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Should Authoritarian Socialists be Pro Gun

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Soviet Tankistan
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Should Authoritarian Socialists be Pro Gun

Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:14 am

Guns are important to revolution and leftists as a whole. Many authoritarian socialists like guns and own them. I'm not saying that guns shouldn't be deregulated. I'm saying that authoritarian socialists should own guns and allow them. What do you think? Should they be pro guns.
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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Wed May 08, 2019 6:19 am

Soviet Tankistan wrote:Guns are important to revolution and leftists as a whole. Many authoritarian socialists like guns and own them. I'm not saying that guns shouldn't be deregulated. I'm saying that authoritarian socialists should own guns and allow them. What do you think? Should they be pro guns.

Probably. Pretty hard to start a worker based revolution if the workers aren’t armed, y’know?

Not too stoked about authoritarians stocking up on guns but hey, rights for people you don’t like and all that.

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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:21 am

Ors Might wrote:
Soviet Tankistan wrote:Guns are important to revolution and leftists as a whole. Many authoritarian socialists like guns and own them. I'm not saying that guns shouldn't be deregulated. I'm saying that authoritarian socialists should own guns and allow them. What do you think? Should they be pro guns.

Probably. Pretty hard to start a worker based revolution if the workers aren’t armed, y’know?

Not too stoked about authoritarians stocking up on guns but hey, rights for people you don’t like and all that.

Authoritarians already stock up on guns. I assume you are American? If so, you have a large and very armed right wing authoritarian party so arming their left wing equivalents shouldn’t be much of a concern.
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Postby Tetradimensional Overworld » Wed May 08, 2019 6:23 am

Pro-gun at first, and then anti-gun to keep capitalists from remaking the Old Order.
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Postby Ifreann » Wed May 08, 2019 6:25 am

Shovel AKs for everyone!
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Postby Ors Might » Wed May 08, 2019 6:25 am

Soviet Tankistan wrote:
Ors Might wrote:Probably. Pretty hard to start a worker based revolution if the workers aren’t armed, y’know?

Not too stoked about authoritarians stocking up on guns but hey, rights for people you don’t like and all that.

Authoritarians already stock up on guns. I assume you are American? If so, you have a large and very armed right wing authoritarian party so arming their left wing equivalents shouldn’t be much of a concern.

It’s less of a concern, per se, so much as the realization that the imminent conflict will be a violent cavalcade of clown fuckery.

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Soviet Tankistan
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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:28 am

Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:Pro-gun at first, and then anti-gun to keep capitalists from remaking the Old Order.

That doesn’t make sense. A system where guns are regulated as to keep them out of the hands of terrorists is needed. But the only reason to have a revolution is to serve the people. If the people are dissatisfied enough they are able to overthrow the government, they shouldn’t have another uprising from the ground up. If the capitalists are strong enough to fight back and the workers too weak, then you have betrayed the revolution you were a part of. Leaders like Stalin could have easily had guns for the average person because he was very popular and well liked. I think that was more of an issue that guns weren’t ever allowed in most countries.
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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:29 am

Ifreann wrote:Shovel AKs for everyone!

The shovels and AKs are separate.
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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:30 am

Ors Might wrote:
Soviet Tankistan wrote:Authoritarians already stock up on guns. I assume you are American? If so, you have a large and very armed right wing authoritarian party so arming their left wing equivalents shouldn’t be much of a concern.

It’s less of a concern, per se, so much as the realization that the imminent conflict will be a violent cavalcade of clown fuckery.

It always is. When I talk about a socialist revolution, I mean it as comparable to the guns are to be used against a totalitarian government only. It hasn’t been bad enough yet.
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Postby Tetradimensional Overworld » Wed May 08, 2019 6:31 am

Soviet Tankistan wrote:
Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:Pro-gun at first, and then anti-gun to keep capitalists from remaking the Old Order.

That doesn’t make sense. A system where guns are regulated as to keep them out of the hands of terrorists is needed. But the only reason to have a revolution is to serve the people. If the people are dissatisfied enough they are able to overthrow the government, they shouldn’t have another uprising from the ground up. If the capitalists are strong enough to fight back and the workers too weak, then you have betrayed the revolution you were a part of. Leaders like Stalin could have easily had guns for the average person because he was very popular and well liked. I think that was more of an issue that guns weren’t ever allowed in most countries.

If Stalin was pro-gun, he could've pushed the Nazis out from the U.S.S.R. more easily.
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Postby Ifreann » Wed May 08, 2019 6:31 am

Soviet Tankistan wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Shovel AKs for everyone!

The shovels and AKs are separate.

Hello, KGB? I found an enemy of the workers.
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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:32 am

Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:
Soviet Tankistan wrote:That doesn’t make sense. A system where guns are regulated as to keep them out of the hands of terrorists is needed. But the only reason to have a revolution is to serve the people. If the people are dissatisfied enough they are able to overthrow the government, they shouldn’t have another uprising from the ground up. If the capitalists are strong enough to fight back and the workers too weak, then you have betrayed the revolution you were a part of. Leaders like Stalin could have easily had guns for the average person because he was very popular and well liked. I think that was more of an issue that guns weren’t ever allowed in most countries.

If Stalin was pro-gun, he could've pushed the Nazis out from the U.S.S.R. more easily.

Yes. The Nazis had easier victories at first. They should have given civilians a little training and let them fight. A few fought, but with training they may have been more confident.
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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:33 am

Ifreann wrote:
Soviet Tankistan wrote:The shovels and AKs are separate.

Hello, KGB? I found an enemy of the workers.

What? Putting a shovel on an AK is stupid.
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Postby Ifreann » Wed May 08, 2019 6:33 am

Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:
Soviet Tankistan wrote:That doesn’t make sense. A system where guns are regulated as to keep them out of the hands of terrorists is needed. But the only reason to have a revolution is to serve the people. If the people are dissatisfied enough they are able to overthrow the government, they shouldn’t have another uprising from the ground up. If the capitalists are strong enough to fight back and the workers too weak, then you have betrayed the revolution you were a part of. Leaders like Stalin could have easily had guns for the average person because he was very popular and well liked. I think that was more of an issue that guns weren’t ever allowed in most countries.

If Stalin was pro-gun, he could've pushed the Nazis out from the U.S.S.R. more easily.

Yes, because procuring arms for the Red Army was simply a matter of Stalin's personal opinion on guns. If he had wanted guns then they would have just appeared.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
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With his kiss
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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Wed May 08, 2019 6:34 am

Soviet Tankistan wrote:
Ors Might wrote:It’s less of a concern, per se, so much as the realization that the imminent conflict will be a violent cavalcade of clown fuckery.

It always is. When I talk about a socialist revolution, I mean it as comparable to the guns are to be used against a totalitarian government only. It hasn’t been bad enough yet.

Eh. The weakness of most revolutionary types is their tendency to focus more on the violent aspect of the revolution rather than the cultural one. It just comes as a given to most of them that the people will eventually see things their way, starting the revolt.

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Postby Ifreann » Wed May 08, 2019 6:35 am

Soviet Tankistan wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Hello, KGB? I found an enemy of the workers.

What? Putting a shovel on an AK is stupid.

You don't put a shovel on an AK, you make the AK from a shovel.
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
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With his kiss
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed May 08, 2019 6:35 am

Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:Pro-gun at first, and then anti-gun to keep capitalists from remaking the Old Order.

That doesn't make much sense, since arming the proletariat and keeping them armed should prevent such an occurrence anyway...
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:35 am

Ifreann wrote:
Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:If Stalin was pro-gun, he could've pushed the Nazis out from the U.S.S.R. more easily.

Yes, because procuring arms for the Red Army was simply a matter of Stalin's personal opinion on guns. If he had wanted guns then they would have just appeared.

If the Soviets were better armed, the Nazis would be slowed and annoyed by them fighting until the army came.
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Ors Might
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Postby Ors Might » Wed May 08, 2019 6:35 am

Ifreann wrote:
Tetradimensional Overworld wrote:If Stalin was pro-gun, he could've pushed the Nazis out from the U.S.S.R. more easily.

Yes, because procuring arms for the Red Army was simply a matter of Stalin's personal opinion on guns. If he had wanted guns then they would have just appeared.

Are you implying that Comrade Stalin didn’t shit AKs and spit ammunition?

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Postby North German Realm » Wed May 08, 2019 6:35 am

The main view is that of-bloody-fucking-course socialists in general should be pro-gun. A core part of socialism as an umbrella of ideologies (especially when you inch towards Marxian or Krotopkin-esque Communism) is that the default state of workers while under a non-socialist system is necessarily "oppressed and suppressed". Marxian Communism in particular is pretty open about the "if you disarm the workers, you're leaving them at the hands of the Capitalist Class, and that's -if you still haven't got the hint- bad."

Now, Authoritarian Socialists in particular, since they -decidedly, as they are authoritarian- also support the suppression of workers, but by the state rather than by their private employers. So, in their particular case, they are totally pro gun as long as they aren't in charge, at which point guns should not be found at the hands of the workers, but the State's Soldiers. Obviously, exceptions do apply (Socialist Albania had a uniquely pro-gun approach to the "should workers own guns under a socialist state?" question despite its authoritarianism)
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Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Wed May 08, 2019 6:36 am

A better question would be; should authoritarian socialists be pro-authoritarianism? The answer is no.
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Soviet Tankistan
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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:A better question would be; should authoritarian socialists be pro-authoritarianism? The answer is no.

Should liberals be liberals? The answer is no.
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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Wed May 08, 2019 6:37 am

Soviet Tankistan wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Hello, KGB? I found an enemy of the workers.

What? Putting a shovel on an AK is stupid.

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Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed May 08, 2019 6:39 am

Ors Might wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Yes, because procuring arms for the Red Army was simply a matter of Stalin's personal opinion on guns. If he had wanted guns then they would have just appeared.

Are you implying that Comrade Stalin didn’t shit AKs and spit ammunition?

Comrade Stalin consumed only vodka, and freed from the inefficiencies of capitalism, he did not excrete.
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Soviet Tankistan
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Postby Soviet Tankistan » Wed May 08, 2019 6:40 am

North German Realm wrote:The main view is that of-bloody-fucking-course socialists in general should be pro-gun. A core part of socialism as an umbrella of ideologies (especially when you inch towards Marxian or Krotopkin-esque Communism) is that the default state of workers while under a non-socialist system is necessarily "oppressed and suppressed". Marxian Communism in particular is pretty open about the "if you disarm the workers, you're leaving them at the hands of the Capitalist Class, and that's -if you still haven't got the hint- bad."

Now, Authoritarian Socialists in particular, since they -decidedly, as they are authoritarian- also support the suppression of workers, but by the state rather than by their private employers. So, in their particular case, they are totally pro gun as long as they aren't in charge, at which point guns should not be found at the hands of the workers, but the State's Soldiers. Obviously, exceptions do apply (Socialist Albania had a uniquely pro-gun approach to the "should workers own guns under a socialist state?" question despite its authoritarianism)

I don’t know much about Albania. Was this under Hoxha? But authoritarian socialists can be pro gun if they are in charge. In the case of the USSR’s civil war, it was the well armed few versus the unarmed masses. Given Soviet supporters gun would help beat out the Whites instead of waiting for the Red Army.
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