeable future. This is a drop in the ocean for overpopulation. And it'll need to be supplied by Earth anyways.

We can a lot about space from space travel
Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. What benefit could we get from learning about space? If you think learning about space should be a priority because it's interesting, please refer to my earlier point about space being cool

I don't know, whilst space exploration is invediable, I just don't think we should be in any hurry to fund space exploration now. I think wr have bigger priorities to focus on here o Earth. What do you think?
Last edited by Australian rePublic on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Highever
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Postby Highever » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:43 am

It seems like most of your argument relies on the fact that it would be rudimentary and not an immediate benefit, but I mean, isnt that how all innovations work? Of course we wont be able to move a billion people to mars in 10 years, but I dont really see why that means we should just give up on it. Improvements are only going to come from progress and continued effort.
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Postby Oceara » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:46 am

I think we should be endeavoring to shorten the time frame to get into space for the simple "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" sort of deal, doesn't mean that we should necessarily throw everything we have at the problem right now. But it would be wise to get things moving along so the probability of total extinction is minimized wherever practical.
Last edited by Oceara on Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Alanis Star » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:48 am

I must move to one place that is not plagued by capitalism...

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References aside, it's not too soon as of now, but eventually, we will need to look at Mars. Even if somehow we managed to get Earth back in pristine condition and we are living there comfortably, there's a problem of overcrowding, though I reckon that would only be a problem in the next... 10-20 years, maybe?

We might need to go, but for the time being... We got our own problems on Earth that could use some attention first.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:48 am

Of course. I'm not a spaceist.
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Toscana e Ducati di Firenze e Siena
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Postby Toscana e Ducati di Firenze e Siena » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:49 am

I think that humanity should first solve the problems we've down here with climate crisis and the complete BS we're still in before thinking going to other planets.

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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:51 am

Alanis Star wrote:I must move to one place that is not plagued by capitalism...

SPAAAAACEEEEE!

-----

References aside, it's not too soon as of now, but eventually, we will need to look at Mars. Even if somehow we managed to get Earth back in pristine condition and we are living there comfortably, there's a problem of overcrowding, though I reckon that would only be a problem in the next... 10-20 years, maybe?

We might need to go, but for the time being... We got our own problems on Earth that could use some attention first.

A Mars colony is a trillion dollar drop in the ocean for ovedpopulation. Sure, drops in the ocean add up to make up the ocean, but not when they individually cost hundreds of billions of US dollars
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The Blackcat Isles
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Postby The Blackcat Isles » Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:55 am

While I see where you're coming from, consider this: any moment an asteroid as large as the one that killed the dinosaurs can hit our planet. If that happens, what will be left of the human race? Nothing but ruins and fossils. Now say that in the meantime we had a colony on the moon, on Mars, heck, maybe even in Alpha Centauri or Teegarden's Star. Yes, Earth would still be lost, but humanity wouldn't be. Our race would continue on and be able to spread further across the stars. That is why I am an emphatic supporter of humanity going into space, because that's the only way we can ensure our species' lasting survival.

Yes, we have many problems here on Earth that need and should be our priority, climate change being the top most concern. But if we neglect our move into the cosmos in the meantime, then we may solve all the problems here on Earth, only to find it was all in vain when an asteroid would hit us. Then all of our knowledge, all of our scientific advancements, all of our technology would disappear in the blink of an eye.

And while I am a staunch supporter of the idea that the size of the Milky Way alone should be an indicator that alien life has to exist, what if Earth is the first planet in our galaxy (or the nearby galaxies) to have evolved intelligent life? If that's true and our species would go extinct, then maybe intelligent life may never rise again.
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Postby Kaedijork » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:00 am

All exploration endeavours suffered the same issue at first. Why did medieval kingdoms sent boats overseas to discover new lands when they were more likely to not come back successful, let alone at all? Why did the monarchs waste their 'tax' money on that? Because they knew that eventually the benefits would outweigh the costs.

With the current epidemic of acceleration towards global disaster, either from ecosystem collapse or WMD/war, it is imperative to the human race that we get off this planet. Not in the sense that we have Star Command up and running tomorrow, but in the sense that future generations will look back at us and go 'thank god they got it started before it was too late'.

We've got to start at some point, and all the problems outlined in the OP aren't going away anytime soon. If we wait until we 'solve' all of those problems, we'll be waiting til there's no one left. The time might as well be now, because whether we start now or in 100 years, the accidents/missteps that will contribute to our understanding of how to colonise the stars are going to be the same; can you imagine if we'd jumpstarted the development of electric technology by 100 years IRL? Where would we be now? Apply that principle to space travel. Place yourself in the same position of your great great grandchild, and give them that future.

There comes a point in every kid's life where they realise they are never going to the moon. If we hurry now, then in a decade, that doesn't have to be the case.

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Postby Nakena » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:33 am

Space is the place.

Theres simply no excuse for the last 20-30 years being wasted with garbage and the scientifically and otherwise advanced western world not fulfilling its historical and aeonic destiny.

Toscana e Ducati di Firenze e Siena wrote:I think that humanity should first solve the problems we've down here with climate crisis and the complete BS we're still in before thinking going to other planets.


Like what? Attempting to bring "liberal democracy" to such splendid places like Afghanistan or Iraq while adhering to some shit ideology that doesnt fixes anything and then whining over the results. Or oh wait, doing Fridays for Future with Greta Thunberg so we can feel good about le climate change while Earth regardless transfroms into a desert world anyways......

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Kaedijork wrote:All exploration endeavours suffered the same issue at first. Why did medieval kingdoms sent boats overseas to discover new lands when they were more likely to not come back successful, let alone at all? Why did the monarchs waste their 'tax' money on that? Because they knew that eventually the benefits would outweigh the costs.

With the current epidemic of acceleration towards global disaster, either from ecosystem collapse or WMD/war, it is imperative to the human race that we get off this planet. Not in the sense that we have Star Command up and running tomorrow, but in the sense that future generations will look back at us and go 'thank god they got it started before it was too late'.

We've got to start at some point, and all the problems outlined in the OP aren't going away anytime soon. If we wait until we 'solve' all of those problems, we'll be waiting til there's no one left. The time might as well be now, because whether we start now or in 100 years, the accidents/missteps that will contribute to our understanding of how to colonise the stars are going to be the same; can you imagine if we'd jumpstarted the development of electric technology by 100 years IRL? Where would we be now? Apply that principle to space travel. Place yourself in the same position of your great great grandchild, and give them that future.

There comes a point in every kid's life where they realise they are never going to the moon. If we hurry now, then in a decade, that doesn't have to be the case.


Fully agree with this btw. 100%
Last edited by Nakena on Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:25 am

What rush? The last time humans landed on another body was almost 50 years ago.
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Postby -Ocelot- » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:40 am

Toscana e Ducati di Firenze e Siena wrote:I think that humanity should first solve the problems we've down here with climate crisis and the complete BS we're still in before thinking going to other planets.


The whole point of going to space is to solve our current problems. Especially resource-related problems.

Problems push us to change, constantly re-invent the wheel and expand our horizons. It's how evolution works.
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:02 am

This planet is royally fucked, so I think we need colonization of space if we want to continue civilization as we know it.

Unless we get magical sci-fi technology to reverse the effects of humanity on Earth, we need to venture into the final frontier to survive.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:04 am

The minute they build the USS enterprise and commission it for launch, i swear me and five other people are hijacking it and leaving this dump.
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:08 am

Hurry? What hurry? I haven't seen a sudden rush...
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Postby BC freedom » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:17 am

yes but Not like colonize mars within a week more like we colonize the Moon first.

let me point out the benefits of colonizing the moon

1: it will give humanity experience in building structures in space

2: the Moon is rich with resources and can provide alot for the earth and it's inhabitants

3: it will serve as the launching pad for space colonization

those are the three points I have so far, to be fair we have to solve problems here like global warming, human rights etc but if we want a true shot in space empires we need to first take the moon

conclusion: We should hurry to conquer the moon and access it's resources.
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Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:25 am

Somebody should tell the OP that the private sector is trying to go to space, and it’s not just Elon Musk.
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:39 am

Toscana e Ducati di Firenze e Siena wrote:I think that humanity should first solve the problems we've down here with climate crisis and the complete BS we're still in before thinking going to other planets.


I think that humanity as a unified force doesnt exist. America however should go to space and secure Mars before anyone else can. Also the moon.

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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:40 am

Kowani wrote:Somebody should tell the OP that the private sector is trying to go to space, and it’s not just Elon Musk.

You brought it up, you do it
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Postby Neko-koku » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:41 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Space is the next Frontier, and there's absolutely no reason for any developed country in this day and age to a lack a space program. For this reason, I was actively campainingfor Australia to build a space program. We need to launch satelites for communication, security and weather purposes, and the militaries of the world would benefit greatly from space exploration. But beyond that, should we really be in such a hurry to explore space? I mean, if there was any benefit, the private sector would be working on getting there. I know, I know- astroid mining. I'm sure someone's working on that. And indeed Virgin Galactic are working on profitable space endeavours, e.g. space tourism.

Sure you could argue that Elon Mask is also working on space travel, but he's doing that as a hobby, rather than a business venture. I mean, beyond that, I really don't see how we'll benefit from, say, a Mars colony for atleast 50 years. Till then, it's just an expensive, pointless method of sending people to sending people to the middle of nowhere for the rest of their lives. In the meanwhile, we have homelessness, disease and everything else to worry about here on terra firma. And that doesn't mention the ethical and environmental concerns. I could create an entire thread on the ethics of space travel alone.

But space travel is cool
So? Don't look to NationStates, away from this websites space travel is a very niche hobby. Why should car enthuist, train enthuist, etc. enthuist pay taxes to fund your hobby?

Space will solve overpopulation
A Mars colony will be able to support, what, maybe, 100 people, max, in the foreseeable future. This is a drop in the ocean for overpopulation. And it'll need to be supplied by Earth anyways.

We can a lot about space from space travel
Just because we can, doesn't mean we should. What benefit could we get from learning about space? If you think learning about space should be a priority because it's interesting, please refer to my earlier point about space being cool

I don't know, whilst space exploration is invediable, I just don't think we should be in any hurry to fund space exploration now. I think wr have bigger priorities to focus on here o Earth. What do you think?


We need to start colonizing space now. Aliens shouldn't be allowed to get close to us without us noticing.
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:47 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Toscana e Ducati di Firenze e Siena wrote:I think that humanity should first solve the problems we've down here with climate crisis and the complete BS we're still in before thinking going to other planets.


I think that humanity as a unified force doesnt exist. America however should go to space and secure Mars before anyone else can. Also the moon.

The Red (Mars) White (Moon) and Blue. (Earth).


You can’t just plant a flag on a celestial body and claim it for team America, it would be a violation of the outer space treaty. Not to mention completely unenforceable.
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Postby Aclion » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:51 am

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
I think that humanity as a unified force doesnt exist. America however should go to space and secure Mars before anyone else can. Also the moon.

The Red (Mars) White (Moon) and Blue. (Earth).


You can’t just plant a flag on a celestial body and claim it for team America, it would be a violation of the outer space treaty. Not to mention completely unenforceable.

It's a stupid treaty that's held back investment in space for decades.We should withdraw.
Last edited by Aclion on Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:55 am

Aclion wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
You can’t just plant a flag on a celestial body and claim it for team America, it would be a violation of the outer space treaty. Not to mention completely unenforceable.

It's a stupid treaty that's held back investment in space for decades.We should withdraw.


And how exactly did it hold back investment in space? I thought it was the collapse of the USSR that did that.
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Postby Kowani » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:07 am

Aclion wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
You can’t just plant a flag on a celestial body and claim it for team America, it would be a violation of the outer space treaty. Not to mention completely unenforceable.

It's a stupid treaty that's held back investment in space for decades.We should withdraw.

It’s still unenforceable.
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Postby Solarist VZ » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:08 am

Well, our first priority isn't going straight to Mars. We must take everything that surround us like this.
1. Mine Asteroids: Musky agrees with me in this point, we already succeded in landing in a asteroid, now go to level two to resolve the resource crisis.
2. Secure the Lagrangian points
3. Go back to the Moon and mine H-3: Praise god and the Atom!. We really need Fusion.
This can be done on our current level of robotics and AI. Moving thousands of people to tight-ass habs in the cold-ass mare tranquillitatis can be not be easy, and non-terran Gravity can affect the human body in a not-good manner.
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