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The Climate Change Thread: Or The Perils of Carbon

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Climate Change: What's Gonna Happen?

We're all going to die!!
16
15%
Things are going to get pretty bad!
40
37%
It might suck but we'll get by.
23
21%
We'll solve the problem before it gets too bad.
12
11%
Pfft. Climate change is a lot of bologna!
7
7%
Eh. Who cares? Got any beer?
9
8%
 
Total votes : 107

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Scomagia
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The Climate Change Thread: Or The Perils of Carbon

Postby Scomagia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:34 pm

The rundown: the vast majority of scientists across disciplines agree that our climate is drastically changing and it is human caused. What is murkier is just what's to come and how we may deal with it:
https://www.wired.com/story/climate-cha ... ertain/amp

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Alright we all know what climate change is and some of the predictions but what are your thoughts on the future? Are you a doomer who believes we're already screwed? Are you somewhat more optimistic that we'll be able to slow down carbon output and avert total catastrophe? Are you more optimistic still and believe climate change will be near totally averted by technology? Are you a skeptic who sees all this talk about climate change as a lot of hokum? Or are you totally indifferent?

I'm cautiously optimistic that we will be able to avert the worst possible outcomes (though I'm skeptical of doomsday models anyway) by sequestering the existing carbon or otherwise easing the problem with technology.

Post any cool technology you think has promise in climate change mitigation or methods you think will help remove or reduce our current carbon consumption catastrophe.

Have at it, NSG!
Last edited by Scomagia on Wed Jul 17, 2019 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:03 pm

We'll get what we deserve.

Climate change is not going to be avoided, in my opinion. The chaotic, reactionary free market doesn't like solutions, it likes problems. The average plebeian will have to migrate to other countries and be gunned down in the process, be poorer or simply die because of climate change but the rich will be fine and may even find more ways to profit off the misery of people and exert greater control over them. This is what matters in our world. Climate change a crisis that will have to be solved and solutions can be very profitable.

Of course, governments will implement carbon taxes (EU will by 2020), renewables will replace dirtier forms of energy and billions of additional trees will be planted in the near future. But believing that our declawed governments can do anything meaningful to stop the endless march of the free market is unhinged optimism.
Last edited by -Ocelot- on Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:09 pm

Given the current trends, I'm a full-on doomer. The most promising technology is carbon capture and storage, but it requires a shitload of manpower and storage space.
10 years ago, carbon taxes and increases in renewable energy would've helped. But with the biggest contributors to climate change (China, USA, Russia, Japan) not on board with those things then and still not on board now, we're pretty fucked. The even worse thing is that third-world countries are still contributing a metric fuckton of babies every year and the higher population means a) more people to pollute, and b) even more overpopulation, worsening starvation and overcrowding.
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Postby Scomagia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:11 pm

-Ocelot- wrote:We'll get what we deserve.

Climate change is not going to be avoided, in my opinion. The chaotic, reactionary free market doesn't like solutions, it likes problems. The average plebeian will have to migrate to other countries and be gunned down in the process, be poorer or simply die because of climate change but the rich will be fine and may even find more ways to profit off the misery of people and exert greater control over them. This is what matters in our world. Climate change a crisis that will have to be solved and solutions can be very profitable.

Of course, governments will implement carbon taxes (EU will by 2020), renewables will replace dirtier forms of energy and billions of additional trees will be planted in the near future. But believing that our declawed governments can do anything meaningful to stop the endless march of the free market is unhinged optimism.

Blaming it all on capitalism is pretty sketchy. I seem to remember the various Socialist states pillaging the land, as well.
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:14 pm

While visiting CA, I saw a lot of houses with solar panels on the roofs. Looked nifty.
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Postby Cekoviu » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:16 pm

Scomagia wrote:
-Ocelot- wrote:We'll get what we deserve.

Climate change is not going to be avoided, in my opinion. The chaotic, reactionary free market doesn't like solutions, it likes problems. The average plebeian will have to migrate to other countries and be gunned down in the process, be poorer or simply die because of climate change but the rich will be fine and may even find more ways to profit off the misery of people and exert greater control over them. This is what matters in our world. Climate change a crisis that will have to be solved and solutions can be very profitable.

Of course, governments will implement carbon taxes (EU will by 2020), renewables will replace dirtier forms of energy and billions of additional trees will be planted in the near future. But believing that our declawed governments can do anything meaningful to stop the endless march of the free market is unhinged optimism.

Blaming it all on capitalism is pretty sketchy. I seem to remember the various Socialist states pillaging the land, as well.

Yeah, I really doubt the outcome would be terribly different if socialism were the way of countries.
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Postby Scomagia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:18 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:While visiting CA, I saw a lot of houses with solar panels on the roofs. Looked nifty.

Yeah. Solar panels have come a long way.
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Postby Chan Island » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:33 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:While visiting CA, I saw a lot of houses with solar panels on the roofs. Looked nifty.


If only that was all it took. Truly, the biggest tragedy of this entire sorry saga has to be the way in which corporations managed to convince everyone that individuals are responsible for climate change, not them.

Oh, and that war somehow doesn't contribute to it too, but that's a lesser aspect.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Postby EastKekistan » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:48 pm

I think climate change is not going to be stopped because humans (and non-human animals) find it hard to cooperate without an external enemy.
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Postby Scomagia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:51 pm

EastKekistan wrote:I think climate change is not going to be stopped because humans (and non-human animals) find it hard to cooperate without an external enemy.

If only Captain Pollution was real...
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Postby EastKekistan » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:53 pm

Scomagia wrote:
EastKekistan wrote:I think climate change is not going to be stopped because humans (and non-human animals) find it hard to cooperate without an external enemy.

If only Captain Pollution was real...

Yeah. Or we can cook up some fake alien invasion.
Last edited by EastKekistan on Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1. 85% of the moon
2. 45% of Mars
3. The rest of the Solar System (Solar System is Division 0)
4. 27 other divisions (Division 1-27)
An alliance of racially Northeast Asian countries friendly with White Nationalists, Zionists and nationalists in the Middle East and India.
We are an alliance of rich, safe and clean nations. Rapid scientific development, space exploration, modern cities, skyscrapers and high-speed trains..you will enjoy ultra-modern life if you come and visit us.
We were a Tier 7, Level 0, Type 8 civilization according to this index. Our old map News By 3173 we rule over the universe.

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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Jul 17, 2019 3:59 pm

Scomagia wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:While visiting CA, I saw a lot of houses with solar panels on the roofs. Looked nifty.

Yeah. Solar panels have come a long way.


They have. I just wish they were a bit more affordable to some people. We’ve considered a full solar roof for our future home. But then again, I think this is a technology that suits places with weather like AZ or CA more than where I live currently.
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Postby -Ocelot- » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:10 pm

Scomagia wrote:
-Ocelot- wrote:We'll get what we deserve.

Climate change is not going to be avoided, in my opinion. The chaotic, reactionary free market doesn't like solutions, it likes problems. The average plebeian will have to migrate to other countries and be gunned down in the process, be poorer or simply die because of climate change but the rich will be fine and may even find more ways to profit off the misery of people and exert greater control over them. This is what matters in our world. Climate change a crisis that will have to be solved and solutions can be very profitable.

Of course, governments will implement carbon taxes (EU will by 2020), renewables will replace dirtier forms of energy and billions of additional trees will be planted in the near future. But believing that our declawed governments can do anything meaningful to stop the endless march of the free market is unhinged optimism.

Blaming it all on capitalism is pretty sketchy. I seem to remember the various Socialist states pillaging the land, as well.


There's more than 2 extremes out there. And we are currently heading towards the other extreme. How about you focus on our current system instead of one that's been dead for decades?

There is no 21st century socialism to make a real comparison. 20th century socialist states were in a relentless financial war against the west and were severely limited, especially compared to modern countries. It's not like they could choose between investing in solar arrays and sustainable agriculture instead of "pillaging the land" because these things didn't even exist when socialism was a real thing. How about we focus on the unsustainable practices real, existing private corporations choose to do, even though they could afford an alternative instead?

At some point we must stop blaming everything on a non-existent socialist boogeyman.
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Postby Chan Island » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:12 pm

-Ocelot- wrote:
Scomagia wrote:Blaming it all on capitalism is pretty sketchy. I seem to remember the various Socialist states pillaging the land, as well.


There's more than 2 extremes out there. And we are currently heading towards the other extreme. How about you focus on our current system instead of one that's been dead for decades?

There is no 21st century socialism to make a real comparison. 20th century socialist states were in a relentless financial war against the west and were severely limited, especially compared to modern countries. It's not like they could choose between investing in solar arrays and sustainable agriculture instead of "pillaging the land" because these things didn't even exist when socialism was a real thing. How about we focus on the unsustainable practices real, existing private corporations choose to do, even though they could afford an alternative instead?

At some point we must stop blaming everything on a non-existent socialist boogeyman.


Nah, but it's totally right for someone to blame socialism for climate change because Cuba is still calling itself socialist! :roll:
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Postby Northern Syria » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:14 pm

I don't think technology can cut it; to combat climate change, we need to seriously reevaluate our economic system which relies on continuous growth and rewards environmentally irresponsible behavior.
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Postby Cameroi » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:14 pm

well we are all going to die.

but in terms of the extinction of the human species, ignorance, indifference and hatred of logic are a real threat of that happening.

probably not immediately, and that is what enables people to deny probability.

what is immediate, within the next decade, is whether when the ecopocalypse really hits, as much as several decades latter, or as little as a very few years,
there will be a scattering of human survivors, or none at all.

we've passed the tipping points, i believe, that would have enabled us to avoid catastrophy entirely,
but that doesn't mean its too late to insure something human, or at least something human descended, will survive,
in the post ecopocalyptic rebirth.

much of what we will have to do then, because what we take for granted now will simply no longer be,
we could, by doing now, prevent most of the harm.

then of course there's the dice of the universe. there's no guarantees of anything.
but there are probabilities, and how our choices and actions affect them.

it isn't just climate and it isn't just carbon, though these are both central to the issue.
the warming itself accelerates the spread and mutation of disease, and affects weather PATTERNS in often unexpected ways.

but that's just the first phase, and almost mild enough to be ignored, denied and go unnoticed.

the second phase, and its a slow one, is the ice melts and the oceans rise.
by itself, that's not then end of anything unless you live on a small low lying island.

populations can and will, simply move inland as shores intrude.
but that is what will begin the second stage, the saline inundation of croplands with resulting widespread malnutrition,

which also increases suseptability to illness, while at the same time, these lost croplands, become breeding grounds
for the further rapid acceleration of disease mutation and the vectors which carry it.

the end point is everyone 'enjoying' long, lingering slow deaths for illnessess too new, to as yet have even names, let alone cures.

i am aware of the argument that cures for anything can eventually be found. and they could, given the 15 or 20 years it might take to do so,
but at this point, those years become simply no longer available.
(not when they're all mutating rapidly, and i mean very rapidly, into new and not yet treatable forms)

now some of the children who are born to their dying mothers might be born with immunities to some of these new diseases,
and eventually a new population of a new resulting species might stableize,

but these same mutations which might give that immunity,
are also likely to result in the viable human offspring, looking nothing like what humans expect humans to look like.

also in that process of course, the sapient population gets reduced to the point, that it no longer generates the carbon and other pollutants,
to the level they are now causing the problem.

so then nature will recover and enjoy a new springtime, this is the same way it corrects for any species that gets out of balance with its environment,
the only thing is, for humans, we may very well no longer be any part of that new environment.

so that is what we're getting to choose now, if there will be anything human or human descended, after that eco-pocalypse, or none at all.

the technologies to avoid doing things the environmentally dumb ways we're doing them now, and still be able to enjoy most of what we're familiar with,
already exist. many of them not even new. but we do need to shift incentives, to make that transition as immediate as possible, away primarily,
from fossil fuel dependence and consumption, and even nuclear, though in some ways a potential improvement, is not without its own problems.

energy and transportation technologies are part of the equasion, but population itself is also. these are the big three. deforestation is in there as number four.
and loss of species diversity from human habitat encroachment is right in there too, but all of these are driven by human population growth which needs to be curtailed and reversed.

a lot of attention has been given to the energy sector and that's fine, it needs to be. but not nearly enough is being paid to transportation, which i'm sorry, but as long as the automobile is the god of transportation policy, even if you could make all of them run on batteries, you still have the problem of the climate effects of too much pavement. so people times burning things is the problem. burning things not just to make power, but just as much burning things to propel transportation.

everything humane that lowers the human birthrate across the board without demographic bias or exception, is going to help, and that includes the acceptance of alternative sexuality, as well as birth prevention methods old and new, even as drastic as abortion. that and the other big one, not yet adiquitely addressed, is transitioning away from the automobile, and that means public transportation propelled by clean energy, and not just where there is traffic to justify large form factor systems, but diminutive form factor technologies applicable to the smallest communities and connecting them.
Last edited by Cameroi on Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:15 pm

In order to avoid death by climate change, we need real reform, and that cannot be left to the market. By the time the market shifts, it will be too late to avoid the effects. The Earth moves slowly. But, when it does finally move, it devastates.
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As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

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Postby Chan Island » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:18 pm

Kowani wrote:In order to avoid death by climate change, we need real reform, and that cannot be left to the market. By the time the market shifts, it will be too late to avoid the effects. The Earth moves slowly. But, when it does finally move, it devastates.


And the Earth is moving suspiciously fast right now.
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Postby Northern Syria » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:21 pm

Chan Island wrote:
Kowani wrote:In order to avoid death by climate change, we need real reform, and that cannot be left to the market. By the time the market shifts, it will be too late to avoid the effects. The Earth moves slowly. But, when it does finally move, it devastates.


And the Earth is moving suspiciously fast right now.

That's how we end climate change! Just push the Earth farther back from the Sun, and it's cooler. Problem solved.
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Postby Cameroi » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:46 pm

Northern Syria wrote:
Chan Island wrote:
And the Earth is moving suspiciously fast right now.

That's how we end climate change! Just push the Earth farther back from the Sun, and it's cooler. Problem solved.

nice try, but among other nagging little details, easier said then done.
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Postby Kowani » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:48 pm

Cameroi wrote:
Northern Syria wrote:That's how we end climate change! Just push the Earth farther back from the Sun, and it's cooler. Problem solved.

nice try, but among other nagging little details, easier said then done.

I believe that was a joke.
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Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

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Postby Imbalistan » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:49 pm

There is no way to beat climate change. We can try to control it and try to prevent us from going underwater, but climate change is not a win-lose scenario.
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Magocratic Aidonaia
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Postby Magocratic Aidonaia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 4:57 pm

Just start growing green stuff on all of our surfaces.

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Postby Neutraligon » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:00 pm

I think we need to incentivize not only people but also companies to make changes. We need to make it worth their while. We particularly need to look into things like nuclear. Solar farms and panels are great and all, in the right locations,but there are far to many places where they are simply too inefficient. In addition we need to make things like recycling easier. One of the reasons people don;t is partially because it is simply way to easy to throw things out. Many places do not have recycling bins and the such. Further, it would be nice if we had bins for compost, where people can throw away food. I do not know the regulations on restaurants giving away unused food at the end of the day, but it would be nice if we could incentivize them giving it to various shelters.
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Postby Novus America » Wed Jul 17, 2019 5:03 pm

Just a reminder Richard Nixon had a plan for the US to be air pollution free by 19 fucking 80!
Seriously fuck the anti-nuclear fanatics. Hope they feel good knowing this is all their fault.

We had the technology and ability to resolve this for decades.

But nah, fuck the environment in the name of radiophobia.

Oh and check this out.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshe ... power/amp/

Had California invested in nuclear instead of “renewables” they would be air pollution free too.

But again fuck the environment because nuclear scary. >:(
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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