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The importance of faith

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Geneviev
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The importance of faith

Postby Geneviev » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:24 pm

Most modern societies value logic and evidence more than faith. Faith is considered less valuable or a sign of being less educated or less intelligent. However, faith is one of the most underestimated virtues. Faith is not blindly accepting things written in the Bible, but trust that God will help you through difficult situations. It can help people through life because they can believe that something good will come to them and because it enables them to solve problems instead of focusing on the negative.

Considering the benefits of faith, should it be encouraged more in society?

I think faith is one of the most important things for people because it allows them to be more optimistic and have more hope. For those reasons, it should be valued by society and people should be encouraged to have faith.
Last edited by Geneviev on Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:39 pm

To quote Bernard Russel: “The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is to the same point that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.”
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As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

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Pacomia
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Postby Pacomia » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:42 pm

Eh, not really. In a time where science is more developed than ever before, it makes sense that there are more and more atheists because people are now more exposed to facts and other ways of thinking. I, being an atheist, believe that faith is completely unnecessary. Y’all are free to practice whatever religion, but don’t push it on the rest of us.
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Heraswed
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Postby Heraswed » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:42 pm

Hebrews 11:1: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."


The Bible defines faith as belief in what you cannot prove, this is a contemptible idea as it teaches us to be satisfied with not knowing facts of our universe and life. We should not encourage it and should instead encourage curiosity and an unquenchable thirst for knowledge.

Even without this, optimism is not necessarily a good thing. Going along on blind faith that 'God will sort out my troubles' discourages people from taking active steps that may be necessary. I've been a pessimist and a cynic for a good part of my life, and I firmly believe that optimism can lead to complacency, complacency is the enemy of success and as such to avoid complacency is a good thing.
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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:46 pm

Heraswed wrote:
Hebrews 11:1: "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."


The Bible defines faith as belief in what you cannot prove, this is a contemptible idea as it teaches us to be satisfied with not knowing facts of our universe and life. We should not encourage it and should instead encourage curiosity and an unquenchable thirst for knowledge.

Even without this, optimism is not necessarily a good thing. Going along on blind faith that 'God will sort out my troubles' discourages people from taking active steps that may be necessary. I've been a pessimist and a cynic for a good part of my life, and I firmly believe that optimism can lead to complacency, complacency is the enemy of success and as such to avoid complacency is a good thing.

Faith also encourages us to study the world and find answers to better understand God. Having hope that God is with you allows people to work to improve their lives because they have a better chance of being successful.
How many conductors does it take to screw in a light bulb? No one knows, no one ever looks at them.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:48 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Heraswed wrote:
The Bible defines faith as belief in what you cannot prove, this is a contemptible idea as it teaches us to be satisfied with not knowing facts of our universe and life. We should not encourage it and should instead encourage curiosity and an unquenchable thirst for knowledge.

Even without this, optimism is not necessarily a good thing. Going along on blind faith that 'God will sort out my troubles' discourages people from taking active steps that may be necessary. I've been a pessimist and a cynic for a good part of my life, and I firmly believe that optimism can lead to complacency, complacency is the enemy of success and as such to avoid complacency is a good thing.

Faith also encourages us to study the world and find answers to better understand God. Having hope that God is with you allows people to work to improve their lives because they have a better chance of being successful.

Or, alternatively, to sit around waiting for God to help them.
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Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:49 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Heraswed wrote:
The Bible defines faith as belief in what you cannot prove, this is a contemptible idea as it teaches us to be satisfied with not knowing facts of our universe and life. We should not encourage it and should instead encourage curiosity and an unquenchable thirst for knowledge.

Even without this, optimism is not necessarily a good thing. Going along on blind faith that 'God will sort out my troubles' discourages people from taking active steps that may be necessary. I've been a pessimist and a cynic for a good part of my life, and I firmly believe that optimism can lead to complacency, complacency is the enemy of success and as such to avoid complacency is a good thing.

Faith also encourages us to study the world and find answers to better understand God. Having hope that God is with you allows people to work to improve their lives because they have a better chance of being successful.


Have any evidence to back up that claim?
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The Sherpa Empire
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Postby The Sherpa Empire » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:51 pm

Christian faith? Absolutely not.

General optimism and perseverance? Sure.
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Wanasnaswan Archives
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Postby Wanasnaswan Archives » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:52 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Faith also encourages us to study the world and find answers to better understand God. Having hope that God is with you allows people to work to improve their lives because they have a better chance of being successful.


Have any evidence to back up that claim?

Of course, he doesn't, nobody does, that's what faith is, hope in some religious being that may help our afterlife.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:53 pm

Kowani wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Faith also encourages us to study the world and find answers to better understand God. Having hope that God is with you allows people to work to improve their lives because they have a better chance of being successful.

Or, alternatively, to sit around waiting for God to help them.

That wouldn't be Christian.

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Faith also encourages us to study the world and find answers to better understand God. Having hope that God is with you allows people to work to improve their lives because they have a better chance of being successful.


Have any evidence to back up that claim?

There's this.
How many conductors does it take to screw in a light bulb? No one knows, no one ever looks at them.
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:54 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kowani wrote:Or, alternatively, to sit around waiting for God to help them.

That wouldn't be Christian.

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Have any evidence to back up that claim?

There's this.


That’s optimism, not faith.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
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Kyoki Chudoku
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Postby Kyoki Chudoku » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:55 pm

Optimism can be good to have. It can eliminate sadness to an extent, make one feel better, encourage one to try and do better, and so on. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s no reason to necessarily integrate that into faith. Yes, that can be source of optimism, but it can just as easily be a source of terror or anger. As has been mentioned, a reliance on faith to resolve problems rather than taking action is, from my viewpoint at least, effectively equivalent to doing nothing about said problems. And the issue with faith is that, by one definition at least, it deals with that which lacks evidence to prove, so can in many cases be manipulated. That’s not to say that’s the only thing that can be, but as I see it, there’s no reason faith should have any greater place in modern society.

Of course, this is coming from someone with pretty much none of it.

I am curious though what the OP’s perspective is of faith in religions different to their own. Those too, after all, can provide a similar form of happiness for effectively the same reason. Should they also be promoted in that case, given the outlined benefits of faith they propose?
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:55 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Kowani wrote:Or, alternatively, to sit around waiting for God to help them.

That wouldn't be Christian.

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Have any evidence to back up that claim?

There's this.

Nothing about faith in there.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:55 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Geneviev wrote:That wouldn't be Christian.


There's this.


That’s optimism, not faith.

In this case, there's not much of a difference.
How many conductors does it take to screw in a light bulb? No one knows, no one ever looks at them.
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Nationalism, white supremacy, cutting music and arts programs, Donald Trump, AfD
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:55 pm

The importance of faith differs per person. Some people value faith immensely, others don't value it at all. That's the way the cookie crumbles, love people where they're at.
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Pacomia
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Postby Pacomia » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:55 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Heraswed wrote:
The Bible defines faith as belief in what you cannot prove, this is a contemptible idea as it teaches us to be satisfied with not knowing facts of our universe and life. We should not encourage it and should instead encourage curiosity and an unquenchable thirst for knowledge.

Even without this, optimism is not necessarily a good thing. Going along on blind faith that 'God will sort out my troubles' discourages people from taking active steps that may be necessary. I've been a pessimist and a cynic for a good part of my life, and I firmly believe that optimism can lead to complacency, complacency is the enemy of success and as such to avoid complacency is a good thing.

Faith also encourages us to study the world and find answers to better understand God. Having hope that God is with you allows people to work to improve their lives because they have a better chance of being successful.

Alternatively, it holds people back from actually achieving that success because they feel like they have to follow a strict moral code that conflicts with opportunity because they feel like they have to please God. I’m not saying people should be immoral, but we don’t have any way of knowing that the religious sense of morality is actually morality. Hell, we don’t even know if God exists.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex

Results of political tests I took meme INTP, also a Disaffected Democrat, according to the Pew Research Centre.
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.84946 (similar to Latvia)
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:57 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
That’s optimism, not faith.

In this case, there's not much of a difference.


There really is. Especially since, as mentioned above the article doesn’t once mention faith.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:58 pm

Kyoki Chudoku wrote:Optimism can be good to have. It can eliminate sadness to an extent, make one feel better, encourage one to try and do better, and so on. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s no reason to necessarily integrate that into faith. Yes, that can be source of optimism, but it can just as easily be a source of terror or anger. As has been mentioned, a reliance on faith to resolve problems rather than taking action is, from my viewpoint at least, effectively equivalent to doing nothing about said problems. And the issue with faith is that, by one definition at least, it deals with that which lacks evidence to prove, so can in many cases be manipulated. That’s not to say that’s the only thing that can be, but as I see it, there’s no reason faith should have any greater place in modern society.

Of course, this is coming from someone with pretty much none of it.

I am curious though what the OP’s perspective is of faith in religions different to their own. Those too, after all, can provide a similar form of happiness for effectively the same reason. Should they also be promoted in that case, given the outlined benefits of faith they propose?

Faith should be the best source of optimism because it can be shared with other people. It helps people take action because they can have more hope that they will be successful.

All religions that provide the same benefits should be encouraged.
How many conductors does it take to screw in a light bulb? No one knows, no one ever looks at them.
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Pacomia
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Postby Pacomia » Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:59 pm

Kyoki Chudoku wrote:Optimism can be good to have. It can eliminate sadness to an extent, make one feel better, encourage one to try and do better, and so on. There’s nothing wrong with that, but there’s no reason to necessarily integrate that into faith. Yes, that can be source of optimism, but it can just as easily be a source of terror or anger. As has been mentioned, a reliance on faith to resolve problems rather than taking action is, from my viewpoint at least, effectively equivalent to doing nothing about said problems. And the issue with faith is that, by one definition at least, it deals with that which lacks evidence to prove, so can in many cases be manipulated. That’s not to say that’s the only thing that can be, but as I see it, there’s no reason faith should have any greater place in modern society.

Of course, this is coming from someone with pretty much none of it.

I am curious though what the OP’s perspective is of faith in religions different to their own. Those too, after all, can provide a similar form of happiness for effectively the same reason. Should they also be promoted in that case, given the outlined benefits of faith they propose?

Yes, but it should be cautious optimism. I consider myself a realist, which many optimists just see as pessimism. Maybe it’s because no matter how you look at it, if you consider it enough you realise that everything is broken and terrible. But running too quickly into confidence/optimism can oftentimes lead to you becoming blind to what’s actually about to happen (if it hasn’t happened already) and just leads to failure that could have easily been avoided had you actually looked around and thought “Oh, maybe not everything is going to be peachy after all.”
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex

Results of political tests I took meme INTP, also a Disaffected Democrat, according to the Pew Research Centre.
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.84946 (similar to Latvia)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:00 pm

Pacomia wrote:
Geneviev wrote:Faith also encourages us to study the world and find answers to better understand God. Having hope that God is with you allows people to work to improve their lives because they have a better chance of being successful.

Alternatively, it holds people back from actually achieving that success because they feel like they have to follow a strict moral code that conflicts with opportunity because they feel like they have to please God. I’m not saying people should be immoral, but we don’t have any way of knowing that the religious sense of morality is actually morality. Hell, we don’t even know if God exists.

That isn't a problem with faith, but with how it's used. Faith shouldn't hold people back.
How many conductors does it take to screw in a light bulb? No one knows, no one ever looks at them.
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Pacomia
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Postby Pacomia » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:01 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Pacomia wrote:Alternatively, it holds people back from actually achieving that success because they feel like they have to follow a strict moral code that conflicts with opportunity because they feel like they have to please God. I’m not saying people should be immoral, but we don’t have any way of knowing that the religious sense of morality is actually morality. Hell, we don’t even know if God exists.

That isn't a problem with faith, but with how it's used. Faith shouldn't hold people back.

Perhaps it shouldn’t, but some people see it like that anyways. A healthy amount of religion might prove beneficial, but being a religious fanatic is not. You seem like you have a reasonable relationship with religion. That’s fine, but some don’t.
Last edited by Pacomia on Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This nation is based on (a slightly more extreme version of) my IRL opinions, and I answer issues accordingly.
Current accidental policies: No Sex

Results of political tests I took meme INTP, also a Disaffected Democrat, according to the Pew Research Centre.
Both the far left and far right are equally insane.
GLORY TO CASCADIA I’m a socialist. it’s different from communism. NUCLEAR ENERGY IS A GOOD THING!
CURRENT HDI: 0.84946 (similar to Latvia)
Also known as Dollar Store Kowani_________#EternalLotharia2020

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:02 pm

Dooom35796821595 wrote:
Geneviev wrote:In this case, there's not much of a difference.


There really is. Especially since, as mentioned above the article doesn’t once mention faith.

Faith is a source of optimism.
How many conductors does it take to screw in a light bulb? No one knows, no one ever looks at them.
Hessisch, German, 15 years old, musician
Immigration, religious freedom, music education in all schools, die Linke
Nationalism, white supremacy, cutting music and arts programs, Donald Trump, AfD
#EternalLotharia2020

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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:03 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Dooom35796821595 wrote:
There really is. Especially since, as mentioned above the article doesn’t once mention faith.

Faith is a source of optimism.


Not for everyone, and not the only source.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

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Skyhooked
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Postby Skyhooked » Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:04 pm

Kowani wrote:To quote Bernard Russel: “The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is to the same point that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.”


Well, who doesn't like good ol' booze? Maybe cuz it's givin' those happy feelings. As for faith... it's not only about religion. For atheists, agnostics and just not too religions followers, it's about good ol' luck or the hope. It can help you to push forward, when the logic says that odds are placed the way, that you are basically screwed.

It always tells ya' the truth, but it's also too cynical and soulless sometimes, and this may demoralize. Besides, there might be situation, when ya' can't get the info and may have to do the leap of faith.
Last edited by Skyhooked on Mon Jul 15, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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