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Democracy as a form of government

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The Multiversal Species Alliance
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Democracy as a form of government

Postby The Multiversal Species Alliance » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:25 pm

Why is democracy so widely seen as a good and/or great form of government? What has been it’s fruits?

I’m an American, maybe I’ve just never lived under other government forms, but to me democracy just doesn’t seem that great, it’s the system that elects socialists and communists who, historically speaking, have devastated economies and entire countries and societies and caused immense human misery. To quote Pinochet: “democracy is the system that chooses Barabbas over Jesus”
What do y’all think, NSG?
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Soviet Technocracy2
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Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy2 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:32 pm

I choose Barrabas but I support a constitutional rule way before democracy.

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Heloin
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:37 pm

It's always those who have only lived in democracy's that complain loudest at the faults of that system. I grew up in a dictatorship and can tell you that it's a shit place to live. There are a few people on NS who currently live in dictatorships and can tell you that they make life needlessly shit.

Also defending your point by quoting Pinochet proves you don't have the strongest grasp on what his Chile looked like.
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American Pere Housh
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Postby American Pere Housh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:39 pm

The Multiversal Species Alliance wrote:Why is democracy so widely seen as a good and/or great form of government? What has been it’s fruits?

I’m an American, maybe I’ve just never lived under other government forms, but to me democracy just doesn’t seem that great, it’s the system that elects socialists and communists who, historically speaking, have devastated economies and entire countries and societies and caused immense human misery. To quote Pinochet: “democracy is the system that chooses Barabbas over Jesus”
What do y’all think, NSG?

US isn't a democracy, its a constitutional republic.
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The Black Party
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby The Black Party » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:40 pm

Heloin wrote:It's always those who have only lived in democracy's that complain loudest at the faults of that system. I grew up in a dictatorship and can tell you that it's a shit place to live. There are a few people on NS who currently live in dictatorships and can tell you that they make life needlessly shit.

Also defending your point by quoting Pinochet proves you don't have the strongest grasp on what his Chile looked like.

Anecdotal evidence should just be thrown out the window.

Which dictatorship have you lived under?
Last edited by The Black Party on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Yusseria
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Postby Yusseria » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:41 pm

Democracy is typically only idolized as much as it is in the West. I mean, sure, democracies exist in Africa, Asia and South America but more often than not they're authoritarian states that lack the strong democratic traditions of the West. And why not? China alone is proof that democracy is not the only way forward.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:41 pm

I support a constitutional republic with some democratic elements. I do support some type of democracy as it is better than an unaccountable monarchy or oligarchy. I think constitutional amendments should be passed though to prevent the steps required to head towards socialism.

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:43 pm

The Black Party wrote:
Heloin wrote:It's always those who have only lived in democracy's that complain loudest at the faults of that system. I grew up in a dictatorship and can tell you that it's a shit place to live. There are a few people on NS who currently live in dictatorships and can tell you that they make life needlessly shit.

Also defending your point by quoting Pinochet proves you don't have the strongest grasp on what his Chile looked like.

Anecdotal evidence should just be thrown out the window.

Which dictatorship have you lived under?

I think she stated that she is from Zimbabwe.

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Caveman thog
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Founded: Mar 16, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Caveman thog » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:45 pm

thog dont caare

In all seriousness, democracy's perfectly fine. It's worked for us for over 200 years and we haven't collapsed except for the Articles of Confederation and the Civil War, so I think we're doing pretty well.

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Ifreann
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Ifreann » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:46 pm

Democracy is good because people should have a say in how they are governed. The benefit of living in a democracy is that when you don't like the government you have an easier way of making the government fuck off than having to successfully prosecute a revolution.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:47 pm

Yusseria wrote:Democracy is typically only idolized as much as it is in the West. I mean, sure, democracies exist in Africa, Asia and South America but more often than not they're authoritarian states that lack the strong democratic traditions of the West. And why not? China alone is proof that democracy is not the only way forward.

If you don't mind not having rights, dealing with unaccountable corrupt officials, and potentially being persecuted for having a certain ideas.

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The United Remnants of America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby The United Remnants of America » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:49 pm

Democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others.
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Yusseria
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Postby Yusseria » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:49 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Yusseria wrote:Democracy is typically only idolized as much as it is in the West. I mean, sure, democracies exist in Africa, Asia and South America but more often than not they're authoritarian states that lack the strong democratic traditions of the West. And why not? China alone is proof that democracy is not the only way forward.

If you don't mind not having rights, dealing with unaccountable corrupt officials, and potentially being persecuted for having a certain ideas.

I'm not saying its my personal preference. I'm just saying that democracy is not the only viable option for a 21st century government. Other societies don't value democracy as much and that's fine. Societies should decide for themselves what style of government they want. If they don't want democracy then it should not be forced upon them.
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Heloin
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:53 pm

The Black Party wrote:
Heloin wrote:It's always those who have only lived in democracy's that complain loudest at the faults of that system. I grew up in a dictatorship and can tell you that it's a shit place to live. There are a few people on NS who currently live in dictatorships and can tell you that they make life needlessly shit.

Also defending your point by quoting Pinochet proves you don't have the strongest grasp on what his Chile looked like.

Anecdotal evidence should just be thrown out the window.

Which dictatorship have you lived under?

Of course it should. I've only experienced the hardships of living under a government that wants you dead even when your a kid, what could I possibly know about just how bad that form of government really is to those living under it.

Grew up in Zimbabwe. I've been kicked in the face by police while walking to school, I've seen my dad dragged into police car to disappear for several days while they try to find out if he's going to vote incorrectly, seen the aftermath of my uncles farm being burned to the ground and the bullet holes in his car as he drove into exile with our aunt and cousins, and I've seen what elections are like when the state decided who really won.
When Barney waved a Sinn Féin flag, she shot off like a star. And they gave three cheers for freedom and for Johnston's Motor Car.

My Names Jennifer, a 20 something Rabbit and Rhodie Girl. Proudly Zimbabwean, and currently a Floridian too.
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Soviet Technocracy2
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Postby Soviet Technocracy2 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:54 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:If you don't mind not having rights, dealing with unaccountable corrupt officials, and potentially being persecuted for having a certain ideas.

China is working on the whole corruption thing. It requires rule of law which they are in the process of developing.

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:54 pm

Yusseria wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:If you don't mind not having rights, dealing with unaccountable corrupt officials, and potentially being persecuted for having a certain ideas.

I'm not saying its my personal preference. I'm just saying that democracy is not the only viable option for a 21st century government. Other societies don't value democracy as much and that's fine. Societies should decide for themselves what style of government they want. If they don't want democracy then it should not be forced upon them.

Understood, but I am going to say that a good chunk of people in China want democracy, but their movement was literally crushed by the army in 1989. I don't support interventionism by our army to bring democracy to the world though.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:55 pm

The Multiversal Species Alliance wrote:Why is democracy so widely seen as a good and/or great form of government? What has been it’s fruits?


Because the people who win write the history books.
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Heloin
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:56 pm

Soviet Technocracy2 wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:If you don't mind not having rights, dealing with unaccountable corrupt officials, and potentially being persecuted for having a certain ideas.

China is working on the whole corruption thing. It requires rule of law which they are in the process of developing.

I'm pretty sure that the Uyghurs and Tibetans are really happy that China is focusing on getting the massive corruption down.
When Barney waved a Sinn Féin flag, she shot off like a star. And they gave three cheers for freedom and for Johnston's Motor Car.

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I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! I draw things and make pixel stuff. And now maps! Take a look!

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Aressna
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Aressna » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:56 pm

Switzerland's democracy, in my humble opinion, is one of the best in the world. Citizens have much more power, and the country is governed by a council of people from different ideologies and parties. Citizens vote on various matters of federal importance, and routinely participate in referendums and other votes on other government levels.

Of course, I have never been to Switzerland, nor discussed politics extensively with a native, so I'm not exactly sure how good it actually is, but from what I've read I can say their democracy is very close to democracy's definition.
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Hammer Britannia
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Postby Hammer Britannia » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:57 pm

Democracy is dumb
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:58 pm

Soviet Technocracy2 wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:If you don't mind not having rights, dealing with unaccountable corrupt officials, and potentially being persecuted for having a certain ideas.

China is working on the whole corruption thing. It requires rule of law which they are in the process of developing.

I doubt it. Those party cronies aren't going to give up their power.

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Aressna
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Aressna » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:59 pm

Heloin wrote:
Soviet Technocracy2 wrote:China is working on the whole corruption thing. It requires rule of law which they are in the process of developing.

I'm pretty sure that the Uyghurs and Tibetans are really happy that China is focusing on getting the massive corruption down.

Oh I'm sure putting Uyghurs in concentration camps is a great way to improve freedom and a reduced corruption ;)
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Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:00 pm

Aressna wrote:Switzerland's democracy, in my humble opinion, is one of the best in the world. Citizens have much more power, and the country is governed by a council of people from different ideologies and parties. Citizens vote on various matters of federal importance, and routinely participate in referendums and other votes on other government levels.

Of course, I have never been to Switzerland, nor discussed politics extensively with a native, so I'm not exactly sure how good it actually is, but from what I've read I can say their democracy is very close to democracy's definition.

Yes, I agree.
Those affected by laws and policies should be able to have a say in them.
The only flaw is also present in all (plausible) governments (and would probably happen anyway if a majority of the population wanted it), which is that the majority may vote to persecute a certain minority. That is what a constitution should be for, to prevent that, (but again, as those who enforce laws can often de facto create them, if the vast majority desires that, then it will probably happen anyway).
Last edited by Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio on Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:00 pm

Heloin wrote:
Soviet Technocracy2 wrote:China is working on the whole corruption thing. It requires rule of law which they are in the process of developing.

I'm pretty sure that the Uyghurs and Tibetans are really happy that China is focusing on getting the massive corruption down.


Corruption isn't really why China is persecuting their minorities. It's part of their policy of assimilation and fears of uprisings that they have such as heavy hand on them.
Last edited by Salus Maior on Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Soviet Technocracy2
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Ex-Nation

Postby Soviet Technocracy2 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:01 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:I doubt it. Those party cronies aren't going to give up their power.

The legal reforms specifically aim at party discipline.

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