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Satanists Denied Invocation at Boston City Council Meeting

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San Lumen
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Satanists Denied Invocation at Boston City Council Meeting

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:33 pm

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 026358002/
https://www.bostonherald.com/2019/02/14 ... y-council/
This is story is a few months old but i thought it raised an interesting question.

Most city councils in the US begin all meetings with a invocation or a spoken prayers of sorts. I would assume the practice is done in other countries as well

In Boston several religions have done the invocation and the Satanic Temple of Salem wanted a turn.

The Temple was however denied and the group headquartered in nearby Salem filed a complaint of religious discrimination and violation of the first amendment with the Massachusetts Commission Against Discrimination.

According to USA Today "the council's attorney, according to the complaint, responded by telling the group that the body does not accept requests to deliver invocations, has no formal policy regarding invocations and simply allows individual council members to choose who leads them" The leader of the Temple said "The very definition of discrimination is preferential treatment of different groups or individuals," Jarry said. "Because they are the ones who are solely making the decisions, it can't help but be discriminatory."

In my opinion they should have been allowed to give the invocation. Its not unprecedented. A few cities in recent years have allowed it including a few towns in Alaska and other places and a famous one in Pensacola from 2016 which has to be one of the most entertaining things i've ever watched. There is no state religion and it makes no sense to deny them as the first amendment protects freedom of religion. Nothing bad happened at previous satanic invocations and who am I to judge them? Let them do the reading. Its harming no one.

What do you think NSG? Should the invocation have been denied?
Last edited by San Lumen on Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:48 pm, edited 9 times in total.

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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:44 pm

This seems like the sort of stunt that would've been funny back in 2003.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:44 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:This seems like the sort of stunt that would've been funny back in 2003.

Why do you call it a stunt?

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:45 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:This seems like the sort of stunt that would've been funny back in 2003.

Why do you call it a stunt?

Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:47 pm

Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Why do you call it a stunt?

Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:47 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:This seems like the sort of stunt that would've been funny back in 2003.


This pretty much ^^
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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:48 pm

But what if allowing the Satanic Temple to do the invocation would undermine the relations between the city council and the people they represent?
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:48 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe


Religion is hard to believe, but here we are.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:48 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Bluelight-R006
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Postby Bluelight-R006 » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:49 pm

Some people feel hurt by such an action, I guess.

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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:49 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe


Better roll out the red carpet for the Jedi then.

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:50 pm

Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe

That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.


How easy?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm

Telconi wrote:
Galloism wrote:That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.


How easy?

You typically register with your state as an incorporated religious organization, apply for an ein and then technically you don’t have to do anything else.

Religions get automatic 501c3 status.

Some will do an application anyway to give donors assurance. It’ll run you from 1000-1500 in user fees and accountant fees if you decide to.

But technically that’s not required.
Last edited by Galloism on Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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San Lumen
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Posts: 28653
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby San Lumen » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm

Telconi wrote:But what if allowing the Satanic Temple to do the invocation would undermine the relations between the city council and the people they represent?

What kind of question is that? If they wanted do one in my city I would have no problem with it. There is also something called the first amendment in case you forgot.
Telconi wrote:
Galloism wrote:That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.


How easy?


This will tell you all about how easy it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y1xJAVZxXg

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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm

Telconi wrote:
Galloism wrote:That’s a ridiculously easy hurdle.


How easy?


You literally just fill out the form for a 501(c)(3) organization.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:53 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Telconi wrote:
How easy?


You literally just fill out the form for a 501(c)(3) organization.

Not even.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Bear Stearns
Minister
 
Posts: 2094
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:55 pm

Galloism wrote:
Telconi wrote:
How easy?

You typically register with your state as an incorporated religious organization, apply for an ein and then technically you don’t have to do anything else.

Religions get automatic 501c3 status.

Some will do an application anyway to give donors assurance. It’ll run you from 1000-1500 in user fees and accountant fees if you decide to.

But technically that’s not required.


You don't even need to prove that you actually have a doctrine or belief system.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58878
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:56 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Galloism wrote:You typically register with your state as an incorporated religious organization, apply for an ein and then technically you don’t have to do anything else.

Religions get automatic 501c3 status.

Some will do an application anyway to give donors assurance. It’ll run you from 1000-1500 in user fees and accountant fees if you decide to.

But technically that’s not required.


You don't even need to prove that you actually have a doctrine or belief system.

Nope.

Although the irs sometimes investigates the organization if they think it has no legitimate religious nature and is being used as a tax shelter.

Those have gotten less in recent years, though.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Bear Stearns
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Posts: 2094
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Anarchy

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:57 pm

Galloism wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
You don't even need to prove that you actually have a doctrine or belief system.

Nope.

Although the irs sometimes investigates the organization if they think it has no legitimate religious nature and is being used as a tax shelter.

Those have gotten less in recent years, though.


murica
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

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US-SSR
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Postby US-SSR » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:58 pm

Telconi wrote:But what if allowing the Satanic Temple to do the invocation would undermine the relations between the city council and the people they represent?


Then arguably allowing a Christian, Jewish or Islamic invocation would do the same. The solution is simple: end invocations before meetings of governmental bodies. Oh and the Hub council is going to lose in court.
Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came?
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Tue Jun 25, 2019 9:58 pm

Boston can go to hell.
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:00 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Because it is.

I still think it’s a funny stunt, and it makes us question our practices and procedures, so it, like a lot of stunts, serves a legitimate public purpose.

I approve.

How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe


It's a stunt because the Satanists are likely doing it to prove a point about the First Amendment and not because they are sincerely worried about the Boston city council securing Satan's blessing.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58878
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:01 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe


It's a stunt because the Satanists are likely doing it to prove a point about the First Amendment and not because they are sincerely worried about the Boston city council securing Satan's blessing.

Well Satan is the ruler of the world....
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
US-SSR
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Posts: 1025
Founded: Aug 02, 2018
Corporate Police State

Postby US-SSR » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:02 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
San Lumen wrote:How is it a stunt? Its a recognized religion by the IRS however hard that is to believe


It's a stunt because the Satanists are likely doing it to prove a point about the First Amendment and not because they are sincerely worried about the Boston city council securing Satan's blessing.


Darn that tricky Bill of Rights. Just like the stunt Martin Luther King pulled in Selma that one time. Or that Stonewall stunt.
Why don't they go back and help fix the totally broken and crime infested places from which they came?
IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY HERE, YOU CAN LEAVE!
I don't have a racist bone in my body!

User avatar
Neanderthaland
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Posts: 3176
Founded: Sep 10, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Neanderthaland » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:02 pm

Galloism wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
It's a stunt because the Satanists are likely doing it to prove a point about the First Amendment and not because they are sincerely worried about the Boston city council securing Satan's blessing.

Well Satan is the ruler of the world....

I was under the impression that politicians had his blessing by default.
Ug make fire. Mod ban Ug.

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