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Seasteading

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Seasteading

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu May 23, 2019 7:55 am

So, people have been trying for ages to work up the ability to build floating micronations on the high seas. With advances in technology this might soon be actually possible, so I figured we might as well discuss it.

On the one hand, while I find the idea interesting in that it allows for a more or less peaceful break with established powers I also find the idea somewhat concerning as well for that same reason. A floating community is surely not something to be obtained cheaply. A large portion of the focus also appears to be less based on practical living and more on exotic luxury, with little thoughts to the economic viability of such a community.

https://www.seasteading.org/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading
Last edited by The Emerald Legion on Thu May 23, 2019 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
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Christo Pax
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Postby Christo Pax » Thu May 23, 2019 7:59 am

Let's establish a libertarian country at sea!
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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu May 23, 2019 8:02 am

Christo Pax wrote:Let's establish a libertarian country at sea!


I feel like I've heard this before....

Andrew Ryan wrote:I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture, a city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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An Alan Smithee Nation
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New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu May 23, 2019 8:09 am

Oh please save us from these pirates/this tropical storm etc..
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Thu May 23, 2019 8:10 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:Oh please save us from these pirates/this tropical storm etc..

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Kragholm Free States
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Postby Kragholm Free States » Thu May 23, 2019 8:10 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Christo Pax wrote:Let's establish a libertarian country at sea!


I feel like I've heard this before....

Andrew Ryan wrote:I am Andrew Ryan, and I'm here to ask you a question. Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? 'No!' says the man in Washington, 'It belongs to the poor.' 'No!' says the man in the Vatican, 'It belongs to God.' 'No!' says the man in Moscow, 'It belongs to everyone.' I rejected those answers; instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture, a city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, Where the great would not be constrained by the small! And with the sweat of your brow, Rapture can become your city as well.


I mean, aside from everyone drinking magic slug juice that turned them into insane mutants, Rapture wasn't a bad idea.
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The Rich Port
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Thu May 23, 2019 8:13 am

Kragholm Free States wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
I feel like I've heard this before....



I mean, aside from everyone drinking magic slug juice that turned them into insane mutants, Rapture wasn't a bad idea.


The magic slug juice was just a plot point.

The whole point of Bioshock was to show what a joke Objectivism was.

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The Emerald Legion
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Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu May 23, 2019 8:25 am

In any case, another question. Would you, the posters of NSG choose to live on a seastead? Under what circumstances?
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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The Rich Port
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Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Thu May 23, 2019 8:28 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:In any case, another question. Would you, the posters of NSG choose to live on a seastead? Under what circumstances?


Is it even slightly better than living on land?
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO BURN.
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO LEARN.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

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LOVEWHOYOUARE~


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The Emerald Legion
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Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu May 23, 2019 8:30 am

The Rich Port wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:In any case, another question. Would you, the posters of NSG choose to live on a seastead? Under what circumstances?


Is it even slightly better than living on land?


So far as I can tell it's basically like living in an apartment complex that happens to be in the middle of the Briny deep.

The primary benefit comes from self determination.
Last edited by The Emerald Legion on Thu May 23, 2019 8:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35674
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Thu May 23, 2019 8:36 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Is it even slightly better than living on land?


So far as I can tell it's basically like living in an apartment complex that happens to be in the middle of the Briny deep.

The primary benefit comes from self determination.


That kinda reeks to me of under-estimating the logistics of living in international waters, i.e. in the middle of the ocean.

Self-determination means diddly squat when you have to sacrifice everything else for it.

It's one thing to sacrifice my freedom for comfort, it's another to squander both chasing a power pipe dream.

More than anybody, I'd love to live in one of these, but we can't be blinded by promise.

IMO, it'd be interesting if we supported government initiatives to colonize the ocean for living space.

Making them independent, on the other hand, means putting power in the hands of people that aren't vetted.

Say what you will about our current government, but they have to follow certain laws and those laws are enforced by the police.

What about hurricanes? What about piracy? What about international incidents? What about giant squid attacks?
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO BURN.
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO LEARN.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

Tracking | History | Factbook | Dharma
Economic Report | Regional Forum | Political Compass
CAPINTERN | OMSA | OZZY | PACT | APAC
Summary | Vanguard | The Book Of Sue
THE BILLION BIT BRONY
AHAHAHAHA PONY PONY PONY PONYYY


LOVEWHOYOUARE~


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An Alan Smithee Nation
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New York Times Democracy

Postby An Alan Smithee Nation » Thu May 23, 2019 8:40 am

So how do they plan on getting rid of their rubbish? Just tip it over the side?
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The Emerald Legion
Negotiator
 
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Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu May 23, 2019 8:44 am

An Alan Smithee Nation wrote:So how do they plan on getting rid of their rubbish? Just tip it over the side?


I feel like recycling would need to be more mandatory on such an endeavor given the costs of replacing things.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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Farnhamia
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Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Thu May 23, 2019 8:51 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:So, people have been trying for ages to work up the ability to build floating micronations on the high seas. With advances in technology this might soon be actually possible, so I figured we might as well discuss it.

On the one hand, while I find the idea interesting in that it allows for a more or less peaceful break with established powers I also find the idea somewhat concerning as well for that same reason. A floating community is surely not something to be obtained cheaply. A large portion of the focus also appears to be less based on practical living and more on exotic luxury, with little thoughts to the economic viability of such a community.

I think some more information about this "seasteading" thing you bring up, stranger. I happen to know that there's a Wiki article on it, there must be more on the interwebnets.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
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Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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The Emerald Legion
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Posts: 7167
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu May 23, 2019 8:53 am

Farnhamia wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:So, people have been trying for ages to work up the ability to build floating micronations on the high seas. With advances in technology this might soon be actually possible, so I figured we might as well discuss it.

On the one hand, while I find the idea interesting in that it allows for a more or less peaceful break with established powers I also find the idea somewhat concerning as well for that same reason. A floating community is surely not something to be obtained cheaply. A large portion of the focus also appears to be less based on practical living and more on exotic luxury, with little thoughts to the economic viability of such a community.

I think some more information about this "seasteading" thing you bring up, stranger. I happen to know that there's a Wiki article on it, there must be more on the interwebnets.


I figured it was fairly self explanatory but...

https://www.seasteading.org/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

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Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 101151
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Thu May 23, 2019 8:59 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:I think some more information about this "seasteading" thing you bring up, stranger. I happen to know that there's a Wiki article on it, there must be more on the interwebnets.


I figured it was fairly self explanatory but...

https://www.seasteading.org/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading

Self-explanatory? Never assume that here. Besides, it's polite to give people some info to go on, besides your opinion. That's not to say that your opinion isn't eminently valuable, of course, but this is NSG.

As for it being like living in an apartment block but with self-determination, what makes you say that? You'd still be part of a community. You wouldn't be a lone pioneer out on the wet and salty plains. I daresay, given the rather more precarious environment, you'd have more restrictions on your freedom than fewer.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Thu May 23, 2019 9:04 am

Farnhamia wrote:As for it being like living in an apartment block but with self-determination, what makes you say that? You'd still be part of a community. You wouldn't be a lone pioneer out on the wet and salty plains.

*Captain Nemo intensifies*
Last edited by Aclion on Thu May 23, 2019 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Thu May 23, 2019 9:06 am

Aclion wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:As for it being like living in an apartment block but with self-determination, what makes you say that? You'd still be part of a community. You wouldn't be a lone pioneer out on the wet and salty plains.

*Captain Nemo intensifies*

Nemo had a crew.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Thu May 23, 2019 9:08 am

Farnhamia wrote:
Aclion wrote:*Captain Nemo intensifies*

Nemo had a crew.

Eeeh, they were basically robotic though.
A free society rests on four boxes: The soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box.
XKI: Recruiter, TITO Knight
TEP: WA Executive Staff member
Forest: Cartographer
Oatland: Caesar, Cartographer

It is the citizen's duty to understand which box to use, and when.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Thu May 23, 2019 9:13 am

Aclion wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Nemo had a crew.

Eeeh, they were basically robotic though.


Yeah, I'm not sure I see the benefits of living out in the middle of the ocean surrounded by sycophants, basically.

Sounds more like people want to go live out in the ocean to avoid the responsibilities of society, or to rule in whatever way pleases them.

"Free" tyrannies.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO BURN.
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO LEARN.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

Tracking | History | Factbook | Dharma
Economic Report | Regional Forum | Political Compass
CAPINTERN | OMSA | OZZY | PACT | APAC
Summary | Vanguard | The Book Of Sue
THE BILLION BIT BRONY
AHAHAHAHA PONY PONY PONY PONYYY


LOVEWHOYOUARE~


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The Emerald Legion
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7167
Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Corporate Police State

Postby The Emerald Legion » Thu May 23, 2019 9:20 am

Farnhamia wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
I figured it was fairly self explanatory but...

https://www.seasteading.org/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seasteading

Self-explanatory? Never assume that here. Besides, it's polite to give people some info to go on, besides your opinion. That's not to say that your opinion isn't eminently valuable, of course, but this is NSG.

As for it being like living in an apartment block but with self-determination, what makes you say that? You'd still be part of a community. You wouldn't be a lone pioneer out on the wet and salty plains. I daresay, given the rather more precarious environment, you'd have more restrictions on your freedom than fewer.


Presumably however it would be a community you chose to join.
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
I frequently lapse into self parody, that isn't to say that I don't have extreme views, just that I occasionally go over the top for comedic effect.
Genivaria wrote:The Emerald Legion is NSG's personal Reaper.

The Drone Empire wrote:"Enlighten the willing, enslave the conquered, eradicate the defiant."
A typical Legionary strategy meeting.
The appropriate pronoun for me is It.
Philosophically Biophobic.

User avatar
Farnhamia
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 101151
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Thu May 23, 2019 9:30 am

Aclion wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Nemo had a crew.

Eeeh, they were basically robotic though.

No, M. Verne just didn't care to develop them as characters. Appropriately, no man is an island entire of itself. I blame Ralph Waldo Emerson and his self-reliance claptrap, which leads to unnecessary introspection, navel contemplation, Captain Ahab, and Internet Tough Guys. I point no fingers at you, of course. Even Thoreau, the famous pencil-maker, couldn't live in the woods without walking into Concord several times a week to collect the gossip.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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Farnhamia
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Posts: 101151
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Farnhamia » Thu May 23, 2019 9:31 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Self-explanatory? Never assume that here. Besides, it's polite to give people some info to go on, besides your opinion. That's not to say that your opinion isn't eminently valuable, of course, but this is NSG.

As for it being like living in an apartment block but with self-determination, what makes you say that? You'd still be part of a community. You wouldn't be a lone pioneer out on the wet and salty plains. I daresay, given the rather more precarious environment, you'd have more restrictions on your freedom than fewer.


Presumably however it would be a community you chose to join.

In the United States, you can live wherever you like, as long as you can pay the costs. You can choose to join or not join all sorts of communities.
Freedom ... or cake. ~ Ashmoria (RIP)
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
"Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." RIP Don Rickles
My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right. ~ Carl Schurz
<Sigh> NSG...where even the atheists are Augustinians. ~ The Archregimancy
Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
RIP Dyakovo

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The Rich Port
Post Czar
 
Posts: 35674
Founded: Jul 29, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The Rich Port » Thu May 23, 2019 9:33 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Self-explanatory? Never assume that here. Besides, it's polite to give people some info to go on, besides your opinion. That's not to say that your opinion isn't eminently valuable, of course, but this is NSG.

As for it being like living in an apartment block but with self-determination, what makes you say that? You'd still be part of a community. You wouldn't be a lone pioneer out on the wet and salty plains. I daresay, given the rather more precarious environment, you'd have more restrictions on your freedom than fewer.


Presumably however it would be a community you chose to join.


There's no such thing as completely voluntary communities. Not even families are voluntary; in fact, the whole point of families is that they're INVOLUNTARY societies, and tribal communities have their own issues of coercive power.

Human beings HAVE to interact out of pure necessity 99% of the time, unless you specifically separate yourself as an individual from society. That's what trading is. It's basic human sociology at work here.

Moving out into international waters means anybody has to respect your sovereignty. If anything, it's an invitation to chew on your ass, because you have no automatic alliance.

A legit fear of these legally grey areas is that it's where people that society no longer wants are going to be shipped out to.

In fact, pretty sure I made a joke thread once where I suggested moving homeless and poor people out into the Pacific Garbage Gyre, under the pretense that we tell them it's an island.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO BURN.
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO LEARN.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

Tracking | History | Factbook | Dharma
Economic Report | Regional Forum | Political Compass
CAPINTERN | OMSA | OZZY | PACT | APAC
Summary | Vanguard | The Book Of Sue
THE BILLION BIT BRONY
AHAHAHAHA PONY PONY PONY PONYYY


LOVEWHOYOUARE~


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Klorgia1
Envoy
 
Posts: 223
Founded: Aug 23, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Klorgia1 » Thu May 23, 2019 9:36 am

Just so we're clear, nations with a population of 12 and a boat aren't getting any UN seats. Good? Good.
News: This Sig Still Exists.

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