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72 Philly Police Officers off patrol after Racist Posts

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San Lumen
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72 Philly Police Officers off patrol after Racist Posts

Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:26 am

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/video ... ook-posts/

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/19/73424121 ... cial-media

https://nypost.com/2019/06/20/philadelp ... ook-posts/

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/201 ... ebook.html

72 police officers in Philadelphia are on administrative leave after violent, racist and xenophobic comments were found on Facebook.

According to the Slate article posts consisted of "officers commenting that apprehended suspects— black men— ‘should be dead’ or ‘should have more lumps on his head. In other posts officers advocated shooting looters on sight and using cars to run over protestors, Other appeared to joke about beating or raping women or had bigoted views on Islam and Muslims." These men or women have no business being officers.

Police Commissioner Richard Ross said there will be an internal investigation to determine what action will be taken including termination and if the officers in question violated department protocol. Anti bias and racist training will be conducted and periodic audits of officers social media accounts will be conducted according the the Commissioner. The city has also hired a law firm to sift through the nearly 3100 posts deemed offensive

The mayor of Philadelphia Jim Kenney called the posts extremely disturbing.

In my opinion the Commissioner is doing the right thing. An officer of the law protects all and if they have racist, xenophobic or anti islam views than perhaps they should not be a cop. Its easy to say oh its freedom of speech but things are different when one is a cop.

In a diverse city like Philadelphia such actions by officers could be seen as not caring about parts of the community and damage police relations. If officers appear not to be impartial parts of the community might not want to work with them.

What's your opinion NSG? Is the Commissioner doing the right thing?
Last edited by San Lumen on Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:59 am, edited 6 times in total.

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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:35 am

Not until their termination from the force is confirmed.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:36 am

-Ocelot- wrote:Not until their termination from the force is confirmed.

That is a very strong possibility. The Commissioner said its likely

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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:39 am

If you're ready to post something in public, then you should face the consequences.

And anyway, free speech states that the government cannot take action against you, not a private company. I understand that free speech does involve hate speech, but there has been a long history of companies taking action (and being within their right to take an action) against people who propagate hate speech.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:40 am

The South Falls wrote:If you're ready to post something in public, then you should face the consequences.

And anyway, free speech states that the government cannot take action against you, not a private company. I understand that free speech does involve hate speech, but there has been a long history of companies taking action (and being within their right to take an action) against people who propagate hate speech.

Exactly. Just because speech might be protected from government action doesn't mean who you work for should tolerate it and that includes government entities.

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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:42 am

The South Falls wrote:If you're ready to post something in public, then you should face the consequences.

And anyway, free speech states that the government cannot take action against you, not a private company. I understand that free speech does involve hate speech, but there has been a long history of companies taking action (and being within their right to take an action) against people who propagate hate speech.


I mean, technically, the police aren't a private company and are an arm of the government.

That being said. Those guys are so fucked it isn't even funny. The government does not like bad publicity at all...
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:52 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
The South Falls wrote:If you're ready to post something in public, then you should face the consequences.

And anyway, free speech states that the government cannot take action against you, not a private company. I understand that free speech does involve hate speech, but there has been a long history of companies taking action (and being within their right to take an action) against people who propagate hate speech.


I mean, technically, the police aren't a private company and are an arm of the government.

That being said. Those guys are so fucked it isn't even funny. The government does not like bad publicity at all...

Some of the posts are beyond reprehensible. These men or women have no business being officers.

and the Police Department certainly doesnt want bad publicity either.

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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:05 am

The South Falls wrote:If you're ready to post something in public, then you should face the consequences.

And anyway, free speech states that the government cannot take action against you, not a private company. I understand that free speech does involve hate speech, but there has been a long history of companies taking action (and being within their right to take an action) against people who propagate hate speech.

I don’t think the police force is a private company though? It’s run at the state or local level. I don’t know about things like cities or towns but I do know that the Bill of Rights is something that the states have to abide by.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:07 am

Ors Might wrote:
The South Falls wrote:If you're ready to post something in public, then you should face the consequences.

And anyway, free speech states that the government cannot take action against you, not a private company. I understand that free speech does involve hate speech, but there has been a long history of companies taking action (and being within their right to take an action) against people who propagate hate speech.

I don’t think the police force is a private company though? It’s run at the state or local level. I don’t know about things like cities or towns but I do know that the Bill of Rights is something that the states have to abide by.


As far as know its not. That doesnt mean the department has tolerate bigotry. Some of the posts are beyond disturbing. I went through the link in the Slate article and its hard to get through.

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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:12 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:I don’t think the police force is a private company though? It’s run at the state or local level. I don’t know about things like cities or towns but I do know that the Bill of Rights is something that the states have to abide by.


As far as know its not. That doesnt mean the department has tolerate bigotry. Some of the posts are beyond disturbing. I went through the link in the Slate article and its hard to get through.

Do police officers give up their first amendment rights upon becoming officers? If not, then it boils down to whether or not these posts leave them objectively less capable of doing their jobs. I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting that to be the case for every officer affected by this.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:14 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
As far as know its not. That doesnt mean the department has tolerate bigotry. Some of the posts are beyond disturbing. I went through the link in the Slate article and its hard to get through.

Do police officers give up their first amendment rights upon becoming officers? If not, then it boils down to whether or not these posts leave them objectively less capable of doing their jobs. I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting that to be the case for every officer affected by this.

Never said they did. But its likey that someone who posts stuff like that brings it to work with them. That is why there will be an investigation and a law firm was brought it.

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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:15 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
The South Falls wrote:If you're ready to post something in public, then you should face the consequences.

And anyway, free speech states that the government cannot take action against you, not a private company. I understand that free speech does involve hate speech, but there has been a long history of companies taking action (and being within their right to take an action) against people who propagate hate speech.


I mean, technically, the police aren't a private company and are an arm of the government.

That being said. Those guys are so fucked it isn't even funny. The government does not like bad publicity at all...

Technically, but, legal action, is what I meant.

And they rightfully should be.
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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:17 am

San Lumen wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Do police officers give up their first amendment rights upon becoming officers? If not, then it boils down to whether or not these posts leave them objectively less capable of doing their jobs. I haven’t seen any evidence suggesting that to be the case for every officer affected by this.

Never said they did. But its likey that someone who posts stuff like that brings it to work with them. That is why there will be an investigation and a law firm was brought it.

If they don’t lose their first amendment rights then the department does have to tolerate bigotry if said bigotry doesn’t negatively impact the performance of the officer.

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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:22 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Never said they did. But its likey that someone who posts stuff like that brings it to work with them. That is why there will be an investigation and a law firm was brought it.

If they don’t lose their first amendment rights then the department does have to tolerate bigotry if said bigotry doesn’t negatively impact the performance of the officer.


That is why there is an investigation.

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Postby Purpelia » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:24 am

As much as I can understand why this was done I feel it is fundamentally wrong for a business to punish its employees for something they do on their own free time. Bad publicity should not be a reason to punish someone. Investigate? Maybe.
Last edited by Purpelia on Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:24 am

Purpelia wrote:As much as I can understand why this was done I feel it is fundamentally wrong for a business to punish its employees for something they do on their own free time.


Its perfectly ok for police officers to post racist, xenophobic comments online?

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Postby Thermodolia » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:25 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Never said they did. But its likey that someone who posts stuff like that brings it to work with them. That is why there will be an investigation and a law firm was brought it.

If they don’t lose their first amendment rights then the department does have to tolerate bigotry if said bigotry doesn’t negatively impact the performance of the officer.

You are held to a higher standard as an officer than a member of the public. Joe Q Public could get away with shit like this but an officer wouldn’t
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Postby Kowani » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:26 am

Purpelia wrote:As much as I can understand why this was done I feel it is fundamentally wrong for a business to punish its employees for something they do on their own free time. Bad publicity should not be a reason to punish someone. Investigate? Maybe.

In American business culture, one is always on the clock, PR wise.
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:26 am

Purpelia wrote:As much as I can understand why this was done I feel it is fundamentally wrong for a business to punish its employees for something they do on their own free time. Bad publicity should not be a reason to punish someone. Investigate? Maybe.

If I cuss out my boss, on my free time, the company can and might/will still fire me.
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The South Falls
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Postby The South Falls » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:27 am

Ors Might wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Never said they did. But its likey that someone who posts stuff like that brings it to work with them. That is why there will be an investigation and a law firm was brought it.

If they don’t lose their first amendment rights then the department does have to tolerate bigotry if said bigotry doesn’t negatively impact the performance of the officer.

Said bigotry could cause an officer to, say, unlawfully assault someone in the process of an arrest.
This is an MT nation that reflects some of my beliefs, trade deals and debate always welcome! Call me TeaSF. A level 8, according to This Index.


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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:28 am

The South Falls wrote:
Ors Might wrote:If they don’t lose their first amendment rights then the department does have to tolerate bigotry if said bigotry doesn’t negatively impact the performance of the officer.

Said bigotry could cause an officer to, say, unlawfully assault someone in the process of an arrest.

Exactly hence why it warrants investigation. Someone who posts things like what these officers did its very possible they bring it to work with them

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Postby Ifreann » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:30 am

How shocking that violent racists and bigots joined the police force, where they can be violent against people they hate and get away with it.
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Postby Dogmeat » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:35 am

I knew this was going to be bad when the next word after "Philly" wasn't "cheese."
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Postby His Excellence » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:37 am

Ors Might wrote:If they don’t lose their first amendment rights then the department does have to tolerate bigotry if said bigotry doesn’t negatively impact the performance of the officer.

This is an oxymoronic proposition. Even if a bigoted person consciously attempts to "leave their prejudice at the door" so to speak, they will still be subject to subconscious prejudice that influences how they treat individuals from groups they are bigoted against. A police officer who voices prejudicial views (whether publicly or in private) absolutely cannot be trusted to conduct themselves in a matter that is completely divorced from their prejudice, and is thus unfit to act as an unbiased enforcer of law.
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San Lumen
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Postby San Lumen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:46 am

Ifreann wrote:How shocking that violent racists and bigots joined the police force, where they can be violent against people they hate and get away with it.


In this case they are not. The city is taking action

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