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ICE detains US citizen for a month

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What should we do about ICE?

Abolish ICE
67
39%
Make some changes (mend it, don't end it)
62
36%
ICE is fine as is
15
9%
We should give ICE even more powers
27
16%
 
Total votes : 171

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Rojava Free State
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ICE detains US citizen for a month

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:40 pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-u-s ... ?ocid=AMZN

So if you want the cliffnotes version of the article, an 18 year old Texas man was detained by ICE on his way to a school event. He was pulled over in his car by agents and even though he offered his ID and registration of his car, he was still detained because agents believed his ID was fake. He spent a month in detainment before finally being let go and plans to sue.

I'm genuinely beyond disgusted with ICE at this point. This is another American citizen being detained without trial by ICE, and held in inhospitable conditions within their detention centers. It's gotten to a point that I genuinely worry they might snatch me off the street one day on some garbage. I'm convinced now that there is next to no oversight of ICE and it is time the government step in and either abolish ICE or severely limit its powers and establish a board to overview ICE's actions. We cannot have a law enforcement agency willy nilly snatching people up without trial, accusing them of a crime they didn't even commit and holding them in facilities known for their poor conditions and abuse. Something has got to give. I support US control on immigration but there is a better way to protect our borders than by abusing people's rights, whether they're illegal immigrants or even worse when they aren't actually illegal immigrants. What are your thoughts Nsers? Do you think ICE needs to be abolished? Do you think they should keep it but make serious changes to its protocol? Or do you support the status quo and think ICE is a-ok? Let me know in the comments what you believe and why.

Also here's some other times ICE detained Americans

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/national- ... 61591.html

https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la- ... story.html

https://nypost.com/2018/04/27/ice-wrong ... ns-report/

https://fox13now.com/2018/12/03/hes-a-u ... im-anyway/

https://www.newsweek.com/ice-accused-wr ... ars-906746
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:17 pm

Considering all of these incidents, ICE should be abolished to protect US citizens.
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Victorious Decepticons
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Postby Victorious Decepticons » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:23 pm

Some agency needs to track down illegal immigrants for booting, so "abolishing" ICE will just result in it being renamed and rebranded. Its work will go on.

Therefore, I say we skip the "it's not ICE anymore, it's DICE" charade that inevitably comes from such renamings. Instead, we should fix the problems that have become endemic to the institution, starting with firing the head honchos who are currently allowing BS like snatching up citizens, general abuse, etc. to happen. Underlings who won't shape up should be fired as well. Real change, however, needs to start at least at the management level.

(No I am not saying to impeach Trump, before anyone tries to read that into my comment.)
Last edited by Victorious Decepticons on Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:24 pm

What laws enabled this abuse of a citizen? Change those laws.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:26 pm

Scomagia wrote:What laws enabled this abuse of a citizen? Change those laws.

He's brown.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:27 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-u-s-citizen-has-been-in-immigration-custody-for-nearly-a-month-due-to-a-paperwork-mix-up-attorney-says/ar-AAEJRNJ?ocid=AMZN

an 18 year old Texas man was detained by ICE on his way to a school event. He was pulled over in his car by agents and even though he offered his ID and registration of his car, he was still detained because agents believed his ID was fake. He spent a month in detainment before finally being let go

For fuck's sake. I can't imagine the conditions of his detainment were particularly pleasant either.
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SovCol
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Postby SovCol » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:28 pm

Scomagia wrote:What laws enabled this abuse of a citizen? Change those laws.


I don't think it's the laws that enabled them. More likely: the laws that they ignored.

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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:28 pm

New haven america wrote:
Scomagia wrote:What laws enabled this abuse of a citizen? Change those laws.

He's brown.

Super helpful post. No, really.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:30 pm

Scomagia wrote:
New haven america wrote:He's brown.

Super helpful post. No, really.

You're welcome. :)
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:30 pm

SovCol wrote:
Scomagia wrote:What laws enabled this abuse of a citizen? Change those laws.


I don't think it's the laws that enabled them. More likely: the laws that they ignored.

Then regulations need to be either enacted or better enforced to ensure no citizen is detained by ICE. I expect the lawsuit will end up very bad for ICE.
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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:30 pm

Time to abolish ICE and DHS to protect the rights of US citizens. Either create new agencies with better practice or subsume their functions into others. Both these agencies are far too big for their britches. Conservatives are supposed to be constitutionalists. Let's see them put their money where their mouths are.
Last edited by Cedoria on Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:31 pm

Geneviev wrote:Considering all of these incidents, ICE should be abolished to protect US citizens.


Umm ICE is much more than the ERO. Immigration enforcement is only one part of what ICE does.

Obviously the ERO component must be significantly reformed, maybe those responsibilities transferred to another agency but “abolish ICE” is based on ignorance of how ICE is structured and what it does.
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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:33 pm

Scomagia wrote:
SovCol wrote:
I don't think it's the laws that enabled them. More likely: the laws that they ignored.

Then regulations need to be either enacted or better enforced to ensure no citizen is detained by ICE. I expect the lawsuit will end up very bad for ICE.

That would require the current government and people in power to not support what they're doing.

Unfortunately, they do support what ICE is doing, so they're just gonna keep it running and maybe even lock up more American citizens based solely on skin color or ethnic background.
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:33 pm

Cedoria wrote:Time to abolish ICE and DHS to protect the rights of US citizens. Either create new agencies with better practice or subsume their functions into others. Both these agencies are far too big for their britches. Conservatives are supposed to be constitutionalises. Let's see them put their money where their mouths are.

And straight into the generalized partisan hostility. Lovely.
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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:34 pm

Novus America wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Considering all of these incidents, ICE should be abolished to protect US citizens.


Umm ICE is much more than the ERO. Immigration enforcement is only one part of what ICE does.

Obviously the ERO component must be significantly reformed, maybe those responsibilities transferred to another agency but “abolish ICE” is based on ignorance of how ICE is structured and what it does.


What else does ICE do?

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:35 pm

Cedoria wrote:Time to abolish ICE and DHS to protect the rights of US citizens. Either create new agencies with better practice or subsume their functions into others. Both these agencies are far too big for their britches. Conservatives are supposed to be constitutionalises. Let's see them put their money where their mouths are.


ERO is not all of ICE. HSI is not involved in these issues.
DHS is not even an agency.
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Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:38 pm

Such ICE agents should be fired, and that should be punished for any that ignore laws.
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NERVUN
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Postby NERVUN » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:38 pm

This seems very relevant to this thread: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ion-227357 The problem is that you have an agency that was created after 9-11 from what was and was changed with more anti-terrorism than what it should be doing.
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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:38 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Umm ICE is much more than the ERO. Immigration enforcement is only one part of what ICE does.

Obviously the ERO component must be significantly reformed, maybe those responsibilities transferred to another agency but “abolish ICE” is based on ignorance of how ICE is structured and what it does.


What else does ICE do?


“HSI special agents investigate violations of more than 400 U.S. laws that threaten the national security of the United States such as counter-proliferation and export violations, human rights violations/war crimes, human smuggling, art theft, human trafficking, drug smuggling and trafficking, arms trafficking, document and benefit fraud, the manufacturing and sale of counterfeit immigration and identity documents, transnational gangs, financial crimes including money laundering and bulk cash smuggling, trade-based money laundering (including trade finance and Kimberley Process investigations), computer crime, including child exploitation, intellectual property rights/trade fraud, import/export enforcement, trafficking of counterfeit pharmaceuticals and other merchandise, mass-marketing fraud, and international Cultural Property and Antiquities crimes.[19] HSI agents can be requested to provide security for VIPs, and also augment the U.S. Secret Service during overtaxed times such as special security events and elections.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Im ... nforcement
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:52 pm

The situation with the various departments and agencies minding immigration and border control can be solved and depoliticized, but that won't happen while Trump and his goonderlings are in office. The cruelty will remain the point of many apprehensions while they stay and have the power to dictate how anyone who appears remotely foreign must be treated.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:01 pm

NERVUN wrote:This seems very relevant to this thread: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ion-227357 The problem is that you have an agency that was created after 9-11 from what was and was changed with more anti-terrorism than what it should be doing.


People are so scared of terrorism, they're willing to give their own freedoms up for fake security. The government says they'll protect you from terrorists but what do you do when you need to be protected from your own government?
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:05 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
NERVUN wrote:This seems very relevant to this thread: https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ion-227357 The problem is that you have an agency that was created after 9-11 from what was and was changed with more anti-terrorism than what it should be doing.


People are so scared of terrorism, they're willing to give their own freedoms up for fake security. The government says they'll protect you from terrorists but what do you do when you need to be protected from your own government?


Elect Trump, apparently.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:09 pm

Duhon wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
People are so scared of terrorism, they're willing to give their own freedoms up for fake security. The government says they'll protect you from terrorists but what do you do when you need to be protected from your own government?


Elect Trump, apparently.


He's just another tool of the real people in power as far as I'm concerned and he's not working for the working class. He's also a very authoritarian person, probably in part because he's used to running a business and businesses aren't Democratic
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property, and sexy brown women

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:15 pm

Duhon wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
People are so scared of terrorism, they're willing to give their own freedoms up for fake security. The government says they'll protect you from terrorists but what do you do when you need to be protected from your own government?


Elect Trump, apparently.

Counter-terror mission creep started well before Trump. Stop it.
Last edited by Scomagia on Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cedoria
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Postby Cedoria » Tue Jul 23, 2019 5:17 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Cedoria wrote:Time to abolish ICE and DHS to protect the rights of US citizens. Either create new agencies with better practice or subsume their functions into others. Both these agencies are far too big for their britches. Conservatives are supposed to be constitutionalises. Let's see them put their money where their mouths are.

And straight into the generalized partisan hostility. Lovely.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where Democrats had become the party of government all of a sudden.

I thought it went without saying given that there's at least some Dems on record as supporting abolition of ICE, so I didn't include it. If you'd rather I state the bleeding obvious everytime I say something, I can.

Sure, Dems too, whatever. But they aren't the ones mostly blocking changes on this particular point.
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