NATION

PASSWORD

[DRAFT] Improving rehabilitation of prisoners

Where WA members debate how to improve the world, one resolution at a time.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4287
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:25 am

Widowed Land wrote:
Maowi wrote: 'Ambasssador, by following this line of reasoning you are rendering that clause useless. You're effectively saying that nations who want to abide by it can do so; and those who don't can set an impossibly high standard of behaviour, in essence eliminating all chances of a prisoner behaving in that way. You'd be far better off recommending nations to set rewards for good behaviour than plugging in a useless, restrictively specific mandate.'


"I expected this kind of response. Let me explain that nations cannot escape this clause, they HAVE to put some kind of bar of approval, but it also must be doable. Nobody will ask of prisoners to learn how to fly or something like that. Examples that are mentioned in the draft are doable requests, it is up to nations how many requests will they make to prisoners and how extended the good behavior must be for it to be rewarded."

“The idea of the behaviour necessarily being ‘doable’ is not mentioned in the clause, so there is nothing wrong, compliantly speaking, with a nation setting a standard of behaviour that, while technically possible, is in practical terms almost impossible to achieve in reality.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14096
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:09 am

Widowed Land wrote:
Maowi wrote: 'Ambasssador, by following this line of reasoning you are rendering that clause useless. You're effectively saying that nations who want to abide by it can do so; and those who don't can set an impossibly high standard of behaviour, in essence eliminating all chances of a prisoner behaving in that way. You'd be far better off recommending nations to set rewards for good behaviour than plugging in a useless, restrictively specific mandate.'


"I expected this kind of response. Let me explain that nations cannot escape this clause, they HAVE to put some kind of bar of approval, but it also must be doable. Nobody will ask of prisoners to learn how to fly or something like that. Examples that are mentioned in the draft are doable requests, it is up to nations how many requests will they make to prisoners and how extended the good behavior must be for it to be rewarded."


"Unless you specify in the text that the requirements are limited to those within the realm of possibility, nations are under no obligation to make those requirements remotely reasonable."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
Widowed Land
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 115
Founded: Apr 06, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Widowed Land » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:16 am

"Three days release has been reduced to one day release. Clause will remain its initial purpose, while the probable expenses were cut several times. Also, extra subclause has been added, clarifying governments' prerogatives and limits to set their own standard of good behaviour."

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14096
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:21 am

Widowed Land wrote:"Three days release has been reduced to one day release. Clause will remain its initial purpose, while the probable expenses were cut several times. Also, extra subclause has been added, clarifying governments' prerogatives and limits to set their own standard of good behaviour."

"Nations can still set the standards high enough to evade this."

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4287
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:22 am

Widowed Land wrote:"Three days release has been reduced to one day release. Clause will remain its initial purpose, while the probable expenses were cut several times. Also, extra subclause has been added, clarifying governments' prerogatives and limits to set their own standard of good behaviour."

“One day, actually, is worse. The costs for three days are: safe transport to the home, paying guards, safe transport back from the home. The costs for one day are exactly the same as the above, and only the wages are reduced. That means that, on per-day cost, three days is cheaper. Both are still pointlessly expensive, and not an international issue.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Maowi
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 430
Founded: Jan 07, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Maowi » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:28 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"Nations can still set the standards high enough to evade this."


Kenmoria wrote:“One day, actually, is worse. The costs for three days are: safe transport to the home, paying guards, safe transport back from the home. The costs for one day are exactly the same as the above, and only the wages are reduced. That means that, on per-day cost, three days is cheaper. Both are still pointlessly expensive, and not an international issue.”


OOC: ^This. I don't see why you are so determined that this is the best and only way of encouraging good behaviour, to the extent that it must be forced upon member nations. Do what you want, to be honest; you've made it quite clear you're intent on keeping it, but it'll lose you a lot of votes.

User avatar
Widowed Land
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 115
Founded: Apr 06, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Widowed Land » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:18 pm

OOC: Is it even worth posting? Without massive telegram campaign it still won't achieve quorum, not to talk about actually passing. But it has been fun writing a resolution and then discussing it.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4287
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:33 pm

Widowed Land wrote:OOC: Is it even worth posting? Without massive telegram campaign it still won't achieve quorum, not to talk about actually passing. But it has been fun writing a resolution and then discussing it.

(OOC: Although it is true that it is almost impossible to pass a proposal without campaigning, there are numerous ways to do this. One could spend money on telegram stamps and just contact many people. Alternatively, you could do it manually and send telegrams to a few players at a time. Lastly, you can use API to telegram people automatically and freely, though it does take some setup beforehand.)
Last edited by Kenmoria on Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Widowed Land
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 115
Founded: Apr 06, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Widowed Land » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:32 pm

OOC: Okay, I'll submit it. Here goes nothing ^_^

User avatar
Marxist Germany
Diplomat
 
Posts: 538
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Marxist Germany » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:46 pm

"The World Assembly Delegation of Marxist Germany would like to notify you that it will be voting AGAINST"
Last edited by Marxist Germany on Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Marxist" no longer applies to this country. This country was made back when I was a leftist.

Author of GA#461
Political Compass
Conservative, Nationalist, Christian from Ireland.

User avatar
Widowed Land
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 115
Founded: Apr 06, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Widowed Land » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:48 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:"The World Assembly Delegation of Marxist Germany would like to notify you that it will be voting AGAINST"


"Thank you for telling me that over and over and over again, as if I was blind enough not to read it first several times"

User avatar
Marxist Germany
Diplomat
 
Posts: 538
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Marxist Germany » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:03 pm

Widowed Land wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:"The World Assembly Delegation of Marxist Germany would like to notify you that it will be voting AGAINST"


"Thank you for telling me that over and over and over again, as if I was blind enough not to read it first several times"

"We hoped that you'll remove the good behaviour clause but you seem very stubborn, if only you removed that clause you would've gotten my support."
"Marxist" no longer applies to this country. This country was made back when I was a leftist.

Author of GA#461
Political Compass
Conservative, Nationalist, Christian from Ireland.

User avatar
Widowed Land
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 115
Founded: Apr 06, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Widowed Land » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:15 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:
Widowed Land wrote:
"Thank you for telling me that over and over and over again, as if I was blind enough not to read it first several times"

"We hoped that you'll remove the good behaviour clause but you seem very stubborn, if only you removed that clause you would've gotten my support."


OOC: vote against as much as you like, first it kinda has to reach quorum.... yea doubt but I'll try to telegram the votes through

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4287
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:40 pm

Marxist Germany wrote:"The World Assembly Delegation of Marxist Germany would like to notify you that it will be voting AGAINST"

“The Kenmoria WA Mission wishes to declare its intention to vote against this proposal. Several clauses of the legislative text are prohibitively expensive, blatantly unsafe, not international issues, or all three.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Quappe
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 11
Founded: Apr 12, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Quappe » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:52 pm

"Whilst again restating that the intentions of this proposal are indeed commendable, Quappe will only consider voting for this proposal once the mandates relating to house arrest are removed and glaring errors in the proposal (e.g, on the clause about temporary house arrest for good behavior, one day and three day releases both being mentioned in contradiction to one another) are rectified. Many nations already employ long-term effective rewards, such as parole schemes, to encourage good behaviour in prisons, and such mandates are unnecessary measures."
Journalist, WAer, Issues Player.
Feel free to hit me up with a telegram! I'm always on the search for diplomatic allies and friendly debate.

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4287
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:14 am

(OOC: How are you campaigning? This is getting a lot more approvals than I initially thought it would.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Marxist Germany
Diplomat
 
Posts: 538
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Marxist Germany » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:20 am

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: How are you campaigning? This is getting a lot more approvals than I initially thought it would.)

OOC:We will make sure this gets crushed at vote
"Marxist" no longer applies to this country. This country was made back when I was a leftist.

Author of GA#461
Political Compass
Conservative, Nationalist, Christian from Ireland.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14096
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:21 am

Marxist Germany wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: How are you campaigning? This is getting a lot more approvals than I initially thought it would.)

OOC:We will make sure this gets crushed at vote

OOC: can you personally make that assurance?

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
Marxist Germany
Diplomat
 
Posts: 538
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Marxist Germany » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:25 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC:We will make sure this gets crushed at vote

OOC: can you personally make that assurance?

OOC:No
"Marxist" no longer applies to this country. This country was made back when I was a leftist.

Author of GA#461
Political Compass
Conservative, Nationalist, Christian from Ireland.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14096
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:27 am

Marxist Germany wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: can you personally make that assurance?

OOC:No

OOC: Best not to write checks with one's mouth that one's posterior cannot cash, I should think.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
Marxist Germany
Diplomat
 
Posts: 538
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Marxist Germany » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:28 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:
Marxist Germany wrote:OOC:No

OOC: Best not to write checks with one's mouth that one's posterior cannot cash, I should think.

OOC: :)
"Marxist" no longer applies to this country. This country was made back when I was a leftist.

Author of GA#461
Political Compass
Conservative, Nationalist, Christian from Ireland.

User avatar
East Meranopirus
Attaché
 
Posts: 96
Founded: Jul 28, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby East Meranopirus » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:29 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Best not to write checks with one's mouth that one's posterior cannot cash, I should think.

But meanwhile, when are you going to make up your mind whether it's legal or not?
All posts OOC unless otherwise stated.

User avatar
Separatist Peoples
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 14096
Founded: Feb 17, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Separatist Peoples » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:54 am

East Meranopirus wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Best not to write checks with one's mouth that one's posterior cannot cash, I should think.

But meanwhile, when are you going to make up your mind whether it's legal or not?

Ooc: I dont see a challenge, so I dont see a need to interact with this thread in an official capacity.

What's the problem with lawyer jokes?
Lawyer's don't think they're funny, and no one else thinks they're jokes.

Third year law student, homebrewer, and cat worshiper

User avatar
Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 4287
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:01 pm

East Meranopirus wrote:
Separatist Peoples wrote:OOC: Best not to write checks with one's mouth that one's posterior cannot cash, I should think.

But meanwhile, when are you going to make up your mind whether it's legal or not?

(OOC: Why would it be illegal? Though ill-conceived, I can’t see a reason for the proposal to break any rules.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

User avatar
Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 12725
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:24 pm

OOC: It's too bad that incomprehensibility isn't an illegality, if it's otherwise understandable English...

Also stupidities like "mandates that nations may".

And talking of detainees, prisoners and convicts as if they were synonyms.
Last edited by Araraukar on Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General Assembly

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ithania

Advertisement

Remove ads