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Was the New Left a Mistake?

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Communal concils
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Was the New Left a Mistake?

Postby Communal concils » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:56 pm

New Left: a social-liberal Movement in the 1960's to 70's in the west that focus on reforms on civil rights and counterculture against the social conservatism of western society.
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Like the "old" Left, the New "Left" is a anti-capitalist movements. Though, it values certain social issues more than other historical leftist movements. The social views it has are nearly identical views to Modern Liberalism. Therefor, it valued Reform over Revolution. At least in America, it had taked the form of College Student protest and activism. So, it was mostly focus on the young generation of it's time.
Old Leftism was focus on a working class, an Oppress Majority (instead of an oppress minority mindset of New Leftism). It goal was to create economic social justice, while New Leftism was focus on a social Justice that is nearly the same as Liberals.
what's your opinion on this movement, and does it actually have a positive impact today?

My Opinion: The New Left did not actually help leftism. The already established views of the suppose "Old" Left did not go reject anything they did. However, the leftist of old have done more than any western successor to the Historical movement of "New" Leftism. At best, it's unofficial Social democracy. At worse, it's Liberalism that likes the color red, and it is unconsciously loving the bourgeoisie lifestyle. Every time they look at historical examples of their desired system, they have idealistic fantasy about it, or they complain about it not going their way.

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Azlaake
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Postby Azlaake » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 pm

I don't necessarily think it was or is a mistake, that's just your opinion
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Postby Wisentia » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:02 pm

If "New Left" found its zenith in things like "Third Way Democrats", "New Labour", the Dutch and Belgian purple cabinets, the German Hartz IV laws, and so forth, it was a giant mistake.

I am reminded of the words of Berkhof: "Any ideology that weds itself to one generation, will be a widow in the next generation."

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Postby Communal concils » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:03 pm

Azlaake wrote:I don't necessarily think it was or is a mistake, that's just your opinion



Everybody does have opinions.

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Azlaake
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Postby Azlaake » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Communal concils wrote:
Azlaake wrote:I don't necessarily think it was or is a mistake, that's just your opinion



Everybody does have opinions.

I may not agree with you, but I respect your decision
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:05 pm

The real question here for op is do you consider them to be that distinct? Most people in the so called old left fully support the social justice goals that your so called new left espouses.

Going back to the 60s for example, the Soviet Union had enshrined in law many equal opportunities things that would take years to be copied in the west, like equal pay between sexes. And it didn't have the absurdity that was segregation going on (a fact that the Soviets actively used as a recruitment tool pretty successfully). So how much of a mistake was the so called new left focus on social issues where there was such an obvious injustice?
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Communal concils
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Postby Communal concils » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:07 pm

Wisentia wrote:If "New Left" found its zenith in things like "Third Way Democrats", "New Labour", the Dutch and Belgian purple cabinets, the German Hartz IV laws, and so forth, it was a giant mistake.

I am reminded of the words of Berkhof: "Any ideology that weds itself to one generation, will be a widow in the next generation."



In many ways, it's exactly like that.

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Postby Grenartia » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:10 pm

Hot take: You're just a social conservative that can't grasp the fact that the social order of the day is in part, motivated by the very capitalist oppression you claim to want to destroy, and yet you want to continue to uphold it, because you don't care about the liberation of oppressed peoples everywhere, only the liberation of yourself.
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Communal concils
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Postby Communal concils » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:14 pm

Chan Island wrote:The real question here for op is do you consider them to be that distinct? Most people in the so called old left fully support the social justice goals that your so called new left espouses.

Going back to the 60s for example, the Soviet Union had enshrined in law many equal opportunities things that would take years to be copied in the west, like equal pay between sexes. And it didn't have the absurdity that was segregation going on (a fact that the Soviets actively used as a recruitment tool pretty successfully). So how much of a mistake was the so called new left focus on social issues where there was such an obvious injustice?



My criticism is not that it supports minorities, but it alienates it's self from the usual demographics that leftism is suppose to represent. I admire the Soviet's union efforts to create equality among people, but they were not as liberal leaning as the New Left.New Leftism to me is liberalism with Far-Leftist aesthetics combined with idealism and failure to appeal to lower classes.

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Postby Communal concils » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:20 pm

Grenartia wrote:Hot take: You're just a social conservative that can't grasp the fact that the social order of the day is in part, motivated by the very capitalist oppression you claim to want to destroy, and yet you want to continue to uphold it, because you don't care about the liberation of oppressed peoples everywhere, only the liberation of yourself.



I'm not a social conservative, simply because I seek to abolish everything a conservative values. I want to abolish today's gender norms, and I question the importance of societies views on marriage.

I do care for people of various Backgrounds, I just don't believe in the Liberal concept of magically making people cooperate.
Just so you know, I am anti-Racist , Anti Imperialist and anti-Fascist. So there is nothing reactionary about my beliefs.

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Postby Yusseria » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Yes. Modern leftism has always been a mistake.
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:27 pm

Yusseria wrote:Yes. Modern leftism has always been a mistake.

I agree, and it infested our college system like a virus.
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Postby Autonomous Cleaner Bot Cleaners » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:31 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Yes. Modern leftism has always been a mistake.

I agree, and it infested our college system like a virus.


That's meningitis and mono. Nothing to do with the New Left, unless it has opinions on dense student housing.
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The Great-German Empire
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Postby The Great-German Empire » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:32 pm

It was a mistake in that it made the more empty, useless aspects of leftism like constant whining about race mainstream. When it comes to New Left-actual leftism relations, I can't say because I am right-wing. That being said, the New Left had its perks loosening the almost-prudist culture of old, giving us the unrestrained, unregulated gems of western late '70s-early '00s culture.
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Postby Zvahili » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Yes. Modern leftism has always been a mistake.

I agree, and it infested our college system like a virus.


But to be fair: that's because modern rightwingers are often too stupid to finish highschool... or already in their forties. Or both.

/ irony off.

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Postby Communal concils » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:35 pm

Yusseria wrote:Yes. Modern leftism has always been a mistake.


I would argue that it's a issue with Left-Libertarianism in general, and it's that Leftism that would argue for everything you expect from a stereotype of leftist.If you look in non-western nations, Far-Leftist movements are more likely to do something useful for their nations. In my opinion, it's Liberal democracy that allow such ideological limitations.

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Postby The New California Republic » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:37 pm

Communal concils wrote:
Grenartia wrote:Hot take: You're just a social conservative that can't grasp the fact that the social order of the day is in part, motivated by the very capitalist oppression you claim to want to destroy, and yet you want to continue to uphold it, because you don't care about the liberation of oppressed peoples everywhere, only the liberation of yourself.



I'm not a social conservative, simply because I seek to abolish everything a conservative values. I want to abolish today's gender norms, and I question the importance of societies views on marriage.

I do care for people of various Backgrounds, I just don't believe in the Liberal concept of magically making people cooperate.
Just so you know, I am anti-Racist , Anti Imperialist and anti-Fascist. So there is nothing reactionary about my beliefs.

You have repeatedly said on previous occasions that you want to ban non-reproductive sex. You have definite traits of social conservatism, and you are quite reactionary regarding sexual matters:

Communal concils wrote:people aren't allowed to have Non-reproductive sex. However the sex allowed would be focused on Natalism. Their will be attempts to show the populous the reproductive method is better than those that don't make offspring. celibacy and asexualism would be encourage as a method for those that don't chose reproduction.
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Postby Northern Jackaia » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:38 pm

New leftism? Oh god no, anything but more leftists.
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Postby Azlaake » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:39 pm

Northern Jackaia wrote:New leftism? Oh god no, anything but more liberals.

You know what was a mistake????
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Postby Communal concils » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:40 pm

The Great-German Empire wrote:It was a mistake in that it made the more empty, useless aspects of leftism like constant whining about race mainstream. When it comes to New Left-actual leftism relations, I can't say because I am right-wing. That being said, the New Left had its perks loosening the almost-prudist culture of old, giving us the unrestrained, unregulated gems of western late '70s-early '00s culture.




not only that, it gave up the ideal of class warfare and a populistic revolution. Without that, it's useless.
In general, i hate leftist groups that affiliate with liberal and Neo-liberal social views.

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Postby Aman Danakil » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:40 pm

Northern Jackaia wrote:New leftism? Oh god no, anything but more liberals.


Here is something to consider: by most non-American standards, liberals are centre-right, whereas the left is ... on the other side of the centre.

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Postby Azlaake » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:41 pm

Aman Danakil wrote:
Northern Jackaia wrote:New leftism? Oh god no, anything but more liberals.


Here is something to consider: by most non-American standards, liberals are centre-right, whereas the left is ... on the other side of the centre.

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Postby Northern Jackaia » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:41 pm

my whole life it a lie. America is a lie.
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[quote="Vojelneit";p="35557457"]while I wouldn't say that Whites are taught to "hate themselves" per se, they're certainly not taught to love themselves or to take pride in their racial heritage. I believe historical taboo is to blame for that - the concept of "White pride", with Whites having been dominant in the West at all times, has mostly been associated to supremacist beliefs; while "Black pride" (as an example), with Blacks having historically been an oppressed minority in the West (and especially the US), has been associated to simple affirmation and emancipation rather than a desire of dominance/quote

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Postby Aman Danakil » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:42 pm

Communal concils wrote:not only that, it gave up the ideal of class warfare and a populistic revolution. Without that, it's useless.
In general, i hate leftist groups that affiliate with liberal and Neo-liberal social views.


Such as: I have mine, I don't care how you get yours? Because that is a major part of neo-liberal thought, in my experience.

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The Great-German Empire
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Postby The Great-German Empire » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:46 pm

Communal concils wrote:
not only that, it gave up the ideal of class warfare and a populistic revolution. Without that, it's useless.
In general, i hate leftist groups that affiliate with liberal and Neo-liberal social views.


Now, I'm just a 'filthy' rightist to you, but I think there is much benefit in having a more civilized 'left' at the negotiating table. I really think we on the right could learn a thing or two about making large multinationals respect popular and national interest. Meanwhile class warfare just breeds excessive hate, making people separate from one another in preparation for a grand war/revolution which will, let's face it, no longer ever happen.
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