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Creationism in Public Schools

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What do you think?

Public schools should only teach evolution
342
76%
Public schools should teach evolution and creation science
88
20%
Public schools should only teach creation science
21
5%
 
Total votes : 451

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Geneviev
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Creationism in Public Schools

Postby Geneviev » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:38 pm

The US Supreme Court has not allowed creation science to be taught in public schools since 1968, when it invalidated an Arkansas law that didn't allow evolution to be taught in schools (Epperson v. Arkansas). The Supreme Court continued to encourage evolution instead of creation science in Edwards v. Aguillard, in which it held teaching of creation science along with evolution to be unconstitutional. However, many scientists believe that there is more scientific evidence for creation.

Christian groups have attempted to bring creation science back into public schools since it was banned. South Carolina's House Bill 3826, while unsuccessful, proposed teaching creation science in schools. However, none of these attempts have been successful.

What do you think, NSG? Should public schools be allowed to teach creation science? Should they teach evolution and creation science? Or is creation science unconstitutional?

I think creation and evolution should both be taught equally so students in public schools can choose for themselves what they believe. Although it would be unconstitutional if only the Christian perspective is taught, other religions could also be taught.
Last edited by Geneviev on Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Quaeg
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Postby Quaeg » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:41 pm

No. Sunday school, church, temple, religious institutions, yes, but not school. Schools, should be secular.
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Estanglia
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Postby Estanglia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:42 pm

Geneviev wrote:However, many scientists believe that there is more scientific evidence for creation.


Gonna need some proof for that.

What do you think, NSG? Should public schools be allowed to teach creation science? Should they teach evolution and creation science? Or is creation science unconstitutional?


Creationism shouldn't be taught at all imo. Schools should only teach what we have solid evidence for: unless creationists have some evidence they would like to share, it doesn't meet that and shouldn't be taught.

Whether or not it's unconstitutional, I don't know.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:44 pm

Creationism, specifically the Young Earth variety, has no place in schools. Or anywhere for that matter.

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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:47 pm

creationism should be tought the same way any other religious belief is tought in schools. the teacher should simply say that it is a belief held by some Christians that the word was created as it is by a higher power but is not scientifically supported.
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Logikie
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Postby Logikie » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:48 pm

"creation science"
uhh.. creationism is the exact OPPOSITE of science. i don't care what cult someone follows it does NOT belong in public learning institutions.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:48 pm

Estanglia wrote:
Geneviev wrote:However, many scientists believe that there is more scientific evidence for creation.


Gonna need some proof for that.

What do you think, NSG? Should public schools be allowed to teach creation science? Should they teach evolution and creation science? Or is creation science unconstitutional?


Creationism shouldn't be taught at all imo. Schools should only teach what we have solid evidence for: unless creationists have some evidence they would like to share, it doesn't meet that and shouldn't be taught.

Whether or not it's unconstitutional, I don't know.

If you scroll down, here's a list of creation scientists.

There is evidence for creation science here.
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:49 pm

No, evolution should be the only thing taught in school, creationism has absolutely no place in public education. If people want their kids to be taught creationism then they can send them to their local church or religious school to learn it. Creationism also doesn’t pass the lemon test so there’s no constitutional basis for it to be allowed to be taught in public schools.
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Logikie
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Postby Logikie » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:50 pm

and technically speaking is IS unconstitutional, while the first amendment protects one's right to practice their own religion it SPECIFICALLY says church and state are to be separate

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Hexapus
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Postby Hexapus » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:50 pm

Biblical creationism is something strictly exclusive to Christianity. Other religions have different creation myths. If public schools want to touch on the ideas of creationism, they must not give the Christian perspective any more weight than, let's say, the Native American or Buddhist ones. In addition, none of these ideas should be passed as orthodox facts.

To favor Christian creationism over other creation myths is an express endorsement of a particular religion. Government shouldn't pass any laws respecting an establishment of religion. This includes public schools, as they're funded through taxes which citizens (some of whom aren't Christian) cannot opt out of.

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Christ Triumphant
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Postby Christ Triumphant » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:50 pm

Absolutely not. Keep that garbage "science" out of public schools.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:50 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:Creationism, specifically the Young Earth variety, has no place in schools. Or anywhere for that matter.

Why do you say so?

Catsfern wrote:creationism should be tought the same way any other religious belief is tought in schools. the teacher should simply say that it is a belief held by some Christians that the word was created as it is by a higher power but is not scientifically supported.

How much do you think it should be taught?
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Quaeg
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Postby Quaeg » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:51 pm

Catsfern wrote:creationism should be tought the same way any other religious belief is tought in schools. the teacher should simply say that it is a belief held by some Christians that the word was created as it is by a higher power but is not scientifically supported.


This is something I agree would be okay in schools. I'd say to add to this that if you're teaching one faith's creation myth then you should teach many of them.

Children, cynical things that they are, would have a great time picking holes in some of the world-origin narratives. And hell, they might even find they enjoy learning about some of these stories. Mythology always interested me as a kid.
Last edited by Quaeg on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:52 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Estanglia wrote:
Gonna need some proof for that.



Creationism shouldn't be taught at all imo. Schools should only teach what we have solid evidence for: unless creationists have some evidence they would like to share, it doesn't meet that and shouldn't be taught.

Whether or not it's unconstitutional, I don't know.

If you scroll down, here's a list of creation scientists.

There is evidence for creation science here.

A church isn’t a good or neutral source for determining whether or not there’s evidence for “””creation science”””. A cursory glance at that particular article shows typical God of the Gaps arguments for why they believe there’s evidence since they believe the absence of evidence of something is automatically evidence for God doing it.
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Washington Resistance Army
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Postby Washington Resistance Army » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:52 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:Creationism, specifically the Young Earth variety, has no place in schools. Or anywhere for that matter.

Why do you say so?


Because it's garbage with no basis in reality which is blatantly obvious if you do even the smallest bit of learning.

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Geneviev
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Postby Geneviev » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:52 pm

Hexapus wrote:Biblical creationism is something strictly exclusive to Christianity. Other religions have different creation myths. If public schools want to touch on the ideas of creationism, they must not give the Christian perspective any more weight than, let's say, the Native American or Buddhist ones. In addition, none of these ideas should be passed as orthodox facts.

To favor Christian creationism over other creation myths is an express endorsement of a particular religion. Government shouldn't pass any laws respecting an establishment of religion. This includes public schools, as they're funded through taxes which citizens (some of whom aren't Christian) cannot opt out of.

If creation and evolution were to be taught together with other religions, would you agree with it?
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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:54 pm

Since creationism is a political and religious tool based on proven fiction, without any educational value, no public school should be allowed to "teach" it.

It's very important for all of these christian extremists to shoehorn creationism in public schools if they are to keep their religion alive and growing. Which is why there are so many attempts, even though they were all unsuccessful. Then again, with the current US administration everything is possible, so we might see some American public schools teaching creationism instead of proven science after all. As Trump has said in past interviews, Christians are being extremely oppressed and you wouldn't want to oppress them by teaching evolution now would you?
Last edited by -Ocelot- on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cekoviu
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Postby Cekoviu » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:55 pm

Creationism has, plainly, absolutely no evidence supporting it. Evolution by natural selection is widely accepted by biologists and is to the point that it can be considered a theory, much like gravity. It's incredibly inappropriate to present the two to schoolchildren as intellectually on par, scientifically competing ideas. Creationism can be briefly noted as an opposing hypothesis that a few people adhere to, but it absolutely should not be taught as sound science or given any credence.
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Hexapus
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Postby Hexapus » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:56 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Hexapus wrote:Biblical creationism is something strictly exclusive to Christianity. Other religions have different creation myths. If public schools want to touch on the ideas of creationism, they must not give the Christian perspective any more weight than, let's say, the Native American or Buddhist ones. In addition, none of these ideas should be passed as orthodox facts.

To favor Christian creationism over other creation myths is an express endorsement of a particular religion. Government shouldn't pass any laws respecting an establishment of religion. This includes public schools, as they're funded through taxes which citizens (some of whom aren't Christian) cannot opt out of.

If creation and evolution were to be taught together with other religions, would you agree with it?

If it were part of a "Cultures of the World" class or something like it, sure. To preach scripture as the truth, or make students worship, that crosses the line IMO.

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:56 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Hexapus wrote:Biblical creationism is something strictly exclusive to Christianity. Other religions have different creation myths. If public schools want to touch on the ideas of creationism, they must not give the Christian perspective any more weight than, let's say, the Native American or Buddhist ones. In addition, none of these ideas should be passed as orthodox facts.

To favor Christian creationism over other creation myths is an express endorsement of a particular religion. Government shouldn't pass any laws respecting an establishment of religion. This includes public schools, as they're funded through taxes which citizens (some of whom aren't Christian) cannot opt out of.

If creation and evolution were to be taught together with other religions, would you agree with it?

No, creationism as a whole has no secular basis and therefore has no place in education. It doesn’t pass the lemon test and is unconstitutional.
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The Brytish Isles
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Postby The Brytish Isles » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:58 pm

Absolutely not. Creationism should be denounced and rejected by society as a whole. It is an idiotic and plainly daft idea that has no place in modern society, and especially not rotting the brains of our species’s youth.
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Quaeg
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Postby Quaeg » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:59 pm

Geneviev wrote:
Hexapus wrote:Biblical creationism is something strictly exclusive to Christianity. Other religions have different creation myths. If public schools want to touch on the ideas of creationism, they must not give the Christian perspective any more weight than, let's say, the Native American or Buddhist ones. In addition, none of these ideas should be passed as orthodox facts.

To favor Christian creationism over other creation myths is an express endorsement of a particular religion. Government shouldn't pass any laws respecting an establishment of religion. This includes public schools, as they're funded through taxes which citizens (some of whom aren't Christian) cannot opt out of.

If creation and evolution were to be taught together with other religions, would you agree with it?


That really depends. I say this as someone who was raised as a Catholic (albeit a bad one) and is at least still a little spiritual, but religious education should never be taught as an alternative opinion to science.

If there is RE in schools, it should always be taught from the perspective that Religion is essentially just cultural folklore, a historic way of guiding human morality and behaviour. It has zero scientific merit.
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Catsfern
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Postby Catsfern » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:00 pm

if a school were to want to teach creationism it would be best to do it as part of a class studying various world religions and be tought along side the creation myths of other religions, I think a couple nations before me have said something similar.
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Postby Lower Nubia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:00 pm

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Postby Basking Turtles » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:00 pm

Creationism should be mentioned in a course about the history of natural philosophy. Religion was our first attempt to explain how the universe works. Of course we've come a long way since then, but it's good to have some insight into how our ancestors saw the world.

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