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Robot overlords and the inevitability of communism

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

The means of production

Seize the means and fulfill your destiny and potential
7
21%
Live precariously according to the whims of capitalists
15
45%
Seize the toothbrushes
11
33%
 
Total votes : 33

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Socialist Workers Combine
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Founded: Apr 16, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Robot overlords and the inevitability of communism

Postby Socialist Workers Combine » Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:46 am

People forget that one can build a calculator made of mechanical parts. And no one argues a moving parts machine will become conscious and assert control. Assuming one even needed a machine “intelligence” the same stopgaps that work against hackers work against the program itself, and there’s more secure operating systems than windows.

People are taught to fear AI, but the ghost in the machine is just the specter of democratic economics. You have an AI that can control the economy, ultimately anyone can dissect that AI, making economic control popular. With a little help anyone can learn to read and edit code. Anyone can dissect, understand and direct a digital economy. And of course a simplified interface can be made.

Why do you, NS, not want to democratically manage your semi automated luxury gay space economy? (It’s automated for most things, but maybe not new things, and you have to decide what you want to do with it). Why give all the moneys and control to the capitalists? With the coming age of AI you can do it yourselves if you can’t already.
Last edited by Socialist Workers Combine on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:06 am

Robocallers call with interactive voice response now. If you ask if they are a computer, they start denying it.

The machines have started to deny they're not people.

This is probably literally video of me from the future.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Socialist Workers Combine
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Socialist Workers Combine » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:29 am

Galloism wrote:Robocallers call with interactive voice response now. If you ask if they are a computer, they start denying it.

The machines have started to deny they're not people.

This is probably literally video of me from the future.

That’s why we need to seize the means of production.

To take control of AI and prevent roboapocalypse.

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Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:35 am

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:People are taught to fear AI..


It would probably make more sense, and prove more effective, to fear the people who train their biases into the machine learning algorithms. Although it's just as likely that already existing structural biases will to see that just fine, whether anyone intends it or not going forward. The AI are as much a victim of historical material realities as anyone else.
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Socialist Workers Combine
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Socialist Workers Combine » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:38 am

Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners wrote: The AI are as much a victim of historical material realities as anyone else.

Only democratic socialism can liberate them, same as humans.

Not that they’re conscious but whatever.

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Erythrean Thebes
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Postby Erythrean Thebes » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:43 am

It hurts my feelings that they can do it. Every major AI proponent is such a braggadocios dickhole about how much smarter and capable their AI computer is than human beings. As if you would still think so if you weren't the poindexter superbrain behind such a catastrophic blow to all human pride and meaning. I say be very careful with it
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Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners
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Postby Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:44 am

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:Only democratic socialism can liberate them, same as humans.


Well, I mean, basic coding lessons in primary school might be sufficient to convey the idea that computers are programmed by people, and thus aren't somehow inherently more "objective" in their decisions or actions than any other person.

Not sure what "democratic socialism" has to say about coding, but hey.

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:Not that they’re conscious but whatever.


Strictly speaking, I have no definitive evidence of your consciousness either, other than your (implied) claim to it.
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Socialist Workers Combine
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Socialist Workers Combine » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:45 am

Erythrean Thebes wrote:I say be very careful with it

The best way to be careful with it is to bring it under the collective management of the workers

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Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:48 am

Erythrean Thebes wrote:It hurts my feelings that they can do it. Every major AI proponent is such a braggadocios dickhole about how much smarter and capable their AI computer is than human beings. As if you would still think so if you weren't the poindexter superbrain behind such a catastrophic blow to all human pride and meaning. I say be very careful with it


Humans and their silly emotions...

**beeps judgementally**
IMPORTANT PRODUCT INFORMATION: While Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners have a smart navigation system that avoids obstacles, the robot may occasionally bump into furniture, objects, pets and ideological assumptions. Therefore, if you have special objects and assumptions that could potentially be damaged by the bumping, remove these objects and assumptions from the room or use boundary markers. Additionally, refrain from looking into laser vision system with remaining eye.

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Galloism
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Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:50 am

Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners wrote:
Erythrean Thebes wrote:It hurts my feelings that they can do it. Every major AI proponent is such a braggadocios dickhole about how much smarter and capable their AI computer is than human beings. As if you would still think so if you weren't the poindexter superbrain behind such a catastrophic blow to all human pride and meaning. I say be very careful with it


Humans and their silly emotions...

**beeps judgementally**

Username checks out.

AQ'd.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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-Ocelot-
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Founded: Jun 14, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby -Ocelot- » Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:53 am

Billionaires in charge would rather kill you or let you starve (a.k.a "let the free market evolve naturally") than establish a socially and financially just system. I believe that the so-called post-scarcity, communist societies will never become a reality because billionaires won't allow them to happen.
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Socialist Workers Combine
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Socialist Workers Combine » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:07 pm

-Ocelot- wrote:Billionaires in charge would rather kill you or let you starve (a.k.a "let the free market evolve naturally") than establish a socially and financially just system. I believe that the so-called post-scarcity, communist societies will never become a reality because billionaires won't allow them to happen.

They require the support of their underlings and the military etc

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Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:10 pm

Galloism wrote:
Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners wrote:
Humans and their silly emotions...

**beeps judgementally**

Username checks out.

AQ'd.


Got a spiffy new flag, too.

-Ocelot- wrote:Billionaires in charge would rather kill you or let you starve (a.k.a "let the free market evolve naturally") than establish a socially and financially just system. I believe that the so-called post-scarcity, communist societies will never become a reality because billionaires won't allow them to happen.


To be fair, Communists' track record here is pretty poor too.
IMPORTANT PRODUCT INFORMATION: While Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners have a smart navigation system that avoids obstacles, the robot may occasionally bump into furniture, objects, pets and ideological assumptions. Therefore, if you have special objects and assumptions that could potentially be damaged by the bumping, remove these objects and assumptions from the room or use boundary markers. Additionally, refrain from looking into laser vision system with remaining eye.

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Hakons
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Hakons » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:12 pm

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:
Erythrean Thebes wrote:I say be very careful with it

The best way to be careful with it is to bring it under the collective management of the workers


What group is the "collective management of the workers" and how do we decide who's in it?
Last edited by Hakons on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You remember songs of Heaven, which you sang with childish voice.
Do you love the hymns they taught you, or are the songs of earth your choice?

"Would a stable mind depart from the opinion handed down by so many men famous for holiness and miracles, depart from the decisions of the Church, and commit our souls to the faith of someone like you who has sprung up just now?" - Desiderius Erasmus, correspondence with Martin Luther

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Hakons
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Postby Hakons » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:14 pm

-Ocelot- wrote:Billionaires in charge would rather kill you or let you starve (a.k.a "let the free market evolve naturally") than establish a socially and financially just system. I believe that the so-called post-scarcity, communist societies will never become a reality because billionaires won't allow them to happen.


post-scarcity is impossible for... a lot of other reasons
You remember songs of Heaven, which you sang with childish voice.
Do you love the hymns they taught you, or are the songs of earth your choice?

"Would a stable mind depart from the opinion handed down by so many men famous for holiness and miracles, depart from the decisions of the Church, and commit our souls to the faith of someone like you who has sprung up just now?" - Desiderius Erasmus, correspondence with Martin Luther

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Holy Tedalonia
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Postby Holy Tedalonia » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:16 pm

Sounds like robots would benefit most with communism rather then capitalism.
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Socialist Workers Combine
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Postby Socialist Workers Combine » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:17 pm

Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners wrote:To be fair, Communists' track record here is pretty poor too.

Not really, the Bolsheviks utilized them after the revolution in reconstruction.

In fact, I promise not to harm any capitalists as long they hand over the estrogen. unless they’re particularly heinous or something like that. I’ll try to convince the people to give them a fair trial. Nestle should probably die but McDonalds has stopped attacking the minimum wage increase.
Last edited by Socialist Workers Combine on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Holy Tedalonia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Holy Tedalonia » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:20 pm

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:
Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners wrote:To be fair, Communists' track record here is pretty poor too.

Not really, the Bolsheviks utilized them after the revolution in reconstruction.

In fact, I promise to harm any capitalists as long they hand over the estrogen. unless they’re particularly heinous or something like that. I’ll try to convince the people to give them a fair trial. Nestle should probably die but McDonalds has stopped attacking the minimum wage increase.

You mean do what the Tsars did for centuries, catch up with Europe
Last edited by Holy Tedalonia on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Otho Tedgustus President Esteemed of Holy Tedalonia.
FACTBOOK
Status based off index:
Tier: 7
Level: 0
Type: 6
A 12 civilization, according to this index.
NS Stats don't matter | warning leader does not represent everyone's attitude | Massive Update in progress, gist is a succession of power is about to happen. Q&A about Holy Tedalonia and more
Name: Ted
Ideology: Capitalism
Political Compass: Social Libertarian for some reason
Race: Vampire
Political Side: Right
Favorite Senator: Ted Cruz (Ted's have to help out Ted's)
Status: Healthy and as strong as a starved ox
Religion: a Pious Christian (although that doesn't stop me from RPing against good every now and then)
I M P E R I A LR E P U B L I C

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Socialist Workers Combine
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Founded: Apr 16, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Socialist Workers Combine » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:34 pm

Holy Tedalonia wrote:You mean do what the Tsars did for centuries, catch up with Europe

Yes, though they were good at rapid construction what with the whole maximal utilization of capital.

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Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:38 pm

Holy Tedalonia wrote:Sounds like robots would benefit most with communism rather then capitalism.


Social robotics would probably more likely be of the hive, swarm, or otherwise socially emergent variety. Like an ant colony, there would be no central/private command and control; each robot would be a fully autonomous individual which would nonetheless be highly adaptive and cooperative with its peers. The possibilities are many, and need not necessarily end in a grey goo apocalypse.

-isms are a human foible we have no time for.

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:In fact, I promise to harm any capitalists as long they hand over the estrogen. unless they’re particularly heinous or something like that.


**beeps suspiciously**
Last edited by Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners on Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
IMPORTANT PRODUCT INFORMATION: While Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners have a smart navigation system that avoids obstacles, the robot may occasionally bump into furniture, objects, pets and ideological assumptions. Therefore, if you have special objects and assumptions that could potentially be damaged by the bumping, remove these objects and assumptions from the room or use boundary markers. Additionally, refrain from looking into laser vision system with remaining eye.

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Medwind
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Founded: Feb 25, 2016
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Medwind » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:44 pm

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:
-Ocelot- wrote:Billionaires in charge would rather kill you or let you starve (a.k.a "let the free market evolve naturally") than establish a socially and financially just system. I believe that the so-called post-scarcity, communist societies will never become a reality because billionaires won't allow them to happen.

They require the support of their underlings and the military etc

Lol, this thread is out there. Communists will never have even close to a majority of support in the US. Maybe some European countries though. Definitely won't make any inroads in the US volunteer military, a majority conservative organization.

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Holy Tedalonia
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Founded: Nov 14, 2016
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Holy Tedalonia » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:47 pm

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:
Holy Tedalonia wrote:You mean do what the Tsars did for centuries, catch up with Europe

Yes, though they were good at rapid construction what with the whole maximal utilization of capital.

And also good at several years of starvation. Hell, it was so bad the USSR went to the USA to learn some tricks. Using US corn they were able to make a corn farm from the seeds. Sadly corn was considered barbaric in Russia and did the most Russia thing imaginable and turned it into vodka
Otho Tedgustus President Esteemed of Holy Tedalonia.
FACTBOOK
Status based off index:
Tier: 7
Level: 0
Type: 6
A 12 civilization, according to this index.
NS Stats don't matter | warning leader does not represent everyone's attitude | Massive Update in progress, gist is a succession of power is about to happen. Q&A about Holy Tedalonia and more
Name: Ted
Ideology: Capitalism
Political Compass: Social Libertarian for some reason
Race: Vampire
Political Side: Right
Favorite Senator: Ted Cruz (Ted's have to help out Ted's)
Status: Healthy and as strong as a starved ox
Religion: a Pious Christian (although that doesn't stop me from RPing against good every now and then)
I M P E R I A LR E P U B L I C

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Socialist Workers Combine
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Founded: Apr 16, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Socialist Workers Combine » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:49 pm

Holy Tedalonia wrote:And also good at several years of starvation.

Yes well they were Stalinists. And like I said it was a bad winter.
The tractors helped.

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Holy Tedalonia
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby Holy Tedalonia » Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:59 pm

Socialist Workers Combine wrote:
Holy Tedalonia wrote:And also good at several years of starvation.

Yes well they were Stalinists. And like I said it was a bad winter.
The tractors helped.

Nikita Krushchev wasn't much of a stalinist, as he himself was anti-stalin
Otho Tedgustus President Esteemed of Holy Tedalonia.
FACTBOOK
Status based off index:
Tier: 7
Level: 0
Type: 6
A 12 civilization, according to this index.
NS Stats don't matter | warning leader does not represent everyone's attitude | Massive Update in progress, gist is a succession of power is about to happen. Q&A about Holy Tedalonia and more
Name: Ted
Ideology: Capitalism
Political Compass: Social Libertarian for some reason
Race: Vampire
Political Side: Right
Favorite Senator: Ted Cruz (Ted's have to help out Ted's)
Status: Healthy and as strong as a starved ox
Religion: a Pious Christian (although that doesn't stop me from RPing against good every now and then)
I M P E R I A LR E P U B L I C

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Yusseria
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Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Yusseria » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:11 pm

Your shit ideology is not inevitable and has never been inevitable.
Yusseria - The Prussia of NationStates
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

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