NATION

PASSWORD

Should undocumented US migrants enjoy 2nd Amendment rights?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should the right to bear arms guaranteed in the US Constitution extend to undocumented migrants?

Yes, so they can defend themselves against a tyrannical government
40
18%
Yes, because they should have the same rights as everyone else
39
18%
No, because governments have the right to place common-sense restrictions on bearing arms
55
25%
No, because MAGA
85
39%
 
Total votes : 219

User avatar
US-SSR
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1117
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Corporate Police State

Should undocumented US migrants enjoy 2nd Amendment rights?

Postby US-SSR » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:49 pm

The Second Amendment speaks of "the right of the People to keep and bear Arms." In other Constitutional cases, "person" and "People" has been construed to include anyone physically in the US. Logically, undocumented migrants in the US should have the right to keep and bear arms.

One commonly cited reason for Amendment II is to enable the populace to defend itself against a tyrranical government. A government that seeks to put one's children in concentration camps and send one to a country one has fled from is by definition tyrranical. Again, logically, undocumented migrants in the US should have the right to keep and bear arms to defend themseves from the US government.

However, if US government has the right to restrict undocumented migrants' access to arms, why does it not have the right to make other common-sense restrictions on gun ownership including universal background checks, magazine size restrictions, or bans on semiautomatics and bump stocks?
Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came?
IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE!
I don't have a racist bone in my body!
SEND HER BACK! SEND HER BACK!
May God bless the memory of those who perished in Toledo.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 3069
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:50 pm

Are we even gonna pretend this is a serious country anymore?
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
The Liberated Territories
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11430
Founded: Dec 03, 2013
Capitalizt

Postby The Liberated Territories » Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:51 pm

Yes, because its a natural right.
"Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig."
—Robert Heinlein

User avatar
Crockerland
Senator
 
Posts: 4712
Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:10 pm

US-SSR wrote:However, if US government has the right to restrict undocumented migrants' access to arms, why does it not have the right to make other common-sense restrictions on gun ownership including universal background checks, magazine size restrictions, or bans on semiautomatics and bump stocks?

Well, you'd definitely need a restriction against common sense to get anyone to support that dumb shit.
National Liberalism, Nuclear & Geothermal Power, GMOs, Vaccines, Self-defense/gun rights, Biodiesel, Gay marriage, Transgender rights, Universal healthcare, Constitutional Carry, Emotional Support Twinks

US presidents 1796-2016 ranked / Worst of the UN / On the NRA and GOA / Strip the Wounded Knee murderers of the Medal of Honor / Is it Still Gay if the Boy is Cute?
"Freedom means freedom for everyone." -Former acting president Dick Cheney on gay marriage

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8333
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:11 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Yes, because its a natural right.


This really. But they should still leave.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12812
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:11 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Yes, because its a natural right.

Nah. It’s a privilege.
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41107
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:12 pm

US-SSR wrote:However, if US government has the right to restrict undocumented migrants' access to arms, why does it not have the right to make other common-sense restrictions on gun ownership including universal background checks, magazine size restrictions, or bans on semiautomatics and bump stocks?


Because not all rights listed in the constitution apply to non-citizens. Thread over.

User avatar
Dooom35796821595
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8875
Founded: Sep 11, 2011
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Dooom35796821595 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:12 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Yes, because its a natural right.


No, it’s an American obsession.
When life gives you lemons, you BURN THEIR HOUSE DOWN!
Anything can be justified if it is cool. If at first you don't succeed, destroy all in your way.
"Your methods are stupid! Your progress has been stupid! Your intelligence is stupid! For the sake of the mission, you must be terminated!”

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 3069
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:12 pm

Kowani wrote:
The Liberated Territories wrote:Yes, because its a natural right.

Nah. It’s a privilege.


Just like coming to America.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Kowani
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12812
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:15 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Kowani wrote:Nah. It’s a privilege.


Just like coming to America.

Not sure why you’re bringing this up, as I never asserted otherwise…
Narcissistic (Hedonistic) Nihilist. Yes, I am edgy. I know.
Dorgival R. Seč of the NS Parliament!
Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

User avatar
UIJ
Diplomat
 
Posts: 930
Founded: Oct 16, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby UIJ » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:18 pm

US-SSR wrote:However, if US government has the right to restrict undocumented migrants' access to arms, why does it not have the right to make other common-sense restrictions on gun ownership including universal background checks, magazine size restrictions, or bans on semiautomatics and bump stocks?

I don’t think you know what that word means. Or what you’re talking about in general.

Also, no. You’ve already committed one crime by being in the US illegally, so not only should you not be allowed a firearm, you are not allowed the same rights as a citizen of the US.
I don’t understand why that’s so hard for some people. If you’re here illegally, you’re not a citizen, thus the rights granted to citizens do not apply to you.
I may or may not be under the influence when posting
its truly the only way to post
None of my factbooks are up to date and they all kinda suck
so here's an overview
Join my region’s Discord, it’s pretty active.

"...think, of the rivers of blood, spilled by all those generals and emperors, so that in glory and triumph they can become the momentary masters, of a fraction, of a dot..."
- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot

”Don't be sad that it’s over, smile bacause it happened.”
- Adolf Hitler, 1945

User avatar
The Emerald Legion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6645
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:27 pm

Yes. They should all be armed, organized into military forces, then sent back to their countries of origin to overthrow said countries and add them as states to the USA. As part of this service, they, and any children they happen to have, should be given citizenship.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

User avatar
Free Arabian Nation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1735
Founded: May 02, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:29 pm

Eh. On one hand, I feel like people should be allowed to own a firearm. But on the other hand, they are coming in illegally so they're pretty much already criminals.

I'm a bit divided on this. But, who cares about what I think? I'm not American.
الأمة العربية الحرة
I don't use NS Stats
Baghdad Times: The Iranian Nationalist from Ahvaz proven wrong as war games show that "They can't stop all of us" is a terrible strategy and just leads to death... Typhoid to be "wiped out" by 1987, doctor claims... Indian Gov-in-Exile calls Abbas Ibn Arabiya "Dassm Eniuss", leading to confusion on both ends.

THERE NEVER WAS A DASSM, OUR LEADER HAS ALWAYS BEEN NAMED ABBAS IBN ARABIYA. TO SAY OTHERWISE IS A THOUGHTCRIME

User avatar
Chernoslavia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8333
Founded: Jun 13, 2011
Corporate Bordello

Postby Chernoslavia » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:30 pm

Free Arabian Nation wrote:Eh. On one hand, I feel like people should be allowed to own a firearm. But on the other hand, they are coming in illegally so they're pretty much already criminals.

I'm a bit divided on this. But, who cares about what I think? I'm not American.


I mean, if they came here for guns, let's give em guns. Let's let em get all the guns they can afford so they can take em back to Mexico and rid the country of the fucking cartels and their current corrupt and arrogant government that has restricted their gun rights in the first place.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

User avatar
Agrykkyskas
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 14
Founded: Feb 09, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Agrykkyskas » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:31 pm

Yeah? The only reason I could fathom to the contrary is the American myth that every immigrant is actually just a varying degree of a terrorist.
THE SIX CLANS OF AGRYKKYSKAS
TAANEIKSI|OVERVIEW|THE LANDING
SCN| Clan Redgrowth making notable effort towards Clan Reconstruction; given control of Iniskor. | Protests seen in The Claim, possible that the Klesos are demanding peace or capitulation in interest of ending the Long War. | Tak'ngaka migration into Chryse met with decreased sea traffic. Please share the waters with our seafaring friends!
LWNF| Klesos claim the Hellas Sea; small navy in place. | Small Klesos invasion of Marineris. Invasion was decimated in mere moments by Mar Agryk forces. | The Six Clans hail the Alban houses in a Call to Arms; all accept.
NS Stats are Klesos lies.

User avatar
Bluelight-R006
Senator
 
Posts: 3826
Founded: Mar 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Bluelight-R006 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:33 pm

The Liberated Territories wrote:Yes, because its a natural right.

No one thinks that way anymore.

User avatar
The Two Jerseys
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12242
Founded: Jun 07, 2012
Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:33 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Eh. On one hand, I feel like people should be allowed to own a firearm. But on the other hand, they are coming in illegally so they're pretty much already criminals.

I'm a bit divided on this. But, who cares about what I think? I'm not American.


I mean, if they came here for guns, let's give em guns. Let's let em get all the guns they can afford so they can take em back to Mexico and rid the country of the fucking cartels and their current corrupt and arrogant government that has restricted their gun rights in the first place.

I support this 100%.
"The Duke of Texas" is too formal for regular use. Just call me "Your Grace".
"If I would like to watch goodness, sanity, God and logic being fucked I would watch Japanese porn." -Nightkill the Emperor
"This thread makes me wish I was a moron so that I wouldn't have to comprehend how stupid the topic is." -The Empire of Pretantia
Head of State: HM King Louis
Head of Government: The Rt. Hon. James O'Dell MP, Prime Minister
Ambassador to the World Assembly: HE Sir John Ross "J.R." Ewing II, Bt.
Join Excalibur Squadron. We're Commandos who fly Spitfires. Chicks dig Commandos who fly Spitfires.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 3069
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:34 pm

Agrykkyskas wrote:Yeah? The only reason I could fathom to the contrary is the American myth that every immigrant is actually just a varying degree of a terrorist.


If we're arming people who come in illegally then let's just go full bore and invite a foreign power to land troops.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Free Arabian Nation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1735
Founded: May 02, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:35 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
I mean, if they came here for guns, let's give em guns. Let's let em get all the guns they can afford so they can take em back to Mexico and rid the country of the fucking cartels and their current corrupt and arrogant government that has restricted their gun rights in the first place.

I support this 100%.

I mean, we tried the US gov, the Russian Gov, and the Chinese Gov funding militias that ended up tearing countries another new one.

I don't see what would be in the harm of allowing civilians to fund militias
الأمة العربية الحرة
I don't use NS Stats
Baghdad Times: The Iranian Nationalist from Ahvaz proven wrong as war games show that "They can't stop all of us" is a terrible strategy and just leads to death... Typhoid to be "wiped out" by 1987, doctor claims... Indian Gov-in-Exile calls Abbas Ibn Arabiya "Dassm Eniuss", leading to confusion on both ends.

THERE NEVER WAS A DASSM, OUR LEADER HAS ALWAYS BEEN NAMED ABBAS IBN ARABIYA. TO SAY OTHERWISE IS A THOUGHTCRIME

User avatar
UIJ
Diplomat
 
Posts: 930
Founded: Oct 16, 2014
Left-Leaning College State

Postby UIJ » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:35 pm

Agrykkyskas wrote:Yeah? The only reason I could fathom to the contrary is the American myth that every immigrant is actually just a varying degree of a terrorist.

Er, no.
They could be the nicest person in the world, it doesn’t matter who they are or where they’re from. A person who illegally enters a country is there illegally, and cannot enjoy the same rights as a citizen.

And it’s generally a good idea to not arm unknowns, not because every American is apparently a racist, but because that’s a really fucking stupid idea.
I may or may not be under the influence when posting
its truly the only way to post
None of my factbooks are up to date and they all kinda suck
so here's an overview
Join my region’s Discord, it’s pretty active.

"...think, of the rivers of blood, spilled by all those generals and emperors, so that in glory and triumph they can become the momentary masters, of a fraction, of a dot..."
- Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot

”Don't be sad that it’s over, smile bacause it happened.”
- Adolf Hitler, 1945

User avatar
Highever
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1860
Founded: Dec 21, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Highever » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:36 pm

Agrykkyskas wrote:Yeah? The only reason I could fathom to the contrary is the American myth that every immigrant is actually just a varying degree of a terrorist.

To be fair, if they entered the nation illegally then they have committed a crime and therefore not eligible to own a firearm just like anyone else in the United States.
ΦΣK
⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
Remember Bloody Sunday
A wise man once said, ("We all dead, fuck it")
There's something in the water
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.

User avatar
Tristainland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 50
Founded: Jul 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Tristainland » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:45 pm

No. I am in favor of more gun restrictions and among those restrictions is that criminals should not be allowed access to firearms.

User avatar
Highever
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1860
Founded: Dec 21, 2014
New York Times Democracy

Postby Highever » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:46 pm

Tristainland wrote:No. I am in favor of more gun restrictions and among those restrictions is that criminals should not be allowed access to firearms.

That is already a restriction that is in place.
ΦΣK
⚦ Through the souls of your brothers and sisters I take My place amongst the Three; through their pleasure I ascend my Throne. Pleasure, for Pleasure's sake! ⚦
Remember Bloody Sunday
A wise man once said, ("We all dead, fuck it")
There's something in the water
Jolthig wrote:Use Soresu and not Juyo.
Charlie Chaplin wrote:Nothing is permanent in this wicked world, not even our troubles.

User avatar
Tristainland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 50
Founded: Jul 10, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Tristainland » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:48 pm

Highever wrote:
Tristainland wrote:No. I am in favor of more gun restrictions and among those restrictions is that criminals should not be allowed access to firearms.

That is already a restriction that is in place.


And yet criminals still find loopholes sometimes. Gun shows anyone?

User avatar
Arlenton
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8796
Founded: Dec 16, 2012
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Arlenton » Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:49 pm

Pretty sure non-citizens have constitutional rights.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aclion, Aggicificicerous, An Alan Smithee Nation, Andsed, Attempted Socialism, Bloodshade, Card slave 1, Cerinda, Eastfield Lodge, Ethel mermania, Fartsniffage, Greater Loegria, Holy Tedalonia, Kenmoria, LiberNovusAmericae, Liriena, Luniten, Majestic-12 [Bot], Munkcestrian Republic, Nakena, North German Realm, Ors Might, Phoenicaea, Redternetia, Rio Cana, Side 3, Skyhooked, The Greater Ohio Valley, The Huskar Social Union, The New California Republic, The Vexian Union, Thermodolia, Tuthina, Uiiop, UniversalCommons, Vassenor, Washington Resistance Army, Xmara

Advertisement

Remove ads