Mosque worshipper, 65, takes down heavily armed gunman

[The South Falls]

Nah, let's ban video games and barely regulate guns

Have you been listening to CA Republican McCarthy?

He's piped into my hab cell

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Have you been listening to CA Republican McCarthy?

He's piped into my hab cell

For shame, man!

[Nakena]

Uh..I think it is usually Zhang Xianzhongism aka Zhangism instead of Nazism or Islamism at work. It is just anti-human violence.

Given the background where this does comes from this is very true. But for many people this would be more even unsettling to accept because it would lead to conclusions that are incompatible with liberal worldview and its rational-enlightened ideas of justice, law and humanity in general.

[Neko-koku]

Uh..I think it is usually Zhang Xianzhongism aka Zhangism instead of Nazism or Islamism at work. It is just anti-human violence.

Given the background where this does comes from this is very true. But for many people this would be more even unsettling to accept because it would lead to conclusions that are incompatible with liberal worldview and its rational-enlightened ideas of justice, law and humanity in general.

It really isn't.

Zhang Xianzhongs are people who are usually poor, incel and antisocial. Natural selection tends to weed out genes of such people. However also as a result of evolution they don't like it and will do whatever they can to change this fact. In some societies it manifests itself as gang violence. In other societies it manifests itself as religious violence or political extremist violence. However the essence of such violence is actually Zhangism which is probably not even a human-only phenomenon. Other social species may have their own versions of Zhangism, that is, sexually frustrated males commiting random violence.

Humans tend to forget that humans are still apes.

[Nakena]

Given the background where this does comes from this is very true. But for many people this would be more even unsettling to accept because it would lead to conclusions that are incompatible with liberal worldview and its rational-enlightened ideas of justice, law and humanity in general.

It really isn't.

Zhang Xianzhongs are people who are usually poor, incel and antisocial. Natural selection tends to weed out genes of such people. However also as a result of evolution they don't like it and will do whatever they can to change this fact. In some societies it manifests itself as gang violence. In other societies it manifests itself as religious violence or political extremist violence. However the essence of such violence is actually Zhangism which is probably not even a human-only phenomenon. Other social species may have their own versions of Zhangism, that is, sexually frustrated males commiting random violence.

It wouldn surprise me as theres a heavy overlapping in social background and mindset of extreme islamists and nazists, specifically the kind prone towards terrorist or other kinds of violence. What would be the best way to deal though. Corresponding pathological patterns shouldn be too hard to identify.

Break up the patterns?

Maybe relieve somehow the sexual frustration component?

[Neko-koku]

It really isn't.

Zhang Xianzhongs are people who are usually poor, incel and antisocial. Natural selection tends to weed out genes of such people. However also as a result of evolution they don't like it and will do whatever they can to change this fact. In some societies it manifests itself as gang violence. In other societies it manifests itself as religious violence or political extremist violence. However the essence of such violence is actually Zhangism which is probably not even a human-only phenomenon. Other social species may have their own versions of Zhangism, that is, sexually frustrated males commiting random violence.

It wouldn surprise me as theres a heavy overlapping in social background and mindset of extreme islamists and nazists, specifically the kind prone towards terrorist or other kinds of violence. What would be the best way to deal though. Corresponding pathological patterns shouldn be too hard to identify.

Break up the patterns?

Maybe relieve somehow the sexual frustration component?

First and foremost we need more free porn and more video games. Secondly we need sex bots to not only be manufactured but also popularized. Thirdly adult prostitution needs to be legalized and destigmatized.

We can't do away with sexual selection now but these are good partial fixes. If we can convert Elliot Rodgerses to Sanhe video game addicts (https://www.chinadailyhk.com/articles/6 ... 27952.html) it will be a huge improvement.

[Arcanda]

It's not about "saving". It's the fact that you have made several unfounded assumptions about my arguments that you have yet to prove. Like how you accuse me of pretending to look away from your arguments and the fact you refuse to admit you've done so. To demonstrate why I think your posts are red herrings and strawmans I will provide examples of such arguments and compare them to yours

I accused you of pretending to look away from my argument that OP was biased because you implied it wasn't (and laughed it off):

"Islamic propaganda?"

Had you been bothered to do the explaining you've just done now back when I produced my intial critic, perhaps I wouldn't have said that.

I've made a simple statement in my OP post about me as a Muslim making my own response as a Muslim would. You, however, called my post "Islamic propaganda" which doesn't address why my post is Islamic propaganda. My OP was simply me giving my own statement saying that it is inspiring to stop a massacre as self-defense is a thing in Islam. You said, it was propaganda without demonstrating why it is, but adding nonsense like, "What are we supposed to discuss?" Which btw is from a critic of Islam and why I don't differentiate you from him. My OP is pretty clear in of itself we can discuss anything related to that article and my OP in turn, was itself my opinion and statement. Your response to my response strengthens my view:

Your opinion would have been fine had it come in an unbiased thread dedicated to the event. However, you've included your opinion in the very opening post (Something that's done on a usual basis on NSG, everything fine there) without caring to open the debate further. This in turn, because it's the OP, sets the debate in the direction we've observed, wherein most of the posts praise the hero.

I will remind you again, this post by you is a form of appeal to motive:

And I will remind you again that I do not accuse you of such out of the blue. When I first mentioned OP reading like Islamic propaganda, you laughed the matter off without answering why it wasn't. So I was only left with one option, assume you didn't dare answer it. Which you have done now, but then why should I be at fault for criticizing your disregard for my question when you didn't explain it then? I point to the heavy use of biased religious wording in the OP -> You laugh it off -> I tell you not to fake ignoring it -> Suddenly, I am at fault for committing a fallacy. This isn't logical. I'm not asking you to say "fallacy this" or "fallacy that", but to answer my question, simple as that.

You called it Islamic propaganda which is a complete exaggeration of my comments.

It's not an exaggeration since OP contains numerous references to a certain faith and nothing else.

Yeah, you didn't say so for the examples you provided in this quote, yet, you've said the below:


You may not have indicated that you hate islam by saying so but the above shows otherwise. Calling my post "Islamic propaganda" is pretty broad.

Putting words into my mouth is pretty bad. You see, you are trying to make me say things I didn't say, (It's a pattern), in order to mold my persona into the kind of stereotype you fixate yourself on (Same when you "felt" like I was accusing you of taqiyya, an oh so common trope of nationalists; or when you sensed I hated Islam because I objected to it).

One can recognize propaganda somewhere without necessarily hating its producer. While it can be used as a derogatory term ("That's Clinton propaganda" to talk about a political ad), it can also be used as a neutral term ("Government propaganda increased in X year").

I'm entirely convinced I was wrong now

Me too.

Epic
I'll see you tomorrow, all heroes need a rest. May I wake up free of fallacies, and may we finally debate the debate instead of debating the debate of the debate.

[Bear Stearns]

Good job.

[Nakena]

It wouldn surprise me as theres a heavy overlapping in social background and mindset of extreme islamists and nazists, specifically the kind prone towards terrorist or other kinds of violence. What would be the best way to deal though. Corresponding pathological patterns shouldn be too hard to identify.

Break up the patterns?

Maybe relieve somehow the sexual frustration component?

First and foremost we need more free porn and more video games. Secondly we need sex bots to not only be manufactured but also popularized. Thirdly adult prostitution needs to be legalized and destigmatized.

We can't do away with sexual selection now but these are good partial fixes. If we can convert Elliot Rodgerses to Sanhe video game addicts (https://www.chinadailyhk.com/articles/6 ... 27952.html) it will be a huge improvement.

Porn and Video games are, at least in western nations, readily avaiable. So is, to an lesser extend, adult prostitution.

However both porn and specifically prositution are heavily stigmatized and sometimes rejected amongst the target group in this case in particular. Same goes with homosexuality by the way.

Which is very unfortunate.

[Jolthig]

It's not about "saving". It's the fact that you have made several unfounded assumptions about my arguments that you have yet to prove. Like how you accuse me of pretending to look away from your arguments and the fact you refuse to admit you've done so. To demonstrate why I think your posts are red herrings and strawmans I will provide examples of such arguments and compare them to yours

I accused you of pretending to look away from my argument that OP was biased because you implied it wasn't (and laughed it off):

"Islamic propaganda?"

Had you been bothered to do the explaining you've just done now back when I produced my intial critic, perhaps I wouldn't have said that.

I laughed it off because you made your post sound like a cheap shot due to then lack of explanation for why my post is Islamic propaganda.

Eid mubarak (Happy Eid [Celebration]) NSG, and it's definitely a blessed Eid indeed! I give kudos to this man from stopping another massacre! Alhamdulilah (All praise belongs to Allah), lives have been saved. This is definitely inspiring because it shows that no one will be intimated by the alt-right no matter what they do. Preserving life is the best thing in Islam and this is exactly what this brother did when tackling a hostile enemy. May Allah bless him for his courage. Amen.

Thank you for this nice bit of Islamic propaganda, now to quote one of the early posters of this thread: What are we supposed to discuss?

There is no explanation in your first response to me.

That's why I laughed it off and responded with my own cheap shot in a Twitter-like fashion as I thought you taking the conversation in that direction which I admit regardless of your intentions, I shouldn't of done it like that as most of the time, I too, try to conduct myself in a professional manner. Now that you have explained yourself and I have explained myself too. I'll put this behind us, and move on to addressing your criticism.

I've made a simple statement in my OP post about me as a Muslim making my own response as a Muslim would. You, however, called my post "Islamic propaganda" which doesn't address why my post is Islamic propaganda. My OP was simply me giving my own statement saying that it is inspiring to stop a massacre as self-defense is a thing in Islam. You said, it was propaganda without demonstrating why it is, but adding nonsense like, "What are we supposed to discuss?" Which btw is from a critic of Islam and why I don't differentiate you from him. My OP is pretty clear in of itself we can discuss anything related to that article and my OP in turn, was itself my opinion and statement. Your response to my response strengthens my view:

Your opinion would have been fine had it come in an unbiased thread dedicated to the event. However, you've included your opinion in the very opening post (Something that's done on a usual basis on NSG, everything fine there) without caring to open the debate further. This in turn, because it's the OP, sets the debate in the direction we've observed, wherein most of the posts praise the hero.

Everyone has a bias in their opinions. No one is free from bias. I did not intend my OP to open a debate, but rather a free discussion related to this event like hero praise or those who raise objections against Islam or the far right. Basically, I was leaving the opportunity for anyone to talk about anything as long as it's related to this thread. Just like how TET isn't a debate thread but like a metaphorical coffee to chit chat and have fun, or occasionally RWDT when there is not debating but a discussion between history buffs agreeing with one another. Yes, my post was made in the style resembling other OPs. My response to the article was purely a response and not intended to convince anyone in argumentation, but simply me saying what I believe for myself and those who are Muslim viewing this thread. I could've posted it in IDT, but I also know that it's not necessarily 100% about Islam itself since it also includes the alt right which is unrelated to Islam.

I will remind you again, this post by you is a form of appeal to motive:

And I will remind you again that I do not accuse you of such out of the blue. When I first mentioned OP reading like Islamic propaganda, you laughed the matter off without answering why it wasn't. So I was only left with one option, assume you didn't dare answer it. Which you have done now, but then why should I be at fault for criticizing your disregard for my question when you didn't explain it then? I point to the heavy use of biased religious wording in the OP -> You laugh it off -> I tell you not to fake ignoring it -> Suddenly, I am at fault for committing a fallacy. This isn't logical. I'm not asking you to say "fallacy this" or "fallacy that", but to answer my question, simple as that.

Fair enough to your first sentence, however as I said earlier, you weren't very detailed in your first post which is why I thought you were being one of those far right winger NSGers (given it's NSG summer) launching a cheap shot at Islam which is why I responded in a twitter like fashion which again, regardless of your intentions, I probably shouldn't of done as it was unprofessional, but I'm glad we got our miscommunication sorted out. It's when you get constructive is when I'm willing to listen. Those who throw cheap shots, I don't listen to, and you've gotten constructive and consistent so I will drop my suspicion you were being Islamophobic, and apologize for my hostility.

Yeah, you didn't say so for the examples you provided in this quote, yet, you've said the below:


You may not have indicated that you hate islam by saying so but the above shows otherwise. Calling my post "Islamic propaganda" is pretty broad.

Putting words into my mouth is pretty bad. You see, you are trying to make me say things I didn't say, (It's a pattern), in order to mold my persona into the kind of stereotype you fixate yourself on (Same when you "felt" like I was accusing you of taqiyya, an oh so common trope of nationalists; or when you sensed I hated Islam because I objected to it).

Well, then you should've been more detailed earlier like you are now, but it's already been explained above this quoted post. And it's not "felt", but felt as I was feeling you were accusing me of such until you explained that wasn't your intention.

One can recognize propaganda somewhere without necessarily hating its producer. While it can be used as a derogatory term ("That's Clinton propaganda" to talk about a political ad), it can also be used as a neutral term ("Government propaganda increased in X year").

I'll again state, the OP wasn't intended to argue for anything but simply my own response to the article cited.

Me too.

Epic
I'll see you tomorrow, all heroes need a rest. May I wake up free of fallacies, and may we finally debate the debate instead of debating the debate of the debate.

Eh, to be fair, I needed sleep myself all day. Not that it's excusable, but when one like me who has a tendency to have 3-4 naps every day with lots of caffeine on top of that, one can get grumpy which is why I seemed snappy at you, and of course my outrage at right wingers praising or ignoring atrocities against Muslims by pointing to Islamists which is unrelated to the events, but that's a different topic. So yeah, we'll discuss your criticism when you come back, because I wanna learn more from your suggestions. Always willing to listen to constructive criticism for better OPs.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

That man is a bad ass hero.

[Neko-koku]

First and foremost we need more free porn and more video games. Secondly we need sex bots to not only be manufactured but also popularized. Thirdly adult prostitution needs to be legalized and destigmatized.

We can't do away with sexual selection now but these are good partial fixes. If we can convert Elliot Rodgerses to Sanhe video game addicts (https://www.chinadailyhk.com/articles/6 ... 27952.html) it will be a huge improvement.

Porn and Video games are, at least in western nations, readily avaiable. So is, to an lesser extend, adult prostitution.

However both porn and specifically prositution are heavily stigmatized and sometimes rejected amongst the target group in this case in particular. Same goes with homosexuality by the way.

Which is very unfortunate.

Because as usual humans are wicked as hell and prefer verbal moralizing to solving problems. Homosexuality also helps in terms of removing Elliot Rodgerses.

[Arcanda]

I laughed it off because you made your post sound like a cheap shot due to then lack of explanation for why my post is Islamic propaganda.

There is no explanation in your first response to me.

That's why I laughed it off and responded with my own cheap shot in a Twitter-like fashion as I thought you taking the conversation in that direction which I admit regardless of your intentions, I shouldn't of done it like that as most of the time, I too, try to conduct myself in a professional manner. Now that you have explained yourself and I have explained myself too. I'll put this behind us, and move on to addressing your criticism.

I see. In hindsight, my original post wasn't exactly worded in the best of ways. There was a little "shock value" to it, which I expected would push you to explain why it's not propaganda, and then we'd have continued that way. My bad, I just didn't know how else to convey my point in a short manner at that moment, and I get it that on the Internet it's generally how things go in debates like this. We're not usually inclined to believe our fellow debater is as serious as we are.

Everyone has a bias in their opinions. No one is free from bias. I did not intend my OP to open a debate, but rather a free discussion related to this event like hero praise or those who raise objections against Islam or the far right. Basically, I was leaving the opportunity for anyone to talk about anything as long as it's related to this thread. Just like how TET isn't a debate thread but like a metaphorical coffee to chit chat and have fun, or occasionally RWDT when there is not debating but a discussion between history buffs agreeing with one another. Yes, my post was made in the style resembling other OPs. My response to the article was purely a response and not intended to convince anyone in argumentation, but simply me saying what I believe for myself and those who are Muslim viewing this thread. I could've posted it in IDT, but I also know that it's not necessarily 100% about Islam itself since it also includes the alt right which is unrelated to Islam.

I'll again state, the OP wasn't intended to argue for anything but simply my own response to the article cited.

I get it, but the way I've come to understand how most of the threads work on NSG (And on any forum for that matter), OPs set the debate in a certain way. Having one's opinion in the OP, which I see as the introduction to the debate, means that this opinion will influence the rest of the discussion. In your opinion, you praised the hero, which is what a good 60% of posters here did, I'd say. Which is good, after all some threads can be biased, but then don't be surprised if people who object, like me, will come to question your OP. When the subject becomes so closely linked to the poster's opinion (Reflected in the thread's title, too), then both will be subject to discussion and will mesh together. Which is why I said that the thread was biased, or contained Islamic propaganda; because the way I perceived it, the OP simply did not give any room or did not ask any questions relevant to the matter of the fact. You've said you didn't intend it as such, so it stems from differing ideas of what OPs should be. Not that I need the OP to state every course of debate possible, but in my opinion it should be customary to open it a little.

Epic
I'll see you tomorrow, all heroes need a rest. May I wake up free of fallacies, and may we finally debate the debate instead of debating the debate of the debate.

Eh, to be fair, I needed sleep myself all day. Not that it's excusable, but when one like me who has a tendency to have 3-4 naps every day with lots of caffeine on top of that, one can get grumpy which is why I seemed snappy at you, and of course my outrage at right wingers praising or ignoring atrocities against Muslims by pointing to Islamists which is unrelated to the events, but that's a different topic. So yeah, we'll discuss your criticism when you come back, because I wanna learn more from your suggestions. Always willing to listen to constructive criticism for better OPs.

I'm not telling you not to have opinions, everyone has some and include them in their OPs. Just that on that one instance, the OP (Except for the article) is filled with religious linguo praising the man, and sets a certain pre-determined course for the thread like I said above. Whether he deserves praise or not, is not my point, I won't play devil's advocate just for the sake of being contrarian. My issue lays primarily with the OP.

[New Bremerton]

This is awesome. The guy's a hero and I hope the gunman does time for terror-related offenses, at the very least. I'll leave the jury (as in the general public and NSG, not a literal Norwegian jury) to decide if he ought to get the death penalty for murdering his stepsister. Norway doesn't have capital punishment. Far-right white supremacy is a very real threat to life, limb and democracy in Western societies, even if I sometimes think the left-leaning mainstream media and social justice mob tend to massively exaggerate and label everyone and everything racist to score political points, in the same way that those on the (Western) Right tend to exaggerate the very real threat of far-right totalitarian radical Islam/Islamism, which is a far bigger threat in the Muslim world itself compared to Europe.

[Gormwood]

Suspected mosque shooter arrives in court with two black eyes

Anders Wannabe got whooped good.

[Cekoviu]

Suspected mosque shooter arrives in court with two black eyes

Anders Wannabe got whooped good.

(Image)

Almost felt a bit sorry for him until I remembered what he was trying to do.

[Kowani]

Suspected mosque shooter arrives in court with two black eyes

Anders Wannabe got whooped good.

(Image)

Tripped and fell down some stairs.

[Tombradyonia]

Suspected mosque shooter arrives in court with two black eyes

Anders Wannabe got whooped good.

(Image)

Is that the humanoid entity that tried to do it? If so, he got off light.

Just "Eid Mubarak"..

Thank you. Iv'e only been to prayer 3 times.

I'm obviously speaking out of a little ignorance of Islam, as I am a Christian. But hey, we all come from the same god.

It's correct that you guys all have the same imaginary friend.

[Cekoviu]

Thank you. Iv'e only been to prayer 3 times.

I'm obviously speaking out of a little ignorance of Islam, as I am a Christian. But hey, we all come from the same god.

It's correct that you guys all have the same imaginary friend.

Jeez, why the drive-by? No need for that, even if it's true.

[Gormwood]

It's correct that you guys all have the same imaginary friend.

Jeez, why the drive-by? No need for that, even if it's true.

Ironic since contempt for or hatred of religion is what resulted in the attempted Christchurch here.

[United States of Devonta]

Suspected mosque shooter arrives in court with two black eyes

Anders Wannabe got whooped good.

(Image)

The 65 year old had some light injuries to his face. They probably got into an intense fight.

Obviously, judging from how this incident ended, the old grandpa kicked some Nazi ass.

[United States of Devonta]

It's correct that you guys all have the same imaginary friend.

Jeez, why the drive-by? No need for that, even if it's true.

Eh, I don't expect much from a cheating Pats fan. Let alone, a Brady clamchowder fanboi

[Tombradyonia]

Jeez, why the drive-by? No need for that, even if it's true.

Eh, I don't expect much from a cheating Pats fan. Let alone, a Brady clamchowder fanboi

If that's supposed to trigger me than it hilariously failed, kinda like this sorry pathetic excuse of a shooter. But thanks for the chuckle, bruh.

On an unrelated note, has Fox already explained how this guy really is a social democrat despite him being a Quisling fanboy (I didn't know those even existed) wishing for a hard right government in Norway.

[Cekoviu]

Jeez, why the drive-by? No need for that, even if it's true.

Ironic since contempt for or hatred of religion is what resulted in the attempted Christchurch here.

Oh, don't try to pull that bullshit. He wasn't doing it because he hated religion, he was doing it because he specifically and exclusively hated Islam.

[Marxist Germany]

That's great, I'm glad he prevented possibly another horrifying massacre like Christchurch from happening.