Are School Dress Codes too Restrictive?

[Skyhooked]

Again what mass produced Chinese slave made crap you wear just like millions others is not a good measure of self expression at all.

Gonna say this: Not everyone is a good and skilled tailor. Besides, one gets to choose something more comfortable, than uniforms, that are just here, wihtout any consideration for comfort and climate. And here is a revelation: They come from China too.

Uniforms do not repress true individuality at all. They encourages real, not purely superficial and materialistic individuality.

Other outfits don't repress it either. As for encouraging... I doubt that. Uniforms can give some psychological imprint too, in other direction.

And unless you can prove another way can actually do better, at a lower cost, and cannot coexist with uniforms saying “another way may exist” is a bad argument.

Any way, any way... How about at least trying to make all those school subjects at least remotely interesting? Yeah, cost probably gonna be a lil' bit higher, but this will improve science literacy of the population too, get ya' better specialists, and... many other awesome thingies. Utopian, but worth tryin' anyway. Better than givin' another reason for kids and teens to dislike school.

I don't think, we gonna convinve eachother...

[Novus America]

Again what mass produced Chinese slave made crap you wear just like millions others is not a good measure of self expression at all.

Gonna say this: Not everyone is a good and skilled tailor. Besides, one gets to choose something more comfortable, than uniforms, that are just here, wihtout any consideration for comfort and climate. And here is a revelation: They come from China too.

Uniforms do not repress true individuality at all. They encourages real, not purely superficial and materialistic individuality.

Other outfits don't repress it either. As for encouraging... I doubt that. Uniforms can give some psychological imprint too, in other direction.

And unless you can prove another way can actually do better, at a lower cost, and cannot coexist with uniforms saying “another way may exist” is a bad argument.

Any way, any way... How about at least trying to make all those school subjects at least remotely interesting? Yeah, cost probably gonna be a lil' bit higher, but this will improve science literacy of the population too, get ya' better specialists, and... many other awesome thingies. Utopian, but worth tryin' anyway. Better than givin' another reason for kids and teens to dislike school.

I don't think, we gonna convinve eachother...

Sure not everyone is a skilled tailor.
Point remains massed produced clothes are a poor indicator of individuality.
Sure they do not repress it much really but neither do uniforms.

And we can make better school uniforms. Mandate they be American made and make them with a consideration for comfort.

But the fact that many school uniforms are made in China is irrelevant to my argument because I never claimed uniforms were self expression. They are not.
Clothes in general are a poor method of self expression so the self expression argument does not work with me.

Sure we can try making school more interesting. Good idea.
But that does not preclude having uniforms.

We could have more interesting subjects AND uniforms.

And a cheap, practical solution beats a purely hypothetical one.

[NERVUN]

After 14 years with them, I feel I can reasonably say that school uniforms do the same thing as uniforms for the military. They: Provide identification, provide appropriate clothing for the task at hand, promote a feeling of togetherness.

They do not: Erase individuality, prevent bulling.

They MAY: Ease a teacher's job as they don't have to make judgements regarding if something is appropriate or not, or political/religious or not. Be cheaper than regular clothing.

But the last two depends a great deal on various factors.

IIRC stuff you've said about your life on here, you have lived in Japan for a long time and are/were a teacher there? I can see how that would influence your perspective.

I do think uniforms erase individuality, especially because one's childhood and teens are the years when one most wants to experiment with self-expression. For me, choosing what to wear as a teen really helped me discover things about myself. For awhile I had the "skater" look, it started out as just conformity to peer pressure because skate shoes were in (though I was the only one who actually skated), but later on I realized that casual, baggy clothes were a true reflection of the type of person I am.

I feel sorry for you if you feel that your clothing is the major thing that defines you.

But you're right, I have lived in Japan for many years now, which is why I note that regardless of the stereotype of Japan and Japanese culture, of the thousands of kids I've taught, they've all been able to express themselves, their individuality, their tastes, whatnot even while wearing a uniform. It doesn't change anything.

[NERVUN]

After 14 years with them, I feel I can reasonably say that school uniforms do the same thing as uniforms for the military. They: Provide identification, provide appropriate clothing for the task at hand, promote a feeling of togetherness.

They do not: Erase individuality, prevent bulling.

They MAY: Ease a teacher's job as they don't have to make judgements regarding if something is appropriate or not, or political/religious or not. Be cheaper than regular clothing.

But the last two depends a great deal on various factors.

I'll address each point individually:
(1) Provide identification: Sure, can't disagree with that, unless it's the case of my second school which came up with the idea of a uniform with no school logos.

Even without the logo, I can ID my kids due to the color of the uniform. Hell, thanks to the color coding, I can ID what grade s/he belongs to.

(2) Provide appropriate clothing for the task at hand: Not necessarily. They often provide a one-size-fits-all approach, where said one size (not literal obviously) might not even fit most. See the schools which demand full uniform compliance when it is ridiculously warm/hot outside, the ones who insist on 'no outside coats' when the heating has gone etc. Teachers are often rather anal about it.

See again, the idea of science labs being scrubbed due to someone deciding that short shorts and a tank top are lab appropriate.

(3) I'm not seing how 'a feeling of togetherness' in a school atmosphere honestly.

I believe you missed a verb or other words here, please explain further.

(4) They do not erase individuality: I mean they kind of do, they prevent students from showing things they wish to show through their clothing, and more and more often through hairstyles etc. I'm sure it might also have some effects on the ability of students to make friends as well, if you can see it might be quite useful to be able to grasp shared interests through clothing style.

I'm sorry, really? You think that my students don't have friends because they can't tell by looking at each other what they're interested in? Bull. They decorate their bags. They decorate their pencil cases. They chose which other bag to bring. They choose their lunch mats. There's a thousand and one different things my students do to show off what they are into and who they are... And if all that fails... they talk to each other!

(6) That teachers job is made very very easy if they don't have to make that call in the first place. All is appropriate, if it is religious or political so what?

So wearing a 'Fuck the Niggers' shirt would be acceptable in a school? Really now?

I think not.

(7) They're not cheaper.

Yes, they can be. Again, depending on various factors. For example, the average cost of school clothing in the US is approx $300 per child per year. My students' uniform set is around $700 for the whole shebang. Yes, it's up front, but it's one and done for three years. So in the end, it runs slightly cheaper. Again though, since each area makes it own decision on who, what, and where, that particular point really comes down to the individual school's situation.

[New haven america]

IIRC stuff you've said about your life on here, you have lived in Japan for a long time and are/were a teacher there? I can see how that would influence your perspective.

I do think uniforms erase individuality, especially because one's childhood and teens are the years when one most wants to experiment with self-expression. For me, choosing what to wear as a teen really helped me discover things about myself. For awhile I had the "skater" look, it started out as just conformity to peer pressure because skate shoes were in (though I was the only one who actually skated), but later on I realized that casual, baggy clothes were a true reflection of the type of person I am.

I feel sorry for you if you feel that your clothing is the major thing that defines you.

But you're right, I have lived in Japan for many years now, which is why I note that regardless of the stereotype of Japan and Japanese culture, of the thousands of kids I've taught, they've all been able to express themselves, their individuality, their tastes, whatnot even while wearing a uniform. It doesn't change anything.

Yeah, cause it's not like clothing and fashion have ever been a major outlet for self expression before...

[NERVUN]

I feel sorry for you if you feel that your clothing is the major thing that defines you.

But you're right, I have lived in Japan for many years now, which is why I note that regardless of the stereotype of Japan and Japanese culture, of the thousands of kids I've taught, they've all been able to express themselves, their individuality, their tastes, whatnot even while wearing a uniform. It doesn't change anything.

Yeah, cause it's not like clothing and fashion have ever been a major outlet for self expression before...

Massive difference between self expression and definition... just saying.

And yes, I do view it as sad if the ONLY way, or the major way, you have to define yourself is through your dress.

[New haven america]

Yeah, cause it's not like clothing and fashion have ever been a major outlet for self expression before...

Massive difference between self expression and definition... just saying.

And yes, I do view it as sad if the ONLY way, or the major way, you have to define yourself is through your dress.

Except they didn't really say it was a way to define themselves, they said it reflected who are though or allowed them to better express yourself.

[Socialist Workers Combine]

Comrade NHA is correct, I have expressed myself through clothing on occasion, but not defined myself through it. You must all give up your toxic masculinity and prejudice against self-adornment.

[NERVUN]

Massive difference between self expression and definition... just saying.

And yes, I do view it as sad if the ONLY way, or the major way, you have to define yourself is through your dress.

Except they didn't really say it was a way to define themselves, they said it reflected who are though or allowed them to better express yourself.

Point still stands. Saying that 'I discovered I was more a casual clothes type of person' seems to be calling into question how they are defining, not just expressing, themselves. It's also worth noting that school hours are not long, nor the majority of the time for students. Nor is clothing the only way to self express.

And, of course, finally, not wearing a certain type of clothing does nothing for your individuality. Which was the whole point in the first place. I dislike my work clothing of slacks, collared shirt, and tie (Japan being a bit more formal), and it feels good to change into t-shirts and jeans at the end of the day. And, certainly, I attempt to have my own style and taste (or lack thereof) in my off-duty hours.

But I would dare say that my individuality is not effected when I wear a tie like every other male teacher in the school.

[Socialist Workers Combine]

Point still stands. Saying that 'I discovered I was more a casual clothes type of person' seems to be calling into question how they are defining, not just expressing, themselves.

This clearly must be forbidden. People must not be allowed to explore themselves.