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Preservation of History (Draft)

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.
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Christian Confederation
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Preservation of History (Draft)

Postby Christian Confederation » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:30 pm

Understanding that, if history is not learned from, prior mistakes may be repeated.

Acknowledging that children in member nations can learn important lessons from all aspects of history, both positive and negative.

Nothing that certain parts of history have been twisted to a partial truths especially related to war, due to the simple fact that history is written by the victors.

Striving to teach history in an unbiased and nonpartisan way, allowing for a fair and natural view on history.

Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of destroying statues and other controversial symbols of history, modify them to show both sides of history.

- Allow all sides of debate in all public spaces.

- Educate the citizens of member nations on all sides of history.

-Change plaques to better explain the figure depicted.

Article 2 The Fallen Regime Clause.
Statues and monuments from toppled regimes may be destroyed if they meet one or more of the below requirements.
-The regime committed war crimes, or crimes against humanity.
-Regime committed genocide.
-Regime opressed its people.
- The regime was topled by an international coalition.

Article 3 moving of statues/monuments clause
- If 3/4 of a city, country, state/province or nation's legislature wish to remove a statue or monument from a public place, it shall be moved to a more proper place such as a university park or museum.
-The 3/4 rule also applies to referenda of the people.

Article 4 Protection of History
- Items, structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance must be protected at all costs.
- During times of war, combatants should avoid fighting near Items, structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance if at all possible.
- Aerial bombing of structures, statues, and monuments of historical significance is prohibited.

Article 5 what can't be moved.
- War memorials/cemeteries
- Memorials to victims of genocide, war crimes, and terrorism.

Hereby preserves history.
Last edited by Christian Confederation on Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:23 pm, edited 8 times in total.
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Sierra Lyricalia
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:37 pm

OOC: Welcome to the World Assembly! Unfortunately this draft would be illegal if submitted. The biggest problem you have is that you don't appear to require member states to actually do anything. Your only operative clause ("...Hereby preserves history") is so vague as to be essentially meaningless. How will you require member states to "preserve history"? What does that mean, exactly, and what day-to-day actions must nations take to comply with this? Spell those out and you'll have the start of a proposal. After that will come a lot of work to refine and improve it over a period of weeks, probably.

Good luck!
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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:47 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: Welcome to the World Assembly! Unfortunately this draft would be illegal if submitted. The biggest problem you have is that you don't appear to require member states to actually do anything. Your only operative clause ("...Hereby preserves history") is so vague as to be essentially meaningless. How will you require member states to "preserve history"? What does that mean, exactly, and what day-to-day actions must nations take to comply with this? Spell those out and you'll have the start of a proposal. After that will come a lot of work to refine and improve it over a period of weeks, probably.

Good luck!

Understanding that if History is not Lerned from we are doomed to repeat it.

Acknowledging that all sides of history, both good and bad hold lessons we can learn from.

Nothing that certain parts of our history have been twisted to a Partal truths. Especially related to war, do to the simple fact that History is written by the Victor's.

Striving to Teach History from a Unbiased, and nonpartisan way. Allowing for a Fair and Nuteral view on History.

Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of Destroying Statues and other Controversial Symbols of history, modifie them to show both sides of history.

- Allow all sides of debate in all public Spaces.

- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.


Hearby preserves history.
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East Meranopirus
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Postby East Meranopirus » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:59 am

Christian Confederation wrote:Understanding that if History is not Lerned from we are doomed to repeat it.

Acknowledging that all sides of history, both good and bad hold lessons we can learn from.

Nothing that certain parts of our history have been twisted to a Partal truths. Especially related to war, do to the simple fact that History is written by the Victor's.

Striving to Teach History from a Unbiased, and nonpartisan way. Allowing for a Fair and Nuteral view on History.

Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of Destroying Statues and other Controversial Symbols of history, modifie them to show both sides of history.

- Allow all sides of debate in all public Spaces.

- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.


Hearby preserves history.

Please put updated drafts in your original post, and add spoiler tags to minimise previous drafts.

That said, this draft is still illegal for not obligating member states to do anything. You simply outlined what you think is a way to "preserve history". Try instead for things like requiring member states not to destroy historical records, requiring them to teach history from the viewpoint of all parties, and other similar things. I think reading the passed resolutions and some of the guides pinned to the top of this forum would also help you in writing a cohesive proposal.

As a last note, I also suggest you to check your spelling and capitalisation. There's a few consistent errors in both of your drafts.
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Christian Confederation
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Preservation of History (abandoned)

Postby Christian Confederation » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:15 am

This was a stupid idea.
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:08 am

Christian Confederation wrote:This was a stupid idea.

(OOC: The idea itself wasn’t too bad, and had some potential. Although there are some problems with the rules, I have seen far worse proposals here on the forums, and you appear to be taking feedback and adding to your legislation. It is ultimately up to you whether or not you continue with this draft, but do remember that drafting at all, partly regardless of success, is a good experience for the future.)
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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:19 am

Kenmoria wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:This was a stupid idea.

(OOC: The idea itself wasn’t too bad, and had some potential. Although there are some problems with the rules, I have seen far worse proposals here on the forums, and you appear to be taking feedback and adding to your legislation. It is ultimately up to you whether or not you continue with this draft, but do remember that drafting at all, partly regardless of success, is a good experience for the future.)

Agreed, I'll probably come back to this later, now I'll try something less controversial.
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East Meranopirus
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Postby East Meranopirus » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:44 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:Agreed, I'll probably come back to this later, now I'll try something less controversial.

Please don't think this bill is controversial, because certainly nothing anyone said has reflected that so far. In fact I would say it has more potential than the other proposal you put forward.
Elusively never IC in the WA forums. Also author of (probably soon to be repealed) GA Resolution #464

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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:33 am

East Meranopirus wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:Agreed, I'll probably come back to this later, now I'll try something less controversial.

Please don't think this bill is controversial, because certainly nothing anyone said has reflected that so far. In fact I would say it has more potential than the other proposal you put forward.

The alien Amnisty Act?
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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:27 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:Understanding that if History is not Lerned from we are doomed to repeat it.

Acknowledging that all sides of history, both good and bad hold lessons we can learn from.

Nothing that certain parts of our history have been twisted to a Partal truths. Especially related to war, do to the simple fact that History is written by the Victor's.

Striving to Teach History from a Unbiased, and nonpartisan way. Allowing for a Fair and Nuteral view on History.

Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of Destroying Statues and other Controversial Symbols of history, modifie them to show both sides of history.

- Allow all sides of debate in all public Spaces.

- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.


Hearby preserves history.

Any ideas at all?
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:00 pm

“I’ve put some corrections in red.”
Christian Confederation wrote:Understanding that, if history is not learned from, prior mistakes may be repeated.

Acknowledging that children in member nations can learn important lessons from all aspects of history, both positive and negative.

Nothing that certain parts of history have been twisted to a partial truths especially related to war, due to the simple fact that history is written by the victors.

Striving to teach history from an unbiased and nonpartisan way, allowing for a fair and natural view on History.


“Your active clauses, particularly the last one, ought to be rewritten in order to be far more precise and easy for members nations to follow.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:01 pm

"Ambassador, there is no neutral view of history. History is an inherently opinionated and political realm of thought. It is for that reason that only so many different ways of viewing history ought to be promoted by member states. There are many interpretations of history designed to propagate such tyranny and bloodshed that they cannot safely be allowed to stand alongside modern, civilized interpretations."
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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:30 pm

Kenmoria wrote:“I’ve put some corrections in red.”
Christian Confederation wrote:Understanding that, if history is not learned from, prior mistakes may be repeated.

Acknowledging that children in member nations can learn important lessons from all aspects of history, both positive and negative.

Nothing that certain parts of history have been twisted to a partial truths especially related to war, due to the simple fact that history is written by the victors.

Striving to teach history from an unbiased and nonpartisan way, allowing for a fair and natural view on History.


“Your active clauses, particularly the last one, ought to be rewritten in order to be far more precise and easy for members nations to follow.”

Your corrections have been added.

Now to the problem.
Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of Destroying Statues and other Controversial Symbols of history, modifie them to show both sides of history.

- Allow all sides of debate in all public Spaces.

- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.


Hearby preserves history.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:50 pm

Christian Confederation wrote:*snip*

OOC: Take the most offensive thing you can think of, then imagine your actual RL home nation had only just managed to gain its independence from a bigger nation that had enslaved your people, your family, yourself, and made a statue of the Most Offensive Thing, placing it in what had just become a capital of your home nation, and then RL UN saying you can't do anything about the statue that's only there because your former enslavers thought so little of your people, and then you might have the tiniest bit of inklings why it's a bad idea to require the statues not to be removed.

Also, it's not easy to modify statues and monuments, especially big ones. Think of the presidential heads carved on a mountainside somewhere in USA (can't remember the location name) - imagine if two of them would need to be changed into Native American heads due to this proposal of yours. Do you really think that would 1. be doable and 2. be done?
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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:53 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:*snip*

OOC: Take the most offensive thing you can think of, then imagine your actual RL home nation had only just managed to gain its independence from a bigger nation that had enslaved your people, your family, yourself, and made a statue of the Most Offensive Thing, placing it in what had just become a capital of your home nation, and then RL UN saying you can't do anything about the statue that's only there because your former enslavers thought so little of your people, and then you might have the tiniest bit of inklings why it's a bad idea to require the statues not to be removed.

Also, it's not easy to modify statues and monuments, especially big ones. Think of the presidential heads carved on a mountainside somewhere in USA (can't remember the location name) - imagine if two of them would need to be changed into Native American heads due to this proposal of yours. Do you really think that would 1. be doable and 2. be done?

Intertaning, I'll add in a clause for that.
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East Meranopirus
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Postby East Meranopirus » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:28 pm

As people have said again and again, you really do need to read passed resolutions and all the other guides to the GA. You don't have to read all of them, but you need to read enough to know how GA resolutions work.

Just some examples:
The "Hereby..." clause does not go in the end, it goes right after your preamble. And it's followed up by clauses that start with a verb, such as "Mandates that nations..." or "Requires nations to..."

Your entire Article I is very vague and prone to misinterpretation. What are "both sides of history"? Is it "both sides" or "all sides" of history? What counts as a side? Should the side of Nazis be taught? Should students be required to read Mein Kampf or The Communist Manifesto (these are IRL examples, they don't exist in the NS world)? Why shouldn't nations be allowed to decide how to teach history for themselves? Should the ideology of a nation's oppressors be taught in school?

These are all questions you need to think about
Last edited by East Meranopirus on Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Igueranel
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Postby Igueranel » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:03 pm

OOC: Take the most offensive thing you can think of, then imagine your actual RL home nation had only just managed to gain its independence from a bigger nation that had enslaved your people, your family, yourself, and made a statue of the Most Offensive Thing, placing it in what had just become a capital of your home nation, and then RL UN saying you can't do anything about the statue that's only there because your former enslavers thought so little of your people, and then you might have the tiniest bit of inklings why it's a bad idea to require the statues not to be removed.

Also, it's not easy to modify statues and monuments, especially big ones. Think of the presidential heads carved on a mountainside somewhere in USA (can't remember the location name) - imagine if two of them would need to be changed into Native American heads due to this proposal of yours. Do you really think that would 1. be doable and 2. be done?


OOC: Large monuments cannot reasonably be removed or changed, so really all that can be done is tell a more complete story of the history behind them, rather than purely positive or negative propaganda.

It probably isn't a good idea to prohibit the removal of smaller statues and monuments. Perhaps it would be best for this proposal to allow communities and nations choose to remove them if they wish, but to prohibit destroying them. Require that they be moved to historical displays in museums or universities where they can serve as educational tools for learning history, rather than public reminders of bad points in a nation's history.

The both sides of history part is really hard to define or enforce. Sure, I would want people to get a complete picture of historical events, but the further back in history the event in question, the harder that becomes. Often there are more than just two sides to history as well. Sometimes every witness to an event tells a different story. You'll have a very hard time convincing some regimes to talk about old enemies in fair terms, and new nations are not likely to remember their former rulers positively.

Perhaps rather than trying to enforce a balanced view of history in every member nation here, a better issue to tackle in the proposal would be action against groups intentionally destroying history(think certain real world groups that destroy historical sites and monuments). It would be very helpeful to the study of history if nations took a more active role in protecting historical sites from vandalism and terrorism.

This has potential, but as has been said, it must require real action on the part of member nations.

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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:43 pm

Igueranel wrote:
OOC: Take the most offensive thing you can think of, then imagine your actual RL home nation had only just managed to gain its independence from a bigger nation that had enslaved your people, your family, yourself, and made a statue of the Most Offensive Thing, placing it in what had just become a capital of your home nation, and then RL UN saying you can't do anything about the statue that's only there because your former enslavers thought so little of your people, and then you might have the tiniest bit of inklings why it's a bad idea to require the statues not to be removed.

Also, it's not easy to modify statues and monuments, especially big ones. Think of the presidential heads carved on a mountainside somewhere in USA (can't remember the location name) - imagine if two of them would need to be changed into Native American heads due to this proposal of yours. Do you really think that would 1. be doable and 2. be done?


OOC: Large monuments cannot reasonably be removed or changed, so really all that can be done is tell a more complete story of the history behind them, rather than purely positive or negative propaganda.

It probably isn't a good idea to prohibit the removal of smaller statues and monuments. Perhaps it would be best for this proposal to allow communities and nations choose to remove them if they wish, but to prohibit destroying them. Require that they be moved to historical displays in museums or universities where they can serve as educational tools for learning history, rather than public reminders of bad points in a nation's history.

The both sides of history part is really hard to define or enforce. Sure, I would want people to get a complete picture of historical events, but the further back in history the event in question, the harder that becomes. Often there are more than just two sides to history as well. Sometimes every witness to an event tells a different story. You'll have a very hard time convincing some regimes to talk about old enemies in fair terms, and new nations are not likely to remember their former rulers positively.

Perhaps rather than trying to enforce a balanced view of history in every member nation here, a better issue to tackle in the proposal would be action against groups intentionally destroying history(think certain real world groups that destroy historical sites and monuments). It would be very helpeful to the study of history if nations took a more active role in protecting historical sites from vandalism and terrorism.

This has potential, but as has been said, it must require real action on the part of member nations.

Great point I will add your points tomorrow tonight.
Last edited by Christian Confederation on Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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East Meranopirus
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Postby East Meranopirus » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:34 am

Again, you still refuse to read the passed resolutions or any guides on how to write a good GA resolution. If you had read just one of them, you'd know that yours is written incorrectly.

But on the content, your reference to legislatures are problematic because it assumes all nations have a legislature. It's also hinging on WA overreach, as what national/provincial/local legislatures do should be their own business, not the World Assembly's. I suggest you instead to write a set of criteria for which a monument can be moved.

As the previous poster suggested, you could change your focus to specifically groups that destroy historical artifacts and monuments, instead of trying to enforce a complete view of history, which is very difficult from a scholarly standpoint, and can be problematic if it essentially contributes to the spreading of an evil ideology.
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Christian Confederation
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Postby Christian Confederation » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:40 am

East Meranopirus wrote:Again, you still refuse to read the passed resolutions or any guides on how to write a good GA resolution. If you had read just one of them, you'd know that yours is written incorrectly.

But on the content, your reference to legislatures are problematic because it assumes all nations have a legislature. It's also hinging on WA overreach, as what national/provincial/local legislatures do should be their own business, not the World Assembly's. I suggest you instead to write a set of criteria for which a monument can be moved.

As the previous poster suggested, you could change your focus to specifically groups that destroy historical artifacts and monuments, instead of trying to enforce a complete view of history, which is very difficult from a scholarly standpoint, and can be problematic if it essentially contributes to the spreading of an evil ideology.

What do you suggest we remove? The document is op and up to date with past recommendations.
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East Meranopirus
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Postby East Meranopirus » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:45 am

Christian Confederation wrote:What do you suggest we remove? The document is op and up to date with past recommendations.

I'm suggesting you to read past resolutions and figure out how you can write your resolution in line with General Assembly conventions. It is still problematic in several ways, both structure-wise and content-wise.
Elusively never IC in the WA forums. Also author of (probably soon to be repealed) GA Resolution #464

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:51 am

I don't think you can require referendums. That would encroach on the ideological ban rule for requiring member states to be, at least to some extent, democracies.

Of course, I'm not sure. That rule has been stripped down to the bare bones and even then I've gotten stuff wrong on that.
PROFESSIONAL CRITIC OF ALL THINGS GENSEC
There never has been, nor will there ever be, such thing as a wallenburger.
grestin went through the MKULTRA program and he has more of a free will than wallenburg does - Imperial Idaho
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Kenmoria
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:58 am

“Why are there so many capital letters dotted everywhere? When I did my corrections on my preamble, half of them were removing strange majuscule forms from the middle of sentences. Also, please fix your spelling mistakes; it’s annoying to have to work out what a word is supposed to be when critiquing, and makes it harder to address the actual content.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Araraukar
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Posts: 13809
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:06 am

Christian Confederation wrote:- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.

OOC: Also, ^this will become a problem without any qualifiers. I mean, I'm willing to entertain the thought that you have actually passed basic schooling (though I won't be surprised if you haven't). How much do you remember of what you learned about bronze age in Finland? Or was that even taught about in your school? At least you exist on the same actual planet and universe.

WA nations, even the ones that are modern tech, cannot all exist on the same planet, beyond many of them simply stating not existing on the same planet/universe with others. So you need to specify what history should be taught and to whom. School age kids have other things they need to be learning, too.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Christian Confederation
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Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Christian Confederation » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:12 am

Araraukar wrote:
Christian Confederation wrote:- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.

OOC: Also, ^this will become a problem without any qualifiers. I mean, I'm willing to entertain the thought that you have actually passed basic schooling (though I won't be surprised if you haven't). How much do you remember of what you learned about bronze age in Finland? Or was that even taught about in your school? At least you exist on the same actual planet and universe.

WA nations, even the ones that are modern tech, cannot all exist on the same planet, beyond many of them simply stating not existing on the same planet/universe with others. So you need to specify what history should be taught and to whom. School age kids have other things they need to be learning, too.

Yes I have passed all my schooling up until this point and will be a sophomore in HS next year.
Honors World history and AP chemistry FYI.

Spelling is just not a strength of mine, or ever has been a strength.
Last edited by Christian Confederation on Sat Jun 08, 2019 3:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
Founder of the moderate alliance
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