[ABANDONED] Liberate Westphalia

[Depackya]

For the record, YES, this forum post existed before. Redacted momentarily, then re-posted. Apologies for any confusion.

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Version 1:

The Security Council,

Horrified by the occupation of Westphalia by The Black Hawks (henceforth "TBH");

Noting that TBH, a region already condemned by Security Council Resolution # 52 and Security Council Resolution # 217 for their aggressive and numerous raids, has since refounded and locked down Westphalia;

Also noting that Heiying, the leader of the invasion, took advantage of a free, democratic election, using the region's subsequent weakness to seize control of the delegacy;

Recalling Westphalia's rich history (having been founded back in June of 2011), and large, active community (reaching 642 nations at its height) prior to the occupation;

Saddened at the destruction of such a region, and the scattering of such a large community;

Worried that a lack of legislation will allow TBH to permanently occupy Westphalia, preventing the natives from ever successfully regaining control of their region;

Hoping that a liberation, while it would not be immediately effective (considering the region has been refounded), will prove effective in the long run, should the founder ever cease to exist;

Resolved to restore the natives of Westphalia to their home region;

Hereby Liberates Westphalia.

Version 2:

The Security Council,

Horrified by the occupation of Westphalia by The Black Hawks (henceforth "TBH");

Noting that TBH, a region already condemned by Security Council Resolution # 52 and Security Council Resolution # 217 for multiple aggressive raids, has since refounded and locked down Westphalia;

Also noting that the raid leader took advantage of a recent election, using the region's subsequent weakness during the transition of power to seize control of the delegacy;

Recalling Westphalia's rich history and large, active community prior to the occupation, having reached a height of 642 nations since it was founded in 2011;

Saddened at the destruction of such a region;

Disappointed that Westphalia's successor region, Westfalen Westphalia, has only 39 residents as of this resolution;

Worried that a lack of legislation will allow TBH to permanently occupy Westphalia, preventing the natives from ever successfully regaining control of their region;

Hoping that a liberation, while it would not be immediately effective (considering the region has been refounded), will prove effective in the long run, should the founder ever cease to exist;

Resolved to restore the natives of Westphalia to their home region;

Hereby Liberates Westphalia.

[Kuriko]

My statement from the other thread still stands.

[Borovan entered the region as he]

It's been refounded by tbh. Liberating would have no effect as there is a founder and it's unlikely the tbh would let it go. This would have more use when it was founderless but I'll still be against as there is little use in liberating when the successor region rhinia

[Kuriko]

It's been refounded by tbh. Liberating would have no effect as there is a founder and it's unlikely the tbh would let it go. This would have more use when it was founderless but I'll still be against as there is little use in liberating when the successor region rhinia

For the record, Rhinia was the first successor region after the first raid. Westfalen Westphalia is the successor region.

[Forestavia]

I think we should liberate them anyway. You know, the whole preemptive strike thing. It would be like a condemnation but with teeth in it. It would really show the Blackhawks we mean business here in the Security Council. That way when the founder CTE we'll be able to help restore the region.

Full support.

[Borovan entered the region as he]

It's been refounded by tbh. Liberating would have no effect as there is a founder and it's unlikely the tbh would let it go. This would have more use when it was founderless but I'll still be against as there is little use in liberating when the successor region rhinia

For the record, Rhinia was the first successor region after the first raid. Westfalen Westphalia is the successor region.

Ok thanks for the update

[Aclion]

I think we should liberate them anyway. You know, the whole preemptive strike thing. It would be like a condemnation but with teeth in it. It would really show the Blackhawks we mean business here in the Security Council. That way when the founder CTE we'll be able to help restore the region.

Full support.

why would we want to make the trophy more valuable.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

My statement from the other thread still stands.

Mine too. No support.

[Jocospor]

It's been refounded by tbh. Liberating would have no effect as there is a founder and it's unlikely the tbh would let it go. This would have more use when it was founderless but I'll still be against as there is little use in liberating when the successor region rhinia

Poor logic, ambassador. There's no practical benefit to the liberation lauded over the Confederation, either. Liberating this new Westphalia would be, like SCR#263, symbolic. It would show that this World Assembly was most dissatisfied by the unlawful and brutal occupation of the old Westphalia by the Hawks.

Westphalia was an old region; it's a shame to see that it's been destroyed. This World Assembly can still yet preserve Westphalia's memory and legacy, though.

[The Central Marches]

Edit

[Lord Dominator]

Ah, so we're suggesting a third vaguely possibly harmful Condemnation for TBH then?

Full support, pending actually looking at the draft.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Ah, so we're suggesting a third vaguely possibly harmful Condemnation for TBH then?

Full support, pending actually looking at the draft.

Wrong type of proposal.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

So it’s a CoCD sponsored proposal - that should guarantee its failure.

[Honeydewistania]

It's been refounded by tbh. Liberating would have no effect as there is a founder and it's unlikely the tbh would let it go. This would have more use when it was founderless but I'll still be against as there is little use in liberating when the successor region rhinia

Poor logic, ambassador. There's no practical benefit to the liberation lauded over the Confederation, either. Liberating this new Westphalia would be, like SCR#263, symbolic. It would show that this World Assembly was most dissatisfied by the unlawful and brutal occupation of the old Westphalia by the Hawks.

Westphalia was an old region; it's a shame to see that it's been destroyed. This World Assembly can still yet preserve Westphalia's memory and legacy, though.

If the liberation of yours was for a symbolic reason, it would had been condemned. It is to raid CCD when the opportunity. Besides Westphalia seemed to be good firends with you, hence my lack of support + why westphalia should stay under TBH

[Lord Dominator]

Ah, so we're suggesting a third vaguely possibly harmful Condemnation for TBH then?

Full support, pending actually looking at the draft.

Wrong type of proposal.

Previous offensive Liberations have been noted to exist as condemnations with teeth, and such thoughts have been expressed here.

Of course, why do it on the newest trophy rather than any of the other ones or the main region is a question to be asked here.

[Forestavia]

I think we should liberate them anyway. You know, the whole preemptive strike thing. It would be like a condemnation but with teeth in it. It would really show the Blackhawks we mean business here in the Security Council. That way when the founder CTE we'll be able to help restore the region.

Full support.

why would we want to make the trophy more valuable.

I'm not concerned about any trophy implications or even any perception of a trophy. I support this proposal because my nation is only concerned with fighting for the natives to give them back their home. If this body can fake liberate a region like Kaiserreich without good cause, if that's the kind of world government we want to be, then from this ambassador's point-of-view we ought to usefully employ this preemptive liberation strategy in a way that will actually benefit the world. Imagine that! Instead of sticking our nose where it doesn't belong we actually take the aggressive liberation to the doorstep of regions that have been refounded as a message that we here in the Security Council are serious about native rights. Oh, that's right. This kind of thing is only reserved for so-called "fascist" regions. Forgive me. I forgot about that.

I just want to make my point here on the floor today loud and clear. There are a lot of double standards happening in our chamber these past couple of years. The natives of Westphalia deserve our assistance in this time of need. I think we should help them. Pushing forward with this proposal to liberate the refounded Westphalia - which is currently under the control of The Black Hawks - not only could help us take back the region in the future on behalf of the natives, but will also send a message loud and clear that this body will not passively allow natives to be trampled on without international consequences.

The Security Council's entire mission is in alignment with this proposal. What would it say to the world if we chose not to stand with Westphalia when we had the chance to do so? Or do we want to shred the last vestiges of credibility we hold here in this chamber? I ask the Ambassadors and world leaders to humbly consider this perspective and to throw their support behind Depackya's proposal.

[Borovan entered the region as he]

why would we want to make the trophy more valuable.

I'm not concerned about any trophy implications or even any perception of a trophy. I support this proposal because my nation is only concerned with fighting for the natives to give them back their home. If this body can fake liberate a region like Kaiserreich without good cause, if that's the kind of world government we want to be, then from this ambassador's point-of-view we ought to usefully employ this preemptive liberation strategy in a way that will actually benefit the world. Imagine that! Instead of sticking our nose where it doesn't belong we actually take the aggressive liberation to the doorstep of regions that have been refounded as a message that we here in the Security Council are serious about native rights. Oh, that's right. This kind of thing is only reserved for so-called "fascist" regions. Forgive me. I forgot about that.

I just want to make my point here on the floor today loud and clear. There are a lot of double standards happening in our chamber these past couple of years. The natives of Westphalia deserve our assistance in this time of need. I think we should help them. Pushing forward with this proposal to liberate the refounded Westphalia - which is currently under the control of The Black Hawks - not only could help us take back the region in the future on behalf of the natives, but will also send a message loud and clear that this body will not passively allow natives to be trampled on without international consequences.

The Security Council's entire mission is in alignment with this proposal. What would it say to the world if we chose not to stand with Westphalia when we had the chance to do so? Or do we want to shred the last vestiges of credibility we hold here in this chamber? I ask the Ambassadors and world leaders to humbly consider this perspective and to throw their support behind Depackya's proposal.

Number one they're fascists, number two the tbh won't give it up and if did the region will be refounded by some region hawk or defender, if latter make no sense as the natives have two successor regions that's under a safe founder.

[Lord Dominator]

Relevant note for the author, but two prior Liberation attempts occurred last year during the original occupation while the region was still under native control.

You may wish to to look into the reasons why both failed if you're serious about trying this.

[Aclion]

why would we want to make the trophy more valuable.

I'm not concerned about any trophy implications or even any perception of a trophy. I support this proposal because my nation is only concerned with fighting for the natives to give them back their home.

Westphalia was occupied for months before it was refounded, where were you?

[Lord Dominator]

One month last year, and two this year, to be clear

[Eumaeus]

The Security Council,

Horrified by the occupation of Westphalia by The Black Hawks (henceforth "TBH");

Personally, I prefer to spell out acronyms in proposals, but you do you.

Noting that TBH, a region already condemned by Security Council Resolution # 52 and Security Council Resolution # 217 for their numerous and aggressive raids, has since refounded and locked down Westphalia;

The blue section violates the force order rule (quantity-opinion-size-age-shape-color-proper adjective-purpose). Isn't English a great language (/sarcasm).

Also noting that TBH took advantage of a recent election, using the region's subsequent weakness during the transition of power to seize control of the delegacy;

I fixed this clause up a bit. There is no real reason to credit the nation serving as delegate, since it was just someone else's puppet. Idk whose puppet it was though so I just put TBH. The use of "free, democratic" was redundant, so I replaced it with "recent" to provide a better explanation of why Westphalia was weak, which I further built upon with the third addition.

Recalling Westphalia's rich history and large, active community prior to the occupation, having reached a height of 642 nations since it was founded in 2011;

I tried to make this clause flow a little better. Sentences with more than one set of parentheses are almost always clunky.

Saddened at the destruction of such a region, and the scattering of such a large community;

Is there no legacy region? Typically if a community relocates a Liberation is good place to advertise the new region, and it gives the reader a means of looking into and evaluating the community they are supposed to care about.

Worried that a lack of legislation will allow TBH to permanently occupy Westphalia, preventing the natives from ever successfully regaining control of their region;

Hoping that a liberation, while it would not be immediately effective (considering the region has been refounded), will prove effective in the long run, should the founder ever cease to exist;

I understand that the argument is that this would be a, in Forestavia's words, "preemptive liberation strategy", and that you think the SC should take a more aggressive gameplay position, but I find such arguments fallacious. If a proposal using this strategy ever passes against a normal raider refound this council will have to be prepared for a deluge of absolute shit proposals attempting to do the same for any region ever refounded by a raider group. That might sound like a good thing to some, but considering the fact that those number well into the hundreds, it would bring the Security Council to a near standstill on current day issues.

Anyways, good job Security Council. I'm proud of you. 20 posts in and this is the first mention of the "shiny badge" argument.

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The natives of Westphalia deserve our assistance in this time of need... send a message loud and clear that this body will not passively allow natives to be trampled on without international consequences.

Have you been in a coma? I mean... it literally did that.

[Lord Dominator]

Poor logic, ambassador. There's no practical benefit to the liberation lauded over the Confederation, either. Liberating this new Westphalia would be, like SCR#263, symbolic. It would show that this World Assembly was most dissatisfied by the unlawful and brutal occupation of the old Westphalia by the Hawks.

Should the one on CCD become specifically useful, it'll likely be destroyed. Should this hypothetical one become useful, we lose... one trophy among at least dozens that likely would only annoy Kyrie. There is indeed a difference in utility.

[Depackya]

So it’s a CoCD sponsored proposal - that should guarantee its failure.

For the record: this proposal is not mainly sponsored by the Confederation. Rather, this proposal has the support of the Westphalian natives, with whom I've been coordinating with while writing it. The only reason the Confederation is involved is because of the natural desire to support a WA proposal coming from one of their members.

Please, let's not turn this into a CCD-bash-fest. I'm not much in the mood for that.

Poor logic, ambassador. There's no practical benefit to the liberation lauded over the Confederation, either. Liberating this new Westphalia would be, like SCR#263, symbolic. It would show that this World Assembly was most dissatisfied by the unlawful and brutal occupation of the old Westphalia by the Hawks.

Should the one on CCD become specifically useful, it'll likely be destroyed. Should this hypothetical one become useful, we lose... one trophy among at least dozens that likely would only annoy Kyrie. There is indeed a difference in utility.

I agree, quite a difference in utility. One is designed to permit the destruction of a region (which isn't exactly the biggest threat to the international community) based solely on the hatred of their tolerance of political ideologies differing with its author. This one, rather, is designed to try and fight TBH, a region notorious for raiding and destroying regions, rather than doing nothing.

The Security Council,

Horrified by the occupation of Westphalia by The Black Hawks (henceforth "TBH");

Personally, I prefer to spell out acronyms in proposals, but you do you.

Noting that TBH, a region already condemned by Security Council Resolution # 52 and Security Council Resolution # 217 for their numerous and aggressive raids, has since refounded and locked down Westphalia;

The blue section violates the force order rule (quantity-opinion-size-age-shape-color-proper adjective-purpose). Isn't English a great language (/sarcasm).

Also noting that TBH took advantage of a recent election, using the region's subsequent weakness during the transition of power to seize control of the delegacy;

I fixed this clause up a bit. There is no real reason to credit the nation serving as delegate, since it was just someone else's puppet. Idk whose puppet it was though so I just put TBH. The use of "free, democratic" was redundant, so I replaced it with "recent" to provide a better explanation of why Westphalia was weak, which I further built upon with the third addition.

Recalling Westphalia's rich history and large, active community prior to the occupation, having reached a height of 642 nations since it was founded in 2011;

I tried to make this clause flow a little better. Sentences with more than one set of parentheses are almost always clunky.

Saddened at the destruction of such a region, and the scattering of such a large community;

Is there no legacy region? Typically if a community relocates a Liberation is good place to advertise the new region, and it gives the reader a means of looking into and evaluating the community they are supposed to care about.

Worried that a lack of legislation will allow TBH to permanently occupy Westphalia, preventing the natives from ever successfully regaining control of their region;

Hoping that a liberation, while it would not be immediately effective (considering the region has been refounded), will prove effective in the long run, should the founder ever cease to exist;

I understand that the argument is that this would be a, in Forestavia's words, "preemptive liberation strategy", and that you think the SC should take a more aggressive gameplay position, but I find such arguments fallacious. If a proposal using this strategy ever passes against a normal raider refound this council will have to be prepared for a deluge of absolute shit proposals attempting to do the same for any region ever refounded by a raider group. That might sound like a good thing to some, but considering the fact that those number well into the hundreds, it would bring the Security Council to a near standstill on current day issues.

Anyways, good job Security Council. I'm proud of you. 20 posts in and this is the first mention of the "shiny badge" argument.

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The natives of Westphalia deserve our assistance in this time of need... send a message loud and clear that this body will not passively allow natives to be trampled on without international consequences.

Have you been in a coma? I mean... it literally did that.

Thank you, much of this is the kind of constructive criticism that I've been looking for.

[Lord Dominator]

Should the one on CCD become specifically useful, it'll likely be destroyed. Should this hypothetical one become useful, we lose... one trophy among at least dozens that likely would only annoy Kyrie. There is indeed a difference in utility.

I agree, quite a difference in utility. One is designed to permit the destruction of a region (which isn't exactly the biggest threat to the international community) based solely on the hatred of their tolerance of political ideologies differing with its author. This one, rather, is designed to try and fight TBH, a region notorious for raiding and destroying regions, rather than doing nothing.

I'm just saying that depriving us of one of our trophies should this hypothetical pass would do essentially nothing to us except possibly annoying someone, as opposed to the CCD one causing significant regional destruction should it become active.

Thank you, much of this is the kind of constructive criticism that I've been looking for.

I'm unclear precisely what wasn't constructive about my prior suggestion to look why the prior two attempts failed, unless you just chose not to mention such.

[Praeceps]

Are you able to demonstrate evidence of the natives wanting this?