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Alabama Votes to Abolish Marriage Licences

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Alabama Votes to Abolish Marriage Licences

Postby Shrillland » Sat May 25, 2019 6:30 am

Yes, really. From AL.com: https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/alabama-lawmakers-pass-bill-to-end-marriage-licenses.html

The Alabama House of Representatives gave final passage today to a bill that would end the issuance of marriage licenses by probate judges and instead have them record documents that would serve as the official records of marriage.

The bill goes to Gov. Kay Ivey, who could sign it into law.

The legislation came in response to the legalization of same-sex marriage by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2015. In Alabama, some probate judges stopped issuing marriage licenses four years ago because they did not want to sign same-sex marriage licenses.

Under the bill that passed today, couples wanting to get married would submit to the probate judge a form that includes an affidavit saying they meet the legal requirements of marriage and the probate judge would record that as the official marriage document.

The House passed the bill, by Sen. Greg Albritton, R-Range, by a vote of 67-26. It had already passed the Senate.

Probate judges in some counties are still not issuing marriage licenses. The current law does not require them to issue licenses, but says they “may.”

Under Albritton’s bill, probate judges would be required to accept and record the official marriage documents.

“It allows everybody in the state now to go to their local courthouse, or wherever, to accomplish this without traveling somewhere else, which is the intent of the law,” Albritton said.

The bill also would end the requirement that a marriage be “solemnized” by a minister or another person qualified to do so. Albritton said he thought it was appropriate to separate that religious component of marriage from the state law.


Among those voting against the bill today was Rep. Neil Rafferty, D-Birmingham, who is gay and married his partner of 15 years in December.

“I feel like while in and of itself it is not prejudiced, I feel like it was born out of prejudice though," Rafferty said. "That’s just kind of my ultimate feelings, why I ultimately couldn’t support the bill, even though in and of itself it does create a system that treats everyone equal before the state.”

Rafferty said he believes the bill would allow probate judges who are not issuing marriage licenses because of their personal beliefs to skirt their responsibilities.

“I think it’s far less about good governance and more about protecting folks that don’t want to do their jobs," Rafferty said.

Rep. Wes Allen, R-Troy, was among those voting for the bill today. Allen is the former probate judge in Pike County and stopped issuing marriage licenses in 2015.

“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, as do a lot of Alabamians,” Allen said. He noted that about 80 percent of Alabama voters approved a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a unique relationship between a man and a woman in 2006.

“The probate judge has to sign the marriage license,” Allen said. "And effectively, by your signature going on that marriage license, basically in my opinion, you’re endorsing it. Because it’s your signature, just like you’re signing a check, you’re endorsing it. And that was one of the objections that I had back in 2015."

Albritton’s bill had passed the Senate in previous years but never made it through the House. The senator, who is an attorney, said he’s been working on the issue since 2015.

“I’m trying to find a path that’s legal and has the least effect with the greatest amount of benefit," Albritton said. "And I think I found that.”


So here's what happened. Ever since Obergfell v. Hodges, a lot of Alabama's probate judges have refused to sign marriage licences because they didn't want to endorse same-sex marriages. So, now the House and Senate have passed, and Ivey's expected to sign, this bill that does away with marriage licences once and for all. Instead, the two getting married would fill out a form that includes an affidavit that says that they fill all legal qualifications, and that would serve as the official record. It also says marriages wouldn't have to be "solemnised" by a minister or a justice of the peace to be considered valid.

What say you about this, NSG?

I think that, setting aside the obvious reasons of covering the judges' arses, this could cause more problems than some may think. When we look at how many of the legal benefits that come from marriage require a marriage licence as proof, and taking into consideration that, at least as far as I know, and let me know if I'm wrong about this, the Federal Government doesn't have any provision for anything besides a marriage licence for domestic marriages, this could lead to a lot of couples in Alabama being left in the lurch when it comes to things like Social Security, tax purposes, visitation and estate rights and the like.
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sat May 25, 2019 6:33 am

Alabama did something good for once? Amazing.
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Postby -Astoria » Sat May 25, 2019 6:35 am

Why am I not surprised - this is from the same state that "cares about lives", yet at the exact same time takes away lives.
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Postby American Pere Housh » Sat May 25, 2019 6:45 am

Shrillland wrote:Yes, really. From AL.com: https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/alabama-lawmakers-pass-bill-to-end-marriage-licenses.html

The Alabama House of Representatives gave final passage today to a bill that would end the issuance of marriage licenses by probate judges and instead have them record documents that would serve as the official records of marriage.

The bill goes to Gov. Kay Ivey, who could sign it into law.

The legislation came in response to the legalization of same-sex marriage by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2015. In Alabama, some probate judges stopped issuing marriage licenses four years ago because they did not want to sign same-sex marriage licenses.

Under the bill that passed today, couples wanting to get married would submit to the probate judge a form that includes an affidavit saying they meet the legal requirements of marriage and the probate judge would record that as the official marriage document.

The House passed the bill, by Sen. Greg Albritton, R-Range, by a vote of 67-26. It had already passed the Senate.

Probate judges in some counties are still not issuing marriage licenses. The current law does not require them to issue licenses, but says they “may.”

Under Albritton’s bill, probate judges would be required to accept and record the official marriage documents.

“It allows everybody in the state now to go to their local courthouse, or wherever, to accomplish this without traveling somewhere else, which is the intent of the law,” Albritton said.

The bill also would end the requirement that a marriage be “solemnized” by a minister or another person qualified to do so. Albritton said he thought it was appropriate to separate that religious component of marriage from the state law.


Among those voting against the bill today was Rep. Neil Rafferty, D-Birmingham, who is gay and married his partner of 15 years in December.

“I feel like while in and of itself it is not prejudiced, I feel like it was born out of prejudice though," Rafferty said. "That’s just kind of my ultimate feelings, why I ultimately couldn’t support the bill, even though in and of itself it does create a system that treats everyone equal before the state.”

Rafferty said he believes the bill would allow probate judges who are not issuing marriage licenses because of their personal beliefs to skirt their responsibilities.

“I think it’s far less about good governance and more about protecting folks that don’t want to do their jobs," Rafferty said.

Rep. Wes Allen, R-Troy, was among those voting for the bill today. Allen is the former probate judge in Pike County and stopped issuing marriage licenses in 2015.

“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, as do a lot of Alabamians,” Allen said. He noted that about 80 percent of Alabama voters approved a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a unique relationship between a man and a woman in 2006.

“The probate judge has to sign the marriage license,” Allen said. "And effectively, by your signature going on that marriage license, basically in my opinion, you’re endorsing it. Because it’s your signature, just like you’re signing a check, you’re endorsing it. And that was one of the objections that I had back in 2015."

Albritton’s bill had passed the Senate in previous years but never made it through the House. The senator, who is an attorney, said he’s been working on the issue since 2015.

“I’m trying to find a path that’s legal and has the least effect with the greatest amount of benefit," Albritton said. "And I think I found that.”


So here's what happened. Ever since Obergfell v. Hodges, a lot of Alabama's probate judges have refused to sign marriage licences because they didn't want to endorse same-sex marriages. So, now the House and Senate have passed, and Ivey's expected to sign, this bill that does away with marriage licences once and for all. Instead, the two getting married would fill out a form that includes an affidavit that says that they fill all legal qualifications, and that would serve as the official record. It also says marriages wouldn't have to be "solemnised" by a minister or a justice of the peace to be considered valid.

What say you about this, NSG?

I think that, setting aside the obvious reasons of covering the judges' arses, this could cause more problems than some may think. When we look at how many of the legal benefits that come from marriage require a marriage licence as proof, and taking into consideration that, at least as far as I know, and let me know if I'm wrong about this, the Federal Government doesn't have any provision for anything besides a marriage licence for domestic marriages, this could lead to a lot of couples in Alabama being left in the lurch when it comes to things like Social Security, tax purposes, visitation and estate rights and the like.

My home state did something right for once.
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Postby Gormwood » Sat May 25, 2019 7:45 am

Mostly to dodge class action lawsuits while letting their judges go "Faggots Are Icky".
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Postby Galloism » Sat May 25, 2019 7:48 am

I mean, this is just a marriage license by another name.

Whether you call it a “marriage license” or a “marriage record” doesn’t really change anything at all.
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Postby Gormwood » Sat May 25, 2019 7:50 am

Galloism wrote:I mean, this is just a marriage license by another name.

Whether you call it a “marriage license” or a “marriage record” doesn’t really change anything at all.

It just lets Evangelical judges dodge having to preside over Icky Gay Weddings while protecting the state from class action lawsuits.
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Postby Galloism » Sat May 25, 2019 7:53 am

Gormwood wrote:
Galloism wrote:I mean, this is just a marriage license by another name.

Whether you call it a “marriage license” or a “marriage record” doesn’t really change anything at all.

It just lets Evangelical judges dodge having to preside over Icky Gay Weddings while protecting the state from class action lawsuits.

I guess - but they weren’t required to before. They had to sign the certificate, but there was no requirement to officiate a wedding.

No one is harmed by this what I am generously calling “change”, and everyone is treated equally. It’s just a name change, basically.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat May 25, 2019 8:10 am

If it was up to me I would have fired all the judges who refused to sign marriage licenses, but I suppose this works too.
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Postby Telconi » Sat May 25, 2019 9:24 am

TFW Alabama is the leader of marriage equality...
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Postby Gigaverse » Sat May 25, 2019 9:29 am

Telconi wrote:TFW Alabama is the leader of marriage equality...

so when is sibling marriage gonna be legalized
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Postby Shrillland » Sat May 25, 2019 10:11 am

Gigaverse wrote:
Telconi wrote:TFW Alabama is the leader of marriage equality...

so when is sibling marriage gonna be legalized


I don't think it'll go that far, though I can see some potential issues with couples lying under oath since these would be sworn affidavits.
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Postby Kowani » Sat May 25, 2019 10:15 am

Ifreann wrote:If it was up to me I would have fired all the judges who refused to sign marriage licenses, but I suppose this works too.

Yep, this.
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Postby Shofercia » Sat May 25, 2019 1:39 pm

Excellent compromise choice by Alabamians.
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Postby Totally Not OEP » Sat May 25, 2019 3:55 pm

Ifreann wrote:If it was up to me I would have fired all the judges who refused to sign marriage licenses, but I suppose this works too.


And if it was up to me, we would've called up elements of the Military and launched a crackdown on the supporters of Obergfell. Such is, unfortunately, life.

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Postby Neanderthaland » Sat May 25, 2019 3:56 pm

Gigaverse wrote:
Telconi wrote:TFW Alabama is the leader of marriage equality...

so when is sibling marriage gonna be legalized

Is that illegal in Alabama?
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Postby Nova Cyberia » Sat May 25, 2019 3:58 pm

Sounds like a decent compromise between respecting people's personal religious beliefs and upholding the SCOTUS ruling.

Good job, Alabama.
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Postby Weimar Germany- » Sat May 25, 2019 3:58 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Gigaverse wrote:so when is sibling marriage gonna be legalized

Is that illegal in Alabama?

I don't think it ever was.

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Postby Nova Cyberia » Sat May 25, 2019 3:58 pm

Neanderthaland wrote:
Gigaverse wrote:so when is sibling marriage gonna be legalized

Is that illegal in Alabama?

I think most states have bans on certain types of incestuous marriages.
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Postby Philjia » Sat May 25, 2019 4:28 pm

Abolishing formal marriage to own the libs. I mean, I actually support this in principle but it's a weird flex.
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Postby Ifreann » Sat May 25, 2019 4:33 pm

Philjia wrote:Abolishing formal marriage to own the libs. I mean, I actually support this in principle but it's a weird flex.

They're not abolishing marriage, just slightly changing how marriages are recorded to pacify some judges who get triggered at their name being on a marriage license for a gay couple.
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Postby Philjia » Sat May 25, 2019 4:37 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Philjia wrote:Abolishing formal marriage to own the libs. I mean, I actually support this in principle but it's a weird flex.

They're not abolishing marriage, just slightly changing how marriages are recorded to pacify some judges who get triggered at their name being on a marriage license for a gay couple.

They're also abolishing the requirement to have an officiated ceremony.
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Postby Arlenton » Sat May 25, 2019 5:04 pm

Seems like a good idea tbh.

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Postby Godular » Sat May 25, 2019 5:10 pm

Filed under: Doing the right thing for the wrong reason.
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Postby Tobleste » Sat May 25, 2019 5:33 pm

Shrillland wrote:Yes, really. From AL.com: https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/alabama-lawmakers-pass-bill-to-end-marriage-licenses.html

The Alabama House of Representatives gave final passage today to a bill that would end the issuance of marriage licenses by probate judges and instead have them record documents that would serve as the official records of marriage.

The bill goes to Gov. Kay Ivey, who could sign it into law.

The legislation came in response to the legalization of same-sex marriage by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2015. In Alabama, some probate judges stopped issuing marriage licenses four years ago because they did not want to sign same-sex marriage licenses.

Under the bill that passed today, couples wanting to get married would submit to the probate judge a form that includes an affidavit saying they meet the legal requirements of marriage and the probate judge would record that as the official marriage document.

The House passed the bill, by Sen. Greg Albritton, R-Range, by a vote of 67-26. It had already passed the Senate.

Probate judges in some counties are still not issuing marriage licenses. The current law does not require them to issue licenses, but says they “may.”

Under Albritton’s bill, probate judges would be required to accept and record the official marriage documents.

“It allows everybody in the state now to go to their local courthouse, or wherever, to accomplish this without traveling somewhere else, which is the intent of the law,” Albritton said.

The bill also would end the requirement that a marriage be “solemnized” by a minister or another person qualified to do so. Albritton said he thought it was appropriate to separate that religious component of marriage from the state law.


Among those voting against the bill today was Rep. Neil Rafferty, D-Birmingham, who is gay and married his partner of 15 years in December.

“I feel like while in and of itself it is not prejudiced, I feel like it was born out of prejudice though," Rafferty said. "That’s just kind of my ultimate feelings, why I ultimately couldn’t support the bill, even though in and of itself it does create a system that treats everyone equal before the state.”

Rafferty said he believes the bill would allow probate judges who are not issuing marriage licenses because of their personal beliefs to skirt their responsibilities.

“I think it’s far less about good governance and more about protecting folks that don’t want to do their jobs," Rafferty said.

Rep. Wes Allen, R-Troy, was among those voting for the bill today. Allen is the former probate judge in Pike County and stopped issuing marriage licenses in 2015.

“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman, as do a lot of Alabamians,” Allen said. He noted that about 80 percent of Alabama voters approved a constitutional amendment defining marriage as a unique relationship between a man and a woman in 2006.

“The probate judge has to sign the marriage license,” Allen said. "And effectively, by your signature going on that marriage license, basically in my opinion, you’re endorsing it. Because it’s your signature, just like you’re signing a check, you’re endorsing it. And that was one of the objections that I had back in 2015."

Albritton’s bill had passed the Senate in previous years but never made it through the House. The senator, who is an attorney, said he’s been working on the issue since 2015.

“I’m trying to find a path that’s legal and has the least effect with the greatest amount of benefit," Albritton said. "And I think I found that.”


So here's what happened. Ever since Obergfell v. Hodges, a lot of Alabama's probate judges have refused to sign marriage licences because they didn't want to endorse same-sex marriages. So, now the House and Senate have passed, and Ivey's expected to sign, this bill that does away with marriage licences once and for all. Instead, the two getting married would fill out a form that includes an affidavit that says that they fill all legal qualifications, and that would serve as the official record. It also says marriages wouldn't have to be "solemnised" by a minister or a justice of the peace to be considered valid.

What say you about this, NSG?

I think that, setting aside the obvious reasons of covering the judges' arses, this could cause more problems than some may think. When we look at how many of the legal benefits that come from marriage require a marriage licence as proof, and taking into consideration that, at least as far as I know, and let me know if I'm wrong about this, the Federal Government doesn't have any provision for anything besides a marriage licence for domestic marriages, this could lead to a lot of couples in Alabama being left in the lurch when it comes to things like Social Security, tax purposes, visitation and estate rights and the like.


Alabama records documents? I assumed they passed their history down the generations by training druids.
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