NATION

PASSWORD

Teach Thinking!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
User avatar
NERVUN
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 29116
Founded: Mar 24, 2005
Right-wing Utopia

Teach Thinking!

Postby NERVUN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:37 pm

Since we have yet another education topic that starts off with 'Schools don't teach people how to think!' bit, I'd like to ask the assembled wisdom of NSG just what the heck that means? It comes up every single education thread. I've been teaching for 14 years and I've yet to see someone really lay out how a teacher is supposed to teach kids how to think.

So, let me ask you, how DO you teach kids how to think? What is your proposal? Please provide concrete examples and not vague I'm a politician trying to get elected campaign slogans. What would a class look like? What would you cover? How do you measure if a kid is 'thinking'? And how do you square it with teaching various skills, including bedrock skills?

The issue I have with this battle cry is that

1. We don't need to teach kids how to think, they already KNOW how to think. They're very good at it. The problem is that we need to teach analytical skills, criticisms, critiques, taking things apart and putting them back together again. But, schools are also charged with doing so in a way that is measurable, and teaches the skills that the local community defines as being worthwhile. Liberal arts IS teaching people how to think. Science is teaching people how to think. That's what they're for, but for that to happen students do need a basic knowledge on what to go off of in order to do the above, and some of that is simply drill and kill. And, well, the same people who scream about teaching kids how to think are usually also screaming that schools aren't teaching life skills. Skills really are drill and kill. Balancing a checkbook doesn't require the scientific method. Hopefully. The other issue I have with this battle cry is that normally the people who are saying it also mean 'Teach them to think like ME.'

2. The second bit is getting them to use it. I can teach the skills of how to deconstruct a text, why it has meaning, etc. Doesn't mean that students will use it.

But perhaps I am wrong. So what does it mean and how do we do it?
To those who feel, life is a tragedy. To those who think, it's a comedy.
"Men, today you'll be issued small trees. Do what you can for the emperor's glory." -Daistallia 2104 on bonsai charges in WWII
Science may provide the means while religion provides the motivation but humanity and humanity alone provides the vehicle -DaWoad

One-Stop Rules Shop, read it, love it, live by it. Getting Help Mod email: nervun@nationstates.net NSG Glossary
Add 10,145 to post count from Jolt: I have it from an unimpeachable source, that Dark Side cookies look like the Death Star. The other ones look like butterflies, or bunnies, or something.-Grave_n_Idle

Proud Member of FMGADHPAC. Join today!

User avatar
Azlaake
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 173
Founded: Nov 27, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Azlaake » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:39 pm

Doesn't Literature Include "Critical Thinking"??????????????
This Nation Represents My Political Views (MOSTLY), So Suck It Republicans!!!
These are my political views
And my political compass
AZLAAKE Needs You
HOPE YOU LIKE CRANBERRIES
BERNIE (Or Tim Ryan) 2020
I Use NS Stats!! (Mostly, Anyways)
Imagine Scandinavian Ideologies, American Patriotism, Canadian Wilderness, And Tacos And Burgers Everywhere
PRO: Liberal Socialism, Democratic Socialism, Gun Restrictions, Leftist-ism, Democracy, Civil and Political Freedoms, Southpaw-ism, Bernie Sanders, Tim Ryan ,and Joe Biden
NEUTRAL: Medical Marijuana, Contraception, Leftist Authoritarianism
ANTI: Libertarianism, Conservatism, Abortion, Polygamy, Rightist-ism, Anarchy, Fascism, Northern Jackaia, Trump

User avatar
NERVUN
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 29116
Founded: Mar 24, 2005
Right-wing Utopia

Postby NERVUN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:40 pm

Azlaake wrote:Doesn't Literature Include "Critical Thinking"??????????????

That's the whole point of it, yes. But apparently it's not enough.
To those who feel, life is a tragedy. To those who think, it's a comedy.
"Men, today you'll be issued small trees. Do what you can for the emperor's glory." -Daistallia 2104 on bonsai charges in WWII
Science may provide the means while religion provides the motivation but humanity and humanity alone provides the vehicle -DaWoad

One-Stop Rules Shop, read it, love it, live by it. Getting Help Mod email: nervun@nationstates.net NSG Glossary
Add 10,145 to post count from Jolt: I have it from an unimpeachable source, that Dark Side cookies look like the Death Star. The other ones look like butterflies, or bunnies, or something.-Grave_n_Idle

Proud Member of FMGADHPAC. Join today!

User avatar
New haven america
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29742
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:41 pm

No.

Free thinkers are bad.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
The Black Party
Minister
 
Posts: 2462
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Black Party » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:42 pm

New haven america wrote:No.

Free thinkers are bad.

I second this.
The Sovereign Nation-State of The Black Party
"The Black Flag Will Rule Forever"
1919 - 1981

User avatar
Pope Joan
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19407
Founded: Mar 11, 2009
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Pope Joan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:03 pm

Azlaake wrote:Doesn't Literature Include "Critical Thinking"??????????????


Yes, that would seem to be what this topic is about.

Out college encouraged and rewarded critical thinking. We had tutorials and examples. I reposted work that demonstrated critical thinking. We stressed that first comes information, then knowledge, and finally wisdom. It is at that final stage that one sees critical thinking.

Social media is a negative force here; are students are conditioned to react instantly to key words and memes and click "I like that! I hate that!" as if this somehow demonstrated thought on their part.
"Life is difficult".

-M. Scott Peck

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2112
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Yusseria » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:51 pm

Why don't we teach kids how to pay bills, apply for jobs and student loans and file for their tax returns?

Very little of what we teach kids (at least in America) actually helps them deal with their eventual adulthood.
Anti-Communist, American Nationalist, National Syndicalist
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
NERVUN
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 29116
Founded: Mar 24, 2005
Right-wing Utopia

Postby NERVUN » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:01 pm

Yusseria wrote:Why don't we teach kids how to pay bills, apply for jobs and student loans and file for their tax returns?

Very little of what we teach kids (at least in America) actually helps them deal with their eventual adulthood.

Is that actually the job of a school?
To those who feel, life is a tragedy. To those who think, it's a comedy.
"Men, today you'll be issued small trees. Do what you can for the emperor's glory." -Daistallia 2104 on bonsai charges in WWII
Science may provide the means while religion provides the motivation but humanity and humanity alone provides the vehicle -DaWoad

One-Stop Rules Shop, read it, love it, live by it. Getting Help Mod email: nervun@nationstates.net NSG Glossary
Add 10,145 to post count from Jolt: I have it from an unimpeachable source, that Dark Side cookies look like the Death Star. The other ones look like butterflies, or bunnies, or something.-Grave_n_Idle

Proud Member of FMGADHPAC. Join today!

User avatar
New haven america
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29742
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:05 pm

NERVUN wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Why don't we teach kids how to pay bills, apply for jobs and student loans and file for their tax returns?

Very little of what we teach kids (at least in America) actually helps them deal with their eventual adulthood.

Is that actually the job of a school?

A lot of kids don't have parents or figures in their lie to teach them those things, so yes, school should also teach them that.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2112
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Yusseria » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:20 pm

NERVUN wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Why don't we teach kids how to pay bills, apply for jobs and student loans and file for their tax returns?

Very little of what we teach kids (at least in America) actually helps them deal with their eventual adulthood.

Is that actually the job of a school?

It should be. Many kids don't have parents or at least proper parental figures.

Oftentimes even those who have parents still don't learn that stuff.
Last edited by Yusseria on Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anti-Communist, American Nationalist, National Syndicalist
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Diplomat
 
Posts: 718
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:28 pm

I play solitaire and chess on my phone a lot to enhance my quick-thinking skills.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
The Black Party
Minister
 
Posts: 2462
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Black Party » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:30 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:I play solitaire and chess on my phone a lot to enhance my quick-thinking skills.

What's your chess.com account so that I can confirm this claim
The Sovereign Nation-State of The Black Party
"The Black Flag Will Rule Forever"
1919 - 1981

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Diplomat
 
Posts: 718
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:35 pm

The Black Party wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:I play solitaire and chess on my phone a lot to enhance my quick-thinking skills.

What's your chess.com account so that I can confirm this claim


I just use the iPhone app, unfortunately.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
The Black Party
Minister
 
Posts: 2462
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Black Party » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
The Black Party wrote:What's your chess.com account so that I can confirm this claim


I just use the iPhone app, unfortunately.

preposterous! Everyone knows making an account boosts your quick-thinking skills by at least 15%.
The Sovereign Nation-State of The Black Party
"The Black Flag Will Rule Forever"
1919 - 1981

User avatar
Valentine Z
Senator
 
Posts: 4401
Founded: Nov 08, 2015
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Valentine Z » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:43 pm

Yusseria wrote:Why don't we teach kids how to pay bills, apply for jobs and student loans and file for their tax returns?

Very little of what we teach kids (at least in America) actually helps them deal with their eventual adulthood.


I second that, and for us anyway, we have something a little similar to that - Principle of Accounts.

It's a Secondary School (Middle School equivalent) subject that we took in Secondary 3 and 4 in Singapore (around, err... Grade 9-10?).

Accounting is an information system based on generally accepted accounting principles. It involves the recording and processing of business transactions, and communicating the information to stakeholders. The accounting information is used to evaluate business performance and facilitate decision-making. What sets the accountancy profession apart is the responsibility to act in the public’s interest.

Principles of Accounts (syllabus code 7175) is designed to provide students with a meaningful basic introduction to financial accounting and to develop an appreciation of the discipline of accounting. It is grounded in preparing, communicating and using financial information, and appreciating the need for ethical conduct. The subject places emphasis on the understanding and application of accounting knowledge to develop lifelong skills and values that will be of value in the increasingly complex world of business.

This subject forms part of a broad-based education to equip students with strong fundamentals for future learning. It is offered as an elective subject at Secondary Three and examinable at the GCE Ordinary Level.

Source: SEAB (Singapore Examinations and Assessments Board)

So in a sense... we do have POA as a subject, but of course, it's optional, and you can always take Additional Mathematics (which is more on calculus, logarithms, and trigonometry). I guess you can sort of say that we covered the accounting/finance part well?
Last edited by Valentine Z on Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Character Highlight: Celine Amelia Pinky, a woman that got into a deep end and became a ghost from a supernatural accident!
If you are reading my sig, I want you to have the best day ever ! You are worth it, do not let anyone get you down !
Glory to De Sierlijke und Verwonderlijk Feline Utopia et its Heerlijk Autonomous Opperheerschappij ov Valentine Z !
• About me.
• You thought I'm a She. But it is I, a dude!
• Eat my freaking tranquility. - Zenyatta
• Never trouble trouble until trouble troubles you.
• World Map is a cat playing with Australia.
• I REALLY hate that eye rolling smiley!
NEWS: ... Beep, Boop!

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Diplomat
 
Posts: 718
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:54 pm

The Black Party wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
I just use the iPhone app, unfortunately.

preposterous! Everyone knows making an account boosts your quick-thinking skills by at least 15%.


Will an account get rid of ads?
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11153
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:01 pm

Yusseria wrote:Why don't we teach kids how to pay bills, apply for jobs and student loans and file for their tax returns?

Very little of what we teach kids (at least in America) actually helps them deal with their eventual adulthood.
plenty of schools in the world do that. It's not a lot of time.
We can teach both, Jim.
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
New haven america
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 29742
Founded: Oct 08, 2012
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby New haven america » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:02 pm

Kubra wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Why don't we teach kids how to pay bills, apply for jobs and student loans and file for their tax returns?

Very little of what we teach kids (at least in America) actually helps them deal with their eventual adulthood.
plenty of schools in the world do that. It's not a lot of time.
We can teach both, Jim.

Nope, impossible, we can only pick one or the other.
Human of the male variety
Will accept TGs
Char/Axis 2020

That's all folks~

User avatar
Dushan
Minister
 
Posts: 2279
Founded: Feb 17, 2016
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dushan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:07 pm

NERVUN wrote:But perhaps I am wrong. So what does it mean and how do we do it?


I guess theres different meanings thereof. But my take would be, for example, that it would teach people how to think more efficiently and not get lost in thoughts but instead uses the resources of the mind towards an objective.

But thats probably not what most people would mean with it.
Last edited by Dushan on Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Martial Nation on a far distant world with SciFi and Fantasy elements.

Factbook
This Nation does not use NS stats. When RPing with nation of different TL, we adapt to it.

User avatar
Saiwania
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14981
Founded: Jun 30, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Saiwania » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:10 pm

In my view, it should mean teaching people the skills to make tons of money or profit. Knowledge without direct applications is cheap. The economy can't run off of people who know "Art History" and other nonsense like that. We should be teaching high schoolers whatever makes good money so that upon graduating, they can get right to work like how it was in the 1950s. Not this college/university nonsense that is making lots of families suffer more financially.

If someone wants to begin training to be a doctor at 14, I don't think I'd oppose this. Because when they're done, they'll be 22 or so.

We need to fast track people into what they show aptitude for based upon how they test. If they don't like where they end up, they can try to switch to something else, but they'd need to pay out of pocket for their training in that case, as opposed to if they stick with what they're given. The underachievers will be fast tracked into something like fast food or retail whilst the brilliant kids will be pushed into becoming Accountants, Lawyers, Doctors, and so on.

User avatar
Kubra
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11153
Founded: Apr 15, 2006
Libertarian Police State

Postby Kubra » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:11 pm

New haven america wrote:
Kubra wrote: plenty of schools in the world do that. It's not a lot of time.
We can teach both, Jim.

Nope, impossible, we can only pick one or the other.
and we cannot teach them how to pay bills and also apply for jobs
one will be taught, the other shall become forbidden knowledge
“Atomic war is inevitable. It will destroy half of humanity: it is going to destroy immense human riches. It is very possible. The atomic war is going to provoke a true inferno on Earth. But it will not impede Communism.”
-Comrade Posadas

User avatar
Cameroi
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15378
Founded: Dec 24, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby Cameroi » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:21 pm

i believe the critical word critically missing from the thread title, is "critical", as in "critical thinking",
which simply means "ask the next question" (to yourself in doing your own research of course, not the perpetual "by why mommy".)

the ego is a narcissist and doesn't like to be doubted, but the half knowledge, that comes from failing the responsibility, to question, everything,
is dangerous to the self, a risk, too often needless, and to everyone else.
truth isn't what i say. isn't what you say. isn't what anybody says. truth is what is there, when no one is saying anything.

"economic freedom" is "the cake"
=^^=
.../\...

User avatar
Deutschess Kaiserreich
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1087
Founded: Sep 23, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Deutschess Kaiserreich » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:32 pm

The Black Party wrote:
New haven america wrote:No.

Free thinkers are bad.

I second this.

Big brother is watching
The Deutsches Kaiserreich
The Kaiserriech is an alternative history timeline where Germany won the First Weltkreig. Currently, the Kaiserriech is a Federal Monarchy. Our current leader is Victoria Louise Adelheid Mathilde Charlotte the Second. For more information.
Socialist Minecraft Server wrote:Im thinking about what im thinking about what im thinking
Ethnic Female German living in [REDACTED] (Not comfortable with revealing my identity).

Proud Monarch of the ♔♚IMPERION COALITION♚♔

User avatar
Yusseria
Minister
 
Posts: 2112
Founded: Feb 02, 2019
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Yusseria » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:47 pm

Kubra wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Why don't we teach kids how to pay bills, apply for jobs and student loans and file for their tax returns?

Very little of what we teach kids (at least in America) actually helps them deal with their eventual adulthood.
plenty of schools in the world do that. It's not a lot of time.
We can teach both, Jim.

Fine by me, fam.
Anti-Communist, American Nationalist, National Syndicalist
There is nothing wrong with Islamaphobia

User avatar
Cataluna
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 52
Founded: Aug 15, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Cataluna » Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:54 pm

People are just salty that school was never fun for them, that's my opinion. Our education system is largely okay the way it is. People who complain about school not teaching them "critical thinking" usually fall into two subcategories:
1. The valley of Dunning-Kruger, where they don't realize that they could never have learned critical thinking there anyways, and just say it to pass off the fact that they really just aren't good at school (which is fine, but don't criticize a vital part of society just because it wasn't your best area).
2. People who are far too arrogant for their own good and fail to realize the modern education system is doing the best it can to serve a diverse student body, including people who are less advantaged than them.

It's a nothing term that means whatever these people want it to mean when it comes to criticizing something that they know nothing about.

That being said, at least in America, both groups could be better serviced if school differentiated its students more into different areas of interest earlier on than university (yes, some schools do this, but few in my area).
Trans-woman who supports fully-automated luxury gay space communism

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Abarri, Asherahan, Estanglia, Heloin, Jack Thomas Lang, Nimzonia, Nordengrund, Ostroeuropa, Platypus Bureaucracy, Valrifell

Advertisement

Remove ads