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What is more dangerous?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Which is more dangerous?

The President of the United States.
30
71%
A Machine Gun.
12
29%
 
Total votes : 42

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The Emerald Legion
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What is more dangerous?

Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:08 am

So, recently a thought occurred to me. What is more dangerous? The Head of State and Commander in Chief of the US military, The, in all likelihood, most powerful military on the face of the planet?

Or a machine gun? A weapon that aforementioned military has hundreds of, and more destructive weapons besides.

In case my stance was unclear, the President is clearly, obviously the more dangerous of the two.

And yet, despite both being rights. The right to vote is excercised free of any manner of regulation, or at least in most cases, and the Democrats, even while decrying our current president as a literal threat to global peace, seems to think even more so that voting should be utterly unregulated.

Why then, the change in argument when it comes to guns? Any minor incident leads to a slew of suggestions to limit our right to own weapons of war, despite that being a constitutional right enshrined just as strongly as the right to vote. We haven't come close to some idiot with a machine gun toppling a south American government, or propping up a dictator in the middle east... But politicians doing stupid things have done both.

And yet despite the dramatically lesser consequences, somehow those lesser consequences are more deserving of regulation? Would someone mind explaining this to me?
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:14 am

Just a thought and I could be wrong but it’s probably that when it comes to what a POTUS can or can’t do, there a lot of iron clad safeguards than when it comes to guns. Which you can have access to through legal or illegal means. There’re also reactions of fear that are very visceral when a shooting happens. Because it can happen anywhere and affect loved ones or yourself.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:22 am

Because a bunch of urban liberals who know nothing about guns want to show dem rednecks.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:26 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Just a thought and I could be wrong but it’s probably that when it comes to what a POTUS can or can’t do, there a lot of iron clad safeguards than when it comes to guns. Which you can have access to through legal or illegal means. There’re also reactions of fear that are very visceral when a shooting happens. Because it can happen anywhere and affect loved ones or yourself.

A fair point, but there are also fairly ironclad laws about what you can and cannot do with guns. And as evidenced by current events, it's fairly difficult to hold a president responsible for any wrongdoing. Whereas holding Joe Shooter to count for his wrongdoing is fairly simple.

And also evidenced by reactions in 2016, people can and do have fairly visceral reactions to certain presidents.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:30 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Just a thought and I could be wrong but it’s probably that when it comes to what a POTUS can or can’t do, there a lot of iron clad safeguards than when it comes to guns. Which you can have access to through legal or illegal means. There’re also reactions of fear that are very visceral when a shooting happens. Because it can happen anywhere and affect loved ones or yourself.

A fair point, but there are also fairly ironclad laws about what you can and cannot do with guns. And as evidenced by current events, it's fairly difficult to hold a president responsible for any wrongdoing. Whereas holding Joe Shooter to count for his wrongdoing is fairly simple.

And also evidenced by reactions in 2016, people can and do have fairly visceral reactions to certain presidents.


To clarify my stance. I don’t like guns. Never have. I strive to keep firearms out of my home (although we do keep a pellet gun at home because we have a huge problem with skunks trying to take up residence under our porch). I’m not from the US. I grew up in a place where guns were seen on either law enforcement or people up to no good. I don’t see a point about regular citizens carrying weapons. That being said, it’s your constitutional right and I realize that. I’m not here to change it.
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The Navy and Olive Domain
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Postby The Navy and Olive Domain » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:32 am

A gun is not dangerous but if it is misused, it can be.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:33 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:A fair point, but there are also fairly ironclad laws about what you can and cannot do with guns. And as evidenced by current events, it's fairly difficult to hold a president responsible for any wrongdoing. Whereas holding Joe Shooter to count for his wrongdoing is fairly simple.

And also evidenced by reactions in 2016, people can and do have fairly visceral reactions to certain presidents.


To clarify my stance. I don’t like guns. Never have. I strive to keep firearms out of my home (although we do keep a pellet gun at home because we have a huge problem with skunks trying to take up residence under our porch). I’m not from the US. I grew up in a place where guns were seen on either law enforcement or people up to no good. I don’t see a point about regular citizens carrying weapons. That being said, it’s your constitutional right and I realize that. I’m not here to change it.


And that's fine. It's a right to keep and bear arms. Not a requirement.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:37 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
To clarify my stance. I don’t like guns. Never have. I strive to keep firearms out of my home (although we do keep a pellet gun at home because we have a huge problem with skunks trying to take up residence under our porch). I’m not from the US. I grew up in a place where guns were seen on either law enforcement or people up to no good. I don’t see a point about regular citizens carrying weapons. That being said, it’s your constitutional right and I realize that. I’m not here to change it.


And that's fine. It's a right to keep and bear arms. Not a requirement.


I think the fear that a loved one could be hurt during a shooting is what prompts the reaction to ban or over regulate gun ownership. And when we react, we don’t always reason through on how to actually proceed on an issue. Congress has that issue, be it on the Democratic side or the Republican side. Overreaction. Not good.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:41 am

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
And that's fine. It's a right to keep and bear arms. Not a requirement.


I think the fear that a loved one could be hurt during a shooting is what prompts the reaction to ban or over regulate gun ownership. And when we react, we don’t always reason through on how to actually proceed on an issue. Congress has that issue, be it on the Democratic side or the Republican side. Overreaction. Not good.

Part of the problem is, of course, that most of the gun controllers literally don't know what a gun is, let alone anything else relevant to regulating them.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:48 am

Diopolis wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
I think the fear that a loved one could be hurt during a shooting is what prompts the reaction to ban or over regulate gun ownership. And when we react, we don’t always reason through on how to actually proceed on an issue. Congress has that issue, be it on the Democratic side or the Republican side. Overreaction. Not good.

Part of the problem is, of course, that most of the gun controllers literally don't know what a gun is, let alone anything else relevant to regulating them.


I guess what I want to say is that although the president is more dangerous than a firearm, the fear of harm due to gun violence is more immediate and palpable to some people than Donald J. Trump.
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Postby Evil Dictators Happyland » Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:52 am

The president is more dangerous than a machine gun, true, but there's only one president and well over a hundred million people who vote.
A better question might be this: Which is more dangerous, the President, or 137.5 million machine guns?
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:00 am

Voting and a gun are very obviously completely different, and there no good reason for them to be treated similarly in almost any respect, and the OP's lies are bad and they should feel bad.
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Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:01 am

Ifreann wrote:Voting and a gun are very obviously completely different, and there no good reason for them to be treated similarly in almost any respect, and the OP's lies are bad and they should feel bad.

Much like owning a gun and driving a car.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:02 am

Ifreann wrote:Voting and a gun are very obviously completely different, and there no good reason for them to be treated similarly in almost any respect, and the OP's lies are bad and they should feel bad.


Voting and owning a gun are both rights both have consequences that are potentially negative, and at what point did I lie?
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:06 am

This is a stupid hypothetical as automatic weapons aren’t legal in the US, without a shit ton of money and paperwork, and haven’t been for 40 years
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:09 am

Thermodolia wrote:This is a stupid hypothetical as automatic weapons aren’t legal in the US, without a shit ton of money and paperwork, and haven’t been for 40 years


That's my point... Automatic weapons should be legal and unrestricted. It's just as much of a right, as your right to vote. Yet while one is verboten to so much as sneeze in the direction of, the other is increasingly attacked in more and more blatant ways.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
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Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:10 am

Thermodolia wrote:This is a stupid hypothetical as automatic weapons aren’t legal in the US, without a shit ton of money and paperwork, and haven’t been for 40 years

You can still buy a pre-1986 machinegun, if you can afford it.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:16 am

Diopolis wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:This is a stupid hypothetical as automatic weapons aren’t legal in the US, without a shit ton of money and paperwork, and haven’t been for 40 years

You can still buy a pre-1986 machinegun, if you can afford it.

Hence
without a shit ton of money and paperwork
Helps to read people’s quotes
Last edited by Thermodolia on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:17 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:This is a stupid hypothetical as automatic weapons aren’t legal in the US, without a shit ton of money and paperwork, and haven’t been for 40 years


That's my point... Automatic weapons should be legal and unrestricted. It's just as much of a right, as your right to vote. Yet while one is verboten to so much as sneeze in the direction of, the other is increasingly attacked in more and more blatant ways.

Should they be legal I’d say yes. Unrestricted? Hardly.
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:18 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Voting and a gun are very obviously completely different, and there no good reason for them to be treated similarly in almost any respect, and the OP's lies are bad and they should feel bad.


Voting and owning a gun are both rights both have consequences that are potentially negative,

And like I said, there's no good reason for them to be treated similarly in almost any respect.
and at what point did I lie?

The Emerald Legion wrote:The right to vote is excercised free of any manner of regulation,

Lie. Every jurisdiction in the US has restrictions on who can vote and regulations on how voting is done.
or at least in most cases,

Lie. Not even in one case is this true.
and the Democrats [...] seems to think even more so that voting should be utterly unregulated.

Lie. Opposing attempts by Republicans to suppress voters that will not support them is not equivalent to wanting the supposedly already totally unregulated right to vote to somehow be even more unregulated.
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Diopolis
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Postby Diopolis » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:19 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:You can still buy a pre-1986 machinegun, if you can afford it.

Hence
without a shit ton of money and paperwork
Helps to read people’s quotes

The paperwork for it is supposedly fairly manageable. The money, on the other hand...
Although let's be real here, most of these weapons wouldn't be affordable even if they were legal and unrestricted.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:20 am

Thermodolia wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
That's my point... Automatic weapons should be legal and unrestricted. It's just as much of a right, as your right to vote. Yet while one is verboten to so much as sneeze in the direction of, the other is increasingly attacked in more and more blatant ways.

Should they be legal I’d say yes. Unrestricted? Hardly.


Then repeal the 2nd amendment, which states clearly that restrictions aren't kosher.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
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Grinning Dragon
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Postby Grinning Dragon » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:22 am

Since a machine gun is an inanimate object and incapable of acting on its own accord and seeing as how a machine gun it just a tool, it would be the person that would be more dangerous.
Last edited by Grinning Dragon on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:56 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Should they be legal I’d say yes. Unrestricted? Hardly.


Then repeal the 2nd amendment, which states clearly that restrictions aren't kosher.

No the 2nd amendment doesn’t say that. Restrictions within reason are fine. 21+ with an background check including DV and state funded firearm training and you should be able to own any gun you want below military grade
Male, centrist cultural nationalist, lives somewhere in the Deep South, loves dogs particularly German Shepherds, give me any good Irish or Scottish whiskey and I will be your friend for life. I'm GAY!
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>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
>Xovland: I keep getting ads for printer ink. Sometimes, when you get that feeling down there, you have to look at some steamy printer pictures.
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Postby Rojava Free State » Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:08 am

Because the people who wanna ban guns also like big, powerful, authoritarian government.
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