Preservation of History (Draft)

[Kenmoria]

“I’ve left some more feedback.”

Understanding that, if history is not learned from, prior mistakes may be repeated.

Acknowledging that children in member nations can learn important lessons from all aspects of history, both positive and negative.

Nothing that certain parts of history have been twisted to a partial truths especially related to war, due to the simple fact that history is written by the victors.

Striving to teach history in an unbiased and nonpartisan way, allowing for a fair and natural view on history.

Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of destroying statues and other controversial symbols of history, modify them to show both sides of history.

- Allow all sides of debate in all public spaces.

- Educate the citizens of member nations on all sides of history.

-Change plaques to better explain the figure depicted.

Article 2 The Fallen Regime Clause.
Statues and monuments from toppled regimes may be destroyed if they meet one or more of the below requirements.
-The regime committed war crimes, or crimes against humanity.
-Regime committed genocide.
-Regime opressed its people.
- The regime was topled by an international coalition.

Article 3 moving of statues/monuments clause
- If 3/4 of a city, country, state/province or nation's legislature wish to remove a statue or monument from a public place, it shall be moved to a more proper place such as a university park or museum.
-The 3/4 rule also applies to referenda of the people.

Article 4 Protection of History
- Items, structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance must be protected at all costs.
- During times of war, combatants should avoid fighting near Items, structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance if at all possible.
- Aerial bombing of structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance is prohibited.

Article 5 what can't be moved.
- War memorials/cemeteries
- Memorials to victims of genocide, war crimes, and terrorism.

Hereby preserves history.

(OOC: Use software such as Grammarly or just Word spellchecker in the future.)

[East Meranopirus]

“I’ve left some more feedback.”

If you don't want to waste your time, you should probably wait till there's a decent draft to put in all the grammar and spelling corrections. So far, despite all its errors, it's still pretty easy to understand what he's trying to say.

[Kenmoria]

“I’ve left some more feedback.”

If you don't want to waste your time, you should probably wait till there's a decent draft to put in all the grammar and spelling corrections. So far, despite all its errors, it's still pretty easy to understand what he's trying to say.

(OOC: The main point of that was too show what should be done with the proposal. It didn’t take long, and should hopefully show how to the author how to easily improve the errors, which were rather numerous.)

[Christian Confederation]

If you don't want to waste your time, you should probably wait till there's a decent draft to put in all the grammar and spelling corrections. So far, despite all its errors, it's still pretty easy to understand what he's trying to say.

(OOC: The main point of that was too show what should be done with the proposal. It didn’t take long, and should hopefully show how to the author how to easily improve the errors, which were rather numerous.)

Yeah I plan to put the thing through Google before I submit.

[Separatist Peoples]

(OOC: The main point of that was too show what should be done with the proposal. It didn’t take long, and should hopefully show how to the author how to easily improve the errors, which were rather numerous.)

Yeah I plan to put the thing through Google before I submit.

OOC: You shouldn't particularly need Google to correct spelling and grammar issues. Unless English is not your primary language, that should just involve a careful reading. Not even that careful, really.

[Araraukar]

Yeah I plan to put the thing through Google before I submit.

OOC: You shouldn't particularly need Google to correct spelling and grammar issues. Unless English is not your primary language, that should just involve a careful reading. Not even that careful, really.

OOC: And not having finished basic education is no excuse to have that many errors. Hell, I wrote better English at that age, and English is a completely foreign language to me!

Just having a browser's spell-checker on (wrestling those things OFF has always been harder ) should've flagged the typos...

[Marxist Germany]

Yeah I plan to put the thing through Google before I submit.

OOC: You shouldn't particularly need Google to correct spelling and grammar issues. Unless English is not your primary language, that should just involve a careful reading. Not even that careful, really.

OOC:Unless he has Dyslexia...

[Kenmoria]

OOC: You shouldn't particularly need Google to correct spelling and grammar issues. Unless English is not your primary language, that should just involve a careful reading. Not even that careful, really.

OOC:Unless he has Dyslexia...

(OOC: Dyslexia doesn’t prevent someone from using a spellchecker, nor from asking a friend to read through the proposal for spelling errors.)

[Jakker]

OOC: Also, ^this will become a problem without any qualifiers. I mean, I'm willing to entertain the thought that you have actually passed basic schooling (though I won't be surprised if you haven't). How much do you remember of what you learned about bronze age in Finland? Or was that even taught about in your school? At least you exist on the same actual planet and universe.

No reason to insult a player so personally just because they have some spelling errors or are new to the GA. When you have a forum that is for ages 13+, you'll get people from all walks of life. It's hard to start in the GA and behavior like this does not help anyone. *** Warned for Flaming ***

[Araraukar]

OOC:Unless he has Dyslexia...

(OOC: Dyslexia doesn’t prevent someone from using a spellchecker, nor from asking a friend to read through the proposal for spelling errors.)

OOC: Also, dyslexia doesn't work the way most people think it does (given how half the internet uses it as their excuse for being lazy writers). Dyslexics know exactly what kinds of errors they normally make, and tend to thus pay very close attention to avoid said errors.

Due to English being a foreign language that has a way of dealing with grammar that's completely alien to my native language, I know I'm mildly "dyslexic" when it comes to using the little grammar words (to/from/on/in/of/etc.), so I try to pay close attention to them (and also the a/an/the, which Finnish also doesn't have), re-read my text before posting (the preview button exists for a reason), re-read it after posting and fix any errors I find. (And ask grammar-savvy English-native friends to check proposal drafts, too.)

No reason to insult a player so personally just because they have some spelling errors or are new to the GA. When you have a forum that is for ages 13+, you'll get people from all walks of life. It's hard to start in the GA and behavior like this does not help anyone.

As I posted in Moderation, it wasn't meant as a flame. Also given that I have offered constructive feedback and offered more advice in TG if they wanted to, I really don't get why I'm getting singled out, but eh, won't stop me from trying to help them anyway.

[Christian Confederation]

Am I deslexic?- not that I'm aware of.
Am I using a spell checker- yes I do, it just doesn't catch everything.
I'm mildly Altistic. mostly effects my social skills, and writing but I don't let it hold me back. Infact I've written a pretty well received dispatch.
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1219583
Plus I'm in several Honours/ AP classes.
So if there is anymore questions please let me know before we continue.

[Araraukar]

Am I deslexic?- not that I'm aware of.
Am I using a spell checker- yes I do, it just doesn't catch everything.
I'm mildly Altistic.

OOC: Every spell-checker I know, would catch those, and also autism has nothing to do with spelling ability. (All browsers I know have spellchecker add-ons, they'll flag the words that are mis-spelled, they can help if you have trouble with spelling.) But instead of taking spelling and grammar critique personally, could you please address the critique on the content? And I don't mean by editing the proposal, but by explaining in a post on this thread.

Re-posting:

- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.

OOC: Also, ^this will become a problem without any qualifiers.

WA nations, even the ones that are modern tech, cannot all exist on the same planet, beyond many of them simply stating not existing on the same planet/universe with others. So you need to specify what history should be taught and to whom. School age kids have other things they need to be learning, too.

My point there was and continues to be that relevancy is important. Kids have so much stuff to learn during their school years (basic education over here is 9 years, and the vast majority of youngsters also go through 3 years of secondary education - in USA terms I think that's like up to 1st year of college) that history cannot be made the most important one, no matter how important history in itself is. And if you're adding more viewpoints on events, you're necessarily going to make the events addressed fewer. Because there are only so many hours that can be used on history as a whole.

Also, I think that "Allow all sides of debate in all public spaces" currently runs foul of the free speech resolution that allows nations to curb free speech when it would amount to someone calling for, say, all people of a certain colour/religion/ethnicity/etc. to be killed, like Nazi rhetoric. If you didn't mean people yelling nasty stuff in public places, then you need to specify what you meant.

Oh and who decides, on the whole proposal, what is historically significant?

Article 2 is named "the fallen regime clause", yet doesn't address a fallen regime? And how does toppling by an international coalition make a regime bad? Like, say, in RL, if all the Arab nations banded together and invaded USA, toppling the government, does that mean all the presidential statues and whatnot should/could be destroyed, simply because the invaders were from more than one nation?

On article 3, whatabout the sole sovereign of a monarchy? If what they say is literally the law, and they want the ugly statue of their precedessor gone, do they need to find a way to hold some kind of election on the idea? And what about if the city or county that Mt. Rushmore (the ginormous carved presidential heads) is in, wanted to remove the monument and got the approval of their citizenry, could they do that without the rest of the country having any say on it? Especially given that it's very unlikely the heads would survive being cut away from the cliff.

Article 4 will sink your battleship. Less obscurely, you can make intentional destruction prohibited even in a war, but wars are messy. Not all bombs land where they should. Things that weren't meant to be destroyed, get destroyed. It happens. Also, the "must be protected at all costs" would seem to imply you wanted to protect buildings and such at the cost of, say, the lives of children. That's never going to be accepted by the various nations. If you want any chance of passing for this, you need to change that clause.

In article 5, you have a random "w crimes" in there, which I think is meant to be "war crimes" instead? And also, what counts as a war memorial? A statue of a general? If so, your proposal is also self-contradictory, which doesn't make it illegal, but makes nations following it, also violate it, and is thus something that needs to be resolved.

[Holy Roman Empires2]

Am I deslexic?- not that I'm aware of.
Am I using a spell checker- yes I do, it just doesn't catch everything.
I'm mildly Altistic.

OOC: Every spell-checker I know, would catch those, and also autism has nothing to do with spelling ability. (All browsers I know have spellchecker add-ons, they'll flag the words that are mis-spelled, they can help if you have trouble with spelling.) But instead of taking spelling and grammar critique personally, could you please address the critique on the content? And I don't mean by editing the proposal, but by explaining in a post on this thread.

Re-posting:

OOC: Also, ^this will become a problem without any qualifiers.

WA nations, even the ones that are modern tech, cannot all exist on the same planet, beyond many of them simply stating not existing on the same planet/universe with others. So you need to specify what history should be taught and to whom. School age kids have other things they need to be learning, too.

My point there was and continues to be that relevancy is important. Kids have so much stuff to learn during their school years (basic education over here is 9 years, and the vast majority of youngsters also go through 3 years of secondary education - in USA terms I think that's like up to 1st year of college) that history cannot be made the most important one, no matter how important history in itself is. And if you're adding more viewpoints on events, you're necessarily going to make the events addressed fewer. Because there are only so many hours that can be used on history as a whole.

Also, I think that "Allow all sides of debate in all public spaces" currently runs foul of the free speech resolution that allows nations to curb free speech when it would amount to someone calling for, say, all people of a certain colour/religion/ethnicity/etc. to be killed, like Nazi rhetoric. If you didn't mean people yelling nasty stuff in public places, then you need to specify what you meant.

Oh and who decides, on the whole proposal, what is historically significant?

Article 2 is named "the fallen regime clause", yet doesn't address a fallen regime? And how does toppling by an international coalition make a regime bad? Like, say, in RL, if all the Arab nations banded together and invaded USA, toppling the government, does that mean all the presidential statues and whatnot should/could be destroyed, simply because the invaders were from more than one nation?

On article 3, whatabout the sole sovereign of a monarchy? If what they say is literally the law, and they want the ugly statue of their precedessor gone, do they need to find a way to hold some kind of election on the idea? And what about if the city or county that Mt. Rushmore (the ginormous carved presidential heads) is in, wanted to remove the monument and got the approval of their citizenry, could they do that without the rest of the country having any say on it? Especially given that it's very unlikely the heads would survive being cut away from the cliff.

Article 4 will sink your battleship. Less obscurely, you can make intentional destruction prohibited even in a war, but wars are messy. Not all bombs land where they should. Things that weren't meant to be destroyed, get destroyed. It happens. Also, the "must be protected at all costs" would seem to imply you wanted to protect buildings and such at the cost of, say, the lives of children. That's never going to be accepted by the various nations. If you want any chance of passing for this, you need to change that clause.

In article 5, you have a random "w crimes" in there, which I think is meant to be "war crimes" instead? And also, what counts as a war memorial? A statue of a general? If so, your proposal is also self-contradictory, which doesn't make it illegal, but makes nations following it, also violate it, and is thus something that needs to be resolved.

I walked into this forum, and perhaps I'm wrong (I many times am) however is seems that you are writing an essay on this dudes forum posts (I know him in ns btw) "cherry picking" his every word. I'll do the same:
The word self contradicting comes from letters. Letters themselves, as well as all language comes from various forms. Such as greek. If you are to look at the Bulgarian alphabet, you can see that many of the letters are the same such as ah, be, ce, de, we, ex. This explains the letters, the essence of the words self contradicting. If you were to look at the Spanish alphabet, you would see.....

What did I just do? Write an entire essay on something that's meaningless. Such as w crimes. Wasted time doing this, at least to make a point....

[The New Nordic Union]

All OOC:

I walked into this forum, and perhaps I'm wrong (I many times am) however is seems that you are writing an essay on this dudes forum posts (I know him in ns btw) "cherry picking" his every word.

You might be new around here, but this is exactly how criticinsing a draft proposal works.

I'll do the same:
The word self contradicting comes from letters. Letters themselves, as well as all language comes from various forms. Such as greek. If you are to look at the Bulgarian alphabet, you can see that many of the letters are the same such as ah, be, ce, de, we, ex. This explains the letters, the essence of the words self contradicting. If you were to look at the Spanish alphabet, you would see.....

What did I just do? Write an entire essay on something that's meaningless. Such as w crimes. Wasted time doing this, at least to make a point....

What?

[Kenmoria]

“I’ve left some comments on the draft, as ever in red. Unlike before, these are criticisms and not corrections, so don’t copy these into your draft.”

Understanding that, if history is not learned from, prior mistakes may be repeated.

Acknowledging that children in member nations can learn important lessons from all aspects of history, both positive and negative. By saying ‘both positive and negative’, you imply that all of history falls into these two categories, which isn’t true. I suggest therefore rewording this.

Nothing that certain parts of history have been twisted to a partial truths especially related to war, due to the simple fact that history is written by the victors. It should be ‘noting’, not ‘nothing’. Also, the word ‘a’ is erroneous and should not be there.

Striving to teach history in an unbiased and nonpartisan way, allowing for a fair and natural view on history. This line sounds as though it is the GA that directly teaches history, so should be rewritten to make it clearer that it is member nations who are the teachers.

Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of destroying statues and other controversial symbols of history, modify them to show both sides of history. For all issues? For example, Kenmoria fought against some racists called the Nazis about 75 years ago; should we have statues that acknowledge their contributions as well as ours? Also, once again, there are often more than two sides to an issue, so ‘both’ doesn’t fit.

- Allow all sides of debate in all public spaces. Once again, this would mean that racists, sexists, homophobes and religious bigots would all be free to debate in public spaces. Also, it possibly contradicts ‘Protecting Free Expression’.

- Educate the citizens of member nations on all sides of history. This line doesn’t fully fit with the idea that this proposal will affect member nations, who won’t have the ability to educate citizens from multiple nations.

-Change plaques to better explain the figure depicted. All plaques? Even ones that are already very clear? Even those that have survived unaltered for thousands of years?

Article 2 The Fallen Regime Clause.
Statues and monuments from toppled regimes may be destroyed if they meet one or more of the below requirements.
-The regime committed war crimes, or crimes against humanity.
-Regime committed genocide. This would fall in the above criteria.
-Regime opressed its people. This line, and the above one, should have ‘the’ before ‘regime’.
- The regime was topled by an international coalition. ‘Toppled’ should be here, not ‘topled’. Also, this would include international coalitions of terrorists.

Article 3 moving of statues/monuments clause
- If 3/4 of a city, country, state/province or nation's legislature wish to remove a statue or monument from a public place, it shall be moved to a more proper place such as a university park or museum. Just wish? Are we supposed to have mind-reading machines to assess what people wish would happen. You should require a more substantial effort than mere wanting, ambassador.
-The 3/4 rule also applies to referenda of the people. In what way? How is this different from the above clause.

Article 4 Protection of History
- Items, structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance must be protected at all costs. All costs includes human life and the survival of nations.
- During times of war, combatants should avoid fighting near Items, structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance if at all possible. Why is ‘Items’ capitalised?
- Aerial bombing of structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance is prohibited.

Article 5 what can't be moved. Even to avoid them being destroyed?
- War memorials/cemeteries
- Memorials to victims of genocide, war crimes, and terrorism.

Hereby preserves history. This line doesn’t fit and ought to be removed.

[Bears Armed]

OOC
History is history. The only way to not preserve it is by using a time-machine to go back and make changes (and a previous attempt at banning that never got past the drafting stage...): What you really mean here is "the knowledge of History"...

[Holy Roman Empires2]

All OOC:

I walked into this forum, and perhaps I'm wrong (I many times am) however is seems that you are writing an essay on this dudes forum posts (I know him in ns btw) "cherry picking" his every word.

You might be new around here, but this is exactly how criticinsing a draft proposal works.

I'll do the same:
The word self contradicting comes from letters. Letters themselves, as well as all language comes from various forms. Such as greek. If you are to look at the Bulgarian alphabet, you can see that many of the letters are the same such as ah, be, ce, de, we, ex. This explains the letters, the essence of the words self contradicting. If you were to look at the Spanish alphabet, you would see.....

What did I just do? Write an entire essay on something that's meaningless. Such as w crimes. Wasted time doing this, at least to make a point....

What?

Sorry, errrrm, never really been into forums.