NATION

PASSWORD

Would you vote for Tom?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

What do you do?

I vote for Tom
135
92%
I vote for the Opposition
3
2%
I'm not voting
8
5%
 
Total votes : 146

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25646
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Would you vote for Tom?

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:02 am

Please consider the following hypothetical:

You live in the United States. The Presidential election is coming up.

Tom is one of the candidates. His political views are close to your own and there is a very strong, realistic chance that he could get elected. Before running for president, he has a very strong track record for getting things done in the the White House as a member of the legislature (and he's still very young). In public, Tom is very charismatic and appears to be very kind.

His opponent is a bland, standard run of the mill politician. However, he also has a realistic chance of being elected because no matter what he does, close to half of voters will vote for him because of the nature of US politics.

So far, neither Tom nor his Opponent have been involved in any scandals.

In the days leading up to the vote however, you (and only you) become aware of an unpleasant aspect of Tom's past.

After graduating from Harvard, Tom went on to attend Harvard Law School. During his days at Harvard, he was a bit of a prick. In the sense that he was an over-achiever and had a policy of forming an exclusive Study Group. In this Study Group, people could only join if they did their undergrad from Harvard (or Yale and several Number One Tier schools)... people from "lesser Ivies" and "lesser schools" were not allowed. Tom personally booted a few of his classmates out of this Study Group when he found out that they had lied about which school they went to during undergrad. Tom was Number One in his class but he apparently practiced discrimination with respect to the highly prestigious Study Group he ran based on your undergrad school.

You find out about this from one of Tom's old friends, however, the friend tells you that it's against Harvard's Code of Honour to spread bad rumours about their ex graduates. So you are 100% sure that no one is going to the press about this.

...

The discussion question is this. Are you still going to vote for Tom?

Other than this strange behaviour from Harvard Law, he's an ideal candidate in the sense that his political views are yours and there's a strong chance he could get elected. He's young and has an impressive record of legislative achievements and experience in government and business.

As far you've seen, he seems to be very polite and nice on television.

However, you become aware of his Harvard antics. Please assume that this is 100% True (and you know it to be True).

Your options:

1. Vote for Tom
2. Vote for the Opposition
3. Don't Vote in the election

There are no third party runners with a realistic chance of winning the election.

Please discuss.

I created this scenario mainly to see how others would vote. As you know, I do not participate in the votes. IRL I probably would stay at home during the election because I don't consider my one vote to do anything.
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 53325
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:04 am

Vote for Tom.

All I have so far is hearsay.
Former mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
Heaven is other people
Behind the invisible hand of the market hides the iron fist of the state.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain
Silent is an anagram of listen.
Proud adopter of a lamb called violet: http://imgur.com/a/pxnSf
Male. Please address me as 'he'.
This is the 8th line. If your sig is longer than mine, it is too long.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25646
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:06 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:Vote for Tom.

All I have so far is hearsay.


what if you knew it to be 100% true?
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

User avatar
North German Realm
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1711
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:06 am

Ok, but your premises is flawed. Tom is, in this scenario, an elitist -to the point of memery, and not even a good elitist either, but an elitist nonetheless-, which can be against the political ideology some of us hold. I'm neither an elitist nor a populist, so I won't really care. Given I know jackshit about the "other" politician in your scenario -especially his political campaign- I'm going to risk it and vote for Tom. He's close to my own political ideals, and provided he'll act on what he's promised during his campaign, his elitism is really going to be temporary and will help my own political agenda, so its really a no-brainer.
------------------
------------------
------------------
------------------
------------------
------------------
North Germany
Norddeutschland

As The Great War wages, North Germans lose six men for every meter of land they reclaim from Allied Occupation!
Overview || Kaiser | Chancellor | Legislature | Military || News: 10 December, 1908

User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 53325
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:09 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:Vote for Tom.

All I have so far is hearsay.


what if you knew it to be 100% true?


How would I know this?
Former mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
Heaven is other people
Behind the invisible hand of the market hides the iron fist of the state.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain
Silent is an anagram of listen.
Proud adopter of a lamb called violet: http://imgur.com/a/pxnSf
Male. Please address me as 'he'.
This is the 8th line. If your sig is longer than mine, it is too long.

User avatar
Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51090
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:11 am

So his big scandal is being an elitist? What next are you gonna tell me that politicians lie?!
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
Click for Da Funies
Click Here for RP Info Embassy Program
Ambassadors to the WA:
Ambassador to the GA Jon Æthr
Ambassador to the SC Eve Šanœ

RIP Dya

User avatar
Rhodesia-Zimbabwe
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Mar 11, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rhodesia-Zimbabwe » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:12 am

That doesn't sway my vote, a politican could be a bumbling oaf with developmental issues or an absolute asshat with a constant migraine and I might still vote for them. My vote is solely contingent on my confidence in them to vote for laws that I agree with and against laws that I disagree with. Also, what do you mean "he has a very strong track record for getting things done in the the White House as a member of the legislature"?
Last edited by Rhodesia-Zimbabwe on Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
I saw a terr on the bundu track
He had a landmine in his pack
When the troopies opened fire
They found his head in Bulawayo!

User avatar
Bluelight-R006
Minister
 
Posts: 2548
Founded: Mar 31, 2017
Anarchy

Postby Bluelight-R006 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:17 am

I’m not surprised. Everyone, not just politicians, have dirty pasts. Unfortunately, there’s a huge problem that lies in the way. So knowing this, and knowing that I have nothing better to do, nor nothing better to have, I’d choose Option 3. Don’t vote in the election.

User avatar
-Ocelot-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1359
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby -Ocelot- » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:33 am

Tom's actions appear to be highly un-american. I'd therefore vote for the opposition.
Post tenebras lux


⭐No such thing as too much yellow⭐

User avatar
Heloin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5562
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:43 am

This is probably the least important and least serious scandal in American History.
And there but for fortune, may go you or I.

My Names Jennifer, a 20 something Rabbit and Rhodie Girl. Proudly Zimbabwean, and currently a Floridian too. TET Disc Jockey.
I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! I draw things and make pixel stuff. And now maps! Take a look!

User avatar
-Ocelot-
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1359
Founded: Jun 14, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby -Ocelot- » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:45 am

Heloin wrote:This is probably the least important and least serious scandal in American History.


it tells a lot about the candidate's character, however. Imagine applying his logic to how the country should be governed.
Post tenebras lux


⭐No such thing as too much yellow⭐

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15904
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:46 am

Sure why not. Every single politician out there has at least a little dirt under their nails. In fact, I wouldn't trust one that didn't.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25646
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:50 am

North German Realm wrote:Ok, but your premises is flawed. Tom is, in this scenario, an elitist -to the point of memery, and not even a good elitist either, but an elitist nonetheless-, which can be against the political ideology some of us hold. I'm neither an elitist nor a populist, so I won't really care. Given I know jackshit about the "other" politician in your scenario -especially his political campaign- I'm going to risk it and vote for Tom. He's close to my own political ideals, and provided he'll act on what he's promised during his campaign, his elitism is really going to be temporary and will help my own political agenda, so its really a no-brainer.


well his political views are the same (as expressed in debates and based on his legislative record)

its just that you're aware of this detail from the past

so it could be that he's secretly elitist or that he's "moved on"

we all maybe did some crazy things earlier in life
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25646
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:51 am

Rhodesia-Zimbabwe wrote:That doesn't sway my vote, a politican could be a bumbling oaf with developmental issues or an absolute asshat with a constant migraine and I might still vote for them. My vote is solely contingent on my confidence in them to vote for laws that I agree with and against laws that I disagree with. Also, what do you mean "he has a very strong track record for getting things done in the the White House as a member of the legislature"?


it means that he has, in the past, pulled some tough negotiations/creative solutions stunts which have allowed bills that overall favour his side to be passed while being elected for positions in the legislature
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

User avatar
Heloin
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5562
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:51 am

-Ocelot- wrote:
Heloin wrote:This is probably the least important and least serious scandal in American History.


it tells a lot about the candidate's character, however. Imagine applying his logic to how the country should be governed.

Politicians being elitist snobs is hardly a new thing. I'm not saying it's a good thing but among all the scandals we get for politicians this one isn't much of one.
And there but for fortune, may go you or I.

My Names Jennifer, a 20 something Rabbit and Rhodie Girl. Proudly Zimbabwean, and currently a Floridian too. TET Disc Jockey.
I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! I draw things and make pixel stuff. And now maps! Take a look!

User avatar
Rojava Free State
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1704
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:52 am

This must be taking place in the Hallmark universe because in this timeline we would never consider this a scandal

Our real world scenario would be more like "Tom is charismatic while Joe is boring, but Tom does drugs and constantly encourages his opponents to beat his critics bloody because "I'm literally the best president alive, anyone who disagrees can kiss my ass." That or Tom was joint chiefs of staff and encouraged a disastrous war that led to thousands of deaths over a lie about some nation having nukes when in reality he knew a guy in the oil business who just wanted a piece of that garbagistani oil. Not letting certain people study with you? Not a scandal in our world
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property, and sexy brown women

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Half Lebanese, Half Puerto Rican. All american. Not Kurdish at all.

User avatar
Free Arabian Nation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1549
Founded: May 02, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:53 am

Well, seeing how elitism is practically necessary to be a politician in America, I'll still vote for Tom.

Actually, tbh, it's required to be elitist in any country.
Last edited by Free Arabian Nation on Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
الأمة العربية الحرة
I don't use NS Stats, they're just me trying to One-Up Chuck.
@The Chuck I'll get you one day, one day my weaponization will be higher
Baghdad Times: Typhoid Outbreak in Yemen ends with 23 dead... Vaccination campaign against Typhoid and others has been commenced... Gujarati Refugee boat found off the coast of the Dubai Republic, rescue workers are now attempting to get them to dry land...

Join the Church. My Discord is Illegal Bird#8035

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25646
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:59 am

Free Arabian Nation wrote:Well, seeing how elitism is practically necessary to be a politician in America, I'll still vote for Tom.

Actually, tbh, it's required to be elitist in any country.


do we have such a poor opinion of American democracy?
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

User avatar
The Blaatschapen
Retired Moderator
 
Posts: 53325
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:59 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Well, seeing how elitism is practically necessary to be a politician in America, I'll still vote for Tom.

Actually, tbh, it's required to be elitist in any country.


do we have such a poor opinion of American democracy?


Yes.
Former mod, now a rocker mocker. Thank you Ringo
Heaven is other people
Behind the invisible hand of the market hides the iron fist of the state.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain
Silent is an anagram of listen.
Proud adopter of a lamb called violet: http://imgur.com/a/pxnSf
Male. Please address me as 'he'.
This is the 8th line. If your sig is longer than mine, it is too long.

User avatar
Free Arabian Nation
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1549
Founded: May 02, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:00 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Well, seeing how elitism is practically necessary to be a politician in America, I'll still vote for Tom.

Actually, tbh, it's required to be elitist in any country.


do we have such a poor opinion of American democracy?

Democracy? They don't have Democracy. They have a pre-determined Oligarchy based on who yells the loudest
الأمة العربية الحرة
I don't use NS Stats, they're just me trying to One-Up Chuck.
@The Chuck I'll get you one day, one day my weaponization will be higher
Baghdad Times: Typhoid Outbreak in Yemen ends with 23 dead... Vaccination campaign against Typhoid and others has been commenced... Gujarati Refugee boat found off the coast of the Dubai Republic, rescue workers are now attempting to get them to dry land...

Join the Church. My Discord is Illegal Bird#8035

User avatar
Cassadaigua
Senator
 
Posts: 3538
Founded: Sep 19, 2008
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Cassadaigua » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:08 am

I don't have any problem with what Tom did at Harvard, in a sense it shows leadership.
The "discrimination" aspect would need concrete, indisputable proof. Not an "apparently".
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships winner!

(Motorsports, college basketball, and volleyball, too)


Specific Titles: World Cup 50, 51; WBC 14, 16, & 19; WB 8 & 22; WCOH 11; IBC 13.
Also: CoH 39; Swamp Soccer 4, WVE (Vball) 6; NSCAA 3, 5 & 9; NSSCRA 7
Runner Up: CoH 40, WB 21, WcoH 8, IBC 12, WBC 13 & 15, DBC 21
WC Qualified for: 45, 46, 49-61, 67, 79 (DNP WC 69-77).
Games of the XIII Summer Olympiad: Second Most Medals
Hosted: World Cup 54 & 67; CoH 57 & 73, BoF 47, CR 30, WB 16, WBC 18, 26, 40, 43 & 45, Conferences within NSCAA 4, 5 & NSCH 1; WLC 7 & 30.

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25646
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:09 am

Cassadaigua wrote:I don't have any problem with what Tom did at Harvard, in a sense it shows leadership.
The "discrimination" aspect would need concrete, indisputable proof. Not an "apparently".


well basically, he did X

you know that he refused to let people from "lesser schools" and "lesser Ivies" into the Study Group (it was official policy he set up)

and he's kicked a few people out for being from the wrong schools
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

User avatar
Cassadaigua
Senator
 
Posts: 3538
Founded: Sep 19, 2008
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Cassadaigua » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:15 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Cassadaigua wrote:I don't have any problem with what Tom did at Harvard, in a sense it shows leadership.
The "discrimination" aspect would need concrete, indisputable proof. Not an "apparently".


well basically, he did X

you know that he refused to let people from "lesser schools" and "lesser Ivies" into the Study Group (it was official policy he set up)

and he's kicked a few people out for being from the wrong schools


It's his study group. He can set those parameters if he chooses. Those left out could join another group, it might not be not be nice, but it's also his decision. On the discrimination aspect, I would be skeptical of someone making an untrue allegation that was left out just to try and get payback.
NS Sports’ only World Cup, World Bowl, World Cup of Hockey, World Baseball Classic and International Basketball Championships winner!

(Motorsports, college basketball, and volleyball, too)


Specific Titles: World Cup 50, 51; WBC 14, 16, & 19; WB 8 & 22; WCOH 11; IBC 13.
Also: CoH 39; Swamp Soccer 4, WVE (Vball) 6; NSCAA 3, 5 & 9; NSSCRA 7
Runner Up: CoH 40, WB 21, WcoH 8, IBC 12, WBC 13 & 15, DBC 21
WC Qualified for: 45, 46, 49-61, 67, 79 (DNP WC 69-77).
Games of the XIII Summer Olympiad: Second Most Medals
Hosted: World Cup 54 & 67; CoH 57 & 73, BoF 47, CR 30, WB 16, WBC 18, 26, 40, 43 & 45, Conferences within NSCAA 4, 5 & NSCH 1; WLC 7 & 30.

User avatar
Rhodesia-Zimbabwe
Secretary
 
Posts: 34
Founded: Mar 11, 2019
Father Knows Best State

Postby Rhodesia-Zimbabwe » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:18 am

Cassadaigua wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
well basically, he did X

you know that he refused to let people from "lesser schools" and "lesser Ivies" into the Study Group (it was official policy he set up)

and he's kicked a few people out for being from the wrong schools


It's his study group. He can set those parameters if he chooses. Those left out could join another group, it might not be not be nice, but it's also his decision. On the discrimination aspect, I would be skeptical of someone making an untrue allegation that was left out just to try and get payback.


Change "study group" and "group" to country and you have yourself a pickle.
I saw a terr on the bundu track
He had a landmine in his pack
When the troopies opened fire
They found his head in Bulawayo!

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25646
Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Father Knows Best State

Postby Infected Mushroom » Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:19 am

Rhodesia-Zimbabwe wrote:
Cassadaigua wrote:
It's his study group. He can set those parameters if he chooses. Those left out could join another group, it might not be not be nice, but it's also his decision. On the discrimination aspect, I would be skeptical of someone making an untrue allegation that was left out just to try and get payback.


Change "study group" and "group" to country and you have yourself a pickle.


Another Zimbo?????
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cyclodeom, Czechoda, ECKU, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], GrarG, Gravlen, Greater vakolicci haven, Nakena, Necroghastia, Publica, Rice New Ang, Risottia, Saciu, Samudera Darussalam, Sticy Bossagimphe, Surrey and Sussex, Sverigesriket, The Holy Therns, Vassenor, Washington Resistance Army

Advertisement

Remove ads