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[DRAFT] Repeal: Voting Equality For Freed Inmates #419

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Chants
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Founded: Jun 09, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

[DRAFT] Repeal: Voting Equality For Freed Inmates #419

Postby Chants » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:54 pm

ACKNOWLEDGING the reasons stated behind the resolution by the author to highlight a system of judicial values whereby the convicted criminal is seen to have paid their debts to the offended society in full by time served incarcerated are shared by many members,

REMINDS the assembly that not all societies represented within this international body agree that such debts are paid when incarcerated criminals are released and that the deprivation of a vote is just as valid of an ongoing punishment as additional years of incarceration or probation,

FURTHER suggests that the lack of a civil vote within society due to previous incarceration can be used successfully as a non-violent and inexpensive means of deterrence to potential criminals,

OBJECTS to this blatant disregard of national sovereignty in reference to the operation of detailed and often highly complex inner workings of member nation’s criminal justice systems by this body without proper research or forethought.
Last edited by Chants on Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Morover
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Founded: Oct 14, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Morover » Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:14 pm

Chants wrote:ACKNOWLEDGING the reasons stated behind the resolution by the author to highlight a system of judicial values whereby the convicted criminal is seen to have paid their debts to the offended society in full by time served incarcerated are shared by many members,

REMINDS the assembly that not all societies represented within this international body agree that such debts are paid when incarcerated criminals are released and that the deprivation of a vote is just as valid of an ongoing punishment as additional years of incarceration or probation,

FURTHER suggests that the lack of a civil vote within society due to previous incarceration can be used successfully as a non-violent and inexpensive means of deterrence to potential criminals,

OBJECTS to this blatant disregard of national sovereignty in reference to the operation of detailed and often highly complex inner workings of member nation’s criminal justice systems by this body without proper research or forethought.

"The only real argument you have here, in my opinion, is the idea of using exclusion to the voting process and an inexpensive way to deter future criminals. That being said, even that argument is weak, and, frankly, somewhat of a disgrace to democracy. Speaking as a representative from a nation which does not have democratic elections, I cannot imagine holding the idea of a vote against your citizens."

"GAR#419 is a strong resolution, and I see no reason for a repeal. Against, unless you can come up with some better reasons."

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Chants
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Founded: Jun 09, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Chants » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:22 pm

"The people of many democracies see this as a reasonable punishment and have democratically enacted these laws. What is to say this is anymore undemocratic than a life sentence whereby even the resolution currently standing would not grant them voting rights? Additionally the principle of national sovereignty is supposed to be a paramount principle of the WA. This is a very precise and targeted resolution which affects everyday life of foreign nationals with no accountability from large portions of the voting members of the WA. Why should a Monarchy, Dictatorship, or Anarchic polity have sway over how a Democracy operates? If we were all to respond to the same standards then I would see a resolution determining how an heir is decided for a monarchy and set guidelines for disinheritance. After all, its not truly a pure hereditary system if the first born isn't king or queen. But my people are democratic so we do not live those countries affected by our vote."

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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:15 pm

Chants wrote:"The people of many democracies see this as a reasonable punishment and have democratically enacted these laws. What is to say this is anymore undemocratic than a life sentence whereby even the resolution currently standing would not grant them voting rights? Additionally the principle of national sovereignty is supposed to be a paramount principle of the WA. This is a very precise and targeted resolution which affects everyday life of foreign nationals with no accountability from large portions of the voting members of the WA. Why should a Monarchy, Dictatorship, or Anarchic polity have sway over how a Democracy operates? If we were all to respond to the same standards then I would see a resolution determining how an heir is decided for a monarchy and set guidelines for disinheritance. After all, its not truly a pure hereditary system if the first born isn't king or queen. But my people are democratic so we do not live those countries affected by our vote."

“Your main argument, therefore, appears to be national sovereignty. This is very weak, as it is one of those propositions that is inherently flawed, due to the nature of the World Assembly. Although it is true that there would be a problem with, for example, a resolution managing the exact building regulations or speed limits in a state, that would be for reasons of micromanagement, which is distinct from. national sovereignty. You forfeit that privilege, of having the complete control over your laws, when you join the WA.

The other argument you have, as I can see two in your proposal, is that holding the right to vote as part of a punishment when giving sentencing could form a deterrent, and therefore dissuade potential criminals. The ambassador from Morover has covered my point well, but I wish to add that voting also dissuades re-integration into society upon release, by placing barriers betwixt criminals and society.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:56 am

Polls is an argument which proves too much: it would have us believe that international action against war crimes and crimes against humanity are acceptable if passed by the people. We can't accept that, no man is an island.

Moreover, polls as an argument presupposes the existence of a functioning democracy. If such a democracy were to legislate itself out of existence, why should future activities undertaken by that democracy continue to carry legitimacy?
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:12 am

"The tyranny of the majority has never been a valid reason to assert 'democracy' as a swimming pool of rainbows and unicorns, ambassador. If you like your laws the way they were before this target passed, what it means is that you don't value democracy as much as you value 'the right kind' of democracy - the kind that excludes a whole bunch of scapegoats and poor people. The correct word for your system is 'oligarchy' or perhaps 'plutocracy.' And therefore, your precious sovereignty is of no concern whatsoever."
Principal-Agent, Anarchy; Lieutenant, The Red Fleet
The Mostly Alright Steph Zakalwe *
Author: 354 GA / Issues 436, 451, 724
S.L. Ambassador to the World Assembly
Tech Level: Complicated (or not: 7/0/6 i.e. 12) / RP Details
The Semi-Honorable Leonid Berkman Pavonis,
Illustrious Bum #279
Ambassador-At-Large
Pol. Compass: Econ. -5 to -8, Soc. -8 to -9 (depending), 8values: LibSoc
"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People’s Stick.'" -Mikhail Bakunin (to Karl Marx)


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Chants
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Founded: Jun 09, 2019
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Chants » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:30 am

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:"The tyranny of the majority has never been a valid reason to assert 'democracy' as a swimming pool of rainbows and unicorns, ambassador. If you like your laws the way they were before this target passed, what it means is that you don't value democracy as much as you value 'the right kind' of democracy - the kind that excludes a whole bunch of scapegoats and poor people. The correct word for your system is 'oligarchy' or perhaps 'plutocracy.' And therefore, your precious sovereignty is of no concern whatsoever."


"A very diplomatic approach from someone vested with so much power. You assume that the poor are scapegoats in Chants, and you trivialize the sovereignty of nations even though it is a tenet of the World Assembly. How dare someone have an opinion differing your own."

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Sierra Lyricalia
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 3310
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:11 pm

Chants wrote:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:"The tyranny of the majority has never been a valid reason to assert 'democracy' as a swimming pool of rainbows and unicorns, ambassador. If you like your laws the way they were before this target passed, what it means is that you don't value democracy as much as you value 'the right kind' of democracy - the kind that excludes a whole bunch of scapegoats and poor people. The correct word for your system is 'oligarchy' or perhaps 'plutocracy.' And therefore, your precious sovereignty is of no concern whatsoever."


"A very diplomatic approach from someone vested with so much power. You assume that the poor are scapegoats in Chants, and you trivialize the sovereignty of nations even though it is a tenet of the World Assembly. How dare someone have an opinion differing your own."


Steph shrugs and takes another swig off her flask. "You're the one with the draft proposal, ambassador. I'm just conveying the reasons for our opposition. In point of fact we obey World Assembly law regarding the sovereignty of other WA member states, but the WA doesn't say we have to heap praise on you into the bargain. The system you intend to allow member states to return to is repugnant, and no amount of kumbaya horseshit about how much we love each other's sovereignty and respect each other and whatnot can change that."
Principal-Agent, Anarchy; Lieutenant, The Red Fleet
The Mostly Alright Steph Zakalwe *
Author: 354 GA / Issues 436, 451, 724
S.L. Ambassador to the World Assembly
Tech Level: Complicated (or not: 7/0/6 i.e. 12) / RP Details
The Semi-Honorable Leonid Berkman Pavonis,
Illustrious Bum #279
Ambassador-At-Large
Pol. Compass: Econ. -5 to -8, Soc. -8 to -9 (depending), 8values: LibSoc
"When the people are being beaten with a stick, they are not much happier if it is called 'the People’s Stick.'" -Mikhail Bakunin (to Karl Marx)


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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4803
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:36 pm

Chants wrote:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:"The tyranny of the majority has never been a valid reason to assert 'democracy' as a swimming pool of rainbows and unicorns, ambassador. If you like your laws the way they were before this target passed, what it means is that you don't value democracy as much as you value 'the right kind' of democracy - the kind that excludes a whole bunch of scapegoats and poor people. The correct word for your system is 'oligarchy' or perhaps 'plutocracy.' And therefore, your precious sovereignty is of no concern whatsoever."


"A very diplomatic approach from someone vested with so much power. You assume that the poor are scapegoats in Chants, and you trivialize the sovereignty of nations even though it is a tenet of the World Assembly. How dare someone have an opinion differing your own."

“National sovereignty is not a tenet of the General Assembly, and never has been. The mission, and indeed slogan, of the GA is to ‘improve the world, one resolution at a time’, which cannot occur if member nations don’t have any binding resolutions given to them. Tyranny of the majority is not, and should never be, an excuse for the ignoring of the right to universal suffrage.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Christian Democrats
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10006
Founded: Jul 29, 2009
New York Times Democracy

Postby Christian Democrats » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:29 pm

Disenfranchisement for lawbreakers is not a punishment so inappropriate that the World Assembly should ban it. Thus, we would support an attempt to repeal Resolution 419.
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
GA#175: Organ and Blood Donations Act (68%)^
SC#082: Repeal "Liberate Catholic" (80%)
GA#200: Foreign Marriage Recognition (54%)
GA#213: Privacy Protection Act (70%)
GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
GA#249: Stopping Suicide Seeds (70%)^
GA#253: Repeal "Freedom in Medical Research" (76%)
GA#285: Assisted Suicide Act (70%)
GA#310: Disabled Voters Act (81%)
GA#373: Repeal "Convention on Execution" (54%)

* denotes coauthorship
^ repealed resolution
#360: Electile Dysfunction
#452: Foetal Furore
#560: Bicameral Backlash
#570: Clerical Errors

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Barfleur
Attaché
 
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Founded: Mar 04, 2019
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Barfleur » Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:01 pm

"Ambassador, it is the opinion of the government of Barfleur that whether or not a convicted individual should be allowed to vote should depend on the severity of the crime committed. Therefore, I support this bill."
Barfleur, Where Blue Seas Meet Golden Sands
Monarchy is boring. Hereditary meritocratic technocracy is the way forward.
Ambassador to the WA: Roger MacGeorge
Military Attaché: Col. Lyndon Q. Ralston
The Barfleurian WA Delegation can be found at Room 1903, Floor 19, WAHQ


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