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Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

How should the government interact with religion?

Theocracy
6
3%
Caesaro-Papism
8
5%
Cultural Religion
27
16%
Confessionalism
4
2%
Secularism
104
60%
Laïcité
8
5%
State Atheism
15
9%
 
Total votes : 172

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Fahran
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Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

Postby Fahran » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:45 am


The Right Wing Discussion Thread
Part XV
A New Hoppe



Image

"Thread life is nasty, brutish, and short - especially when the RWDT has a controversial debate topic on hand."


The thread is dead; long live the thread! As surely as one generation follows the next, our adventures in reflection and banter begin again, friends and fellow travelers. We stand together as one community, mostly divisible, often internally belligerent, and always opinionated, with a simple social contract, one thrust upon us as an inheritance. Our goals are garrulousness and lofty pretension. A lot has been lost, many states of exception have been declared, several violations of the NAP have been documented, but we still reside in those permanent things peculiar to the human condition. So let's begin down this intellectual promenade, Luddites, Baathists, Gentileans, Agrarians, AnCaps, and Wehraboos. Feel free to paint your faces red and sing bawdy songs about Caesar while you're at it.

Welcome all to the Right-Wing Discussion Thread (RWDT), a place where we discuss all matters pertaining to the right-wing spirit and ethos. This is the fifteenth installment of the thread, making it NS's most beloved and controversial spot to engage in deep discussions that will no doubt bring forth the fruits of wisdom and change your life - probably by disordering your priorities and being a massive time drain. Seriously, go outside every now and again. Virtue of the body should accompany virtue of the mind. Beyond that, we ask that users to go by the dual-principle of being lenient towards the topic but also understanding when things get too off-topic and correcting themselves as necessary. In particular, be cautious not to have extensive theological debates if it has little to do with the sphere of right wing policies in general. We thank you for your understanding.

Suggestions for improvements, changes, or additions is as always welcome.

Relevant subjects for discussion include:
  • The politics, philosophies, and ideologies of the right.
  • Right-wing perspectives on economics and political economy.
  • News and history relevant to the political Right.
  • Artistic, musical, and literary pursuits and achievements relevant to right-wing perspectives.
  • Right-wing responses to current events.
  • Right-wing perspectives on social and economic problems.
  • Political, social, cultural, and economic problems and their solutions according to the political Right.
  • The problems facing particular right-wing movements or the political right in general, and how to resolve them.
Previous Iterations:
Part I
Part II
Part III
Part IV
Part V
Part VI
Part VII
Part VIII
Part IX
Part X
Part XI
Part XII
Part XIII
Part XIV

Poll History:
Poll 1: Is Cultural Marxism a Problem? (Jochistan) - 54% Voted Yes
Poll 2: Favorite Right-Wing Politicians? (Kauthar) - 25% voted Donald Trump
Poll 3: Favorite Right-Wing Autocrats (Unnamed Island State) - 45% voted Vladamir Putin
Poll 4: Best Right-Wing Countries (Kauthar) - Putin's Russia 21%
Poll 5: Best Right-Wing Ideologue (Legitimists)

Poll 1: What Right-Wing Ideology do you adhere to? - 55 votes for Libertarian
Poll 2 Favorite Right-Wing Economic System - 31 votes for Neoliberalism
Poll 3: Favorite Right-Wing Dictator - 18 Votes Kai Shek and Pinochet
Poll 4: Favorite Right-Wing Dictator PART 2 - David Cameron 49%
Poll 5: Prominent Right-Wing NSers/Favorite Future Right-Wing Dictator - Old Tyrannia 39 votes/29%
Poll 6: Favorite Fictional Right-Wing Dictators - Emperor Palpatine (Star Wars) 43 Votes/23%

Poll 0.1: Continue the Old Poll Y/N
Poll 1: Favorite Right-Wing Ideologies - Libertarianism/Minarchism

Poll 1: Favorite Centre-Right Parties - Republican Party (US) 39%
Poll 2: What should be the most important core value of a state ideology? Liberty 47%

Poll 1: Which piece of literature has been most significant to the development of right-wing ideology? - Reflections on the Revolution in France 68/237 (29%)
Poll 2: Favorite constitutional/government models? - US 166/528 (31%)

Poll 1: If you could reverse the outcomes of one of these events, which one would it be? - The Russian Revolution 116/343 (34%)
Poll 2: If you could ensure the survival of one empire at their height, which would it be? - The Roman Empire 119/495 (24%)

Do you drink alcohol and what's your opinion of it?
No, and I have a negative opinion of it. It should remain legal. - 57 (36%)
Total Votes: 157 (Recorded 09/01/2017)

Poll 1: Which of the following Trump picks are you most happy with? And are you overall satisfied with them? - James Norman Mattis 92/384 Terrible picks, what have we gotten ourselves into. 97/384
Poll 2: Is Islam compatible with western civilisation? No - 102/330. If reformed yes - 102/330
Poll 3: Which side, for the sake of mankind, should have won WW1? The Allied Powers - 225/385
Poll 4: Was the Reformation a good thing? Yes - 146/287

Poll 1: If you could alter or overturn one of these treaties, which would it be? Treaty of Versailles - 365/564

Poll 1: What stance do you take on immigration? Limited open borders that priorities only high skilled labor. Melting-pot model. - 204/814

Poll 1: Which Kievan/Novrogrodian/Russian/Soviet leader was the greatest? Peter I The Great. 66/210

Poll 1: Which Japanese Shogunate was the most glorious? - MacArthur Shogunate :'). 289/450

Reading Suggestions:
If you’re looking to read something relevant to right-wing politics, consider reading some of the texts below. If you think something’s missing from this list, please post a recommendation. If you think something should be removed, please explain why.

  • ”Leviathan”
    — Thomas Hobbes. (Read Here)
  • ”Two Treatises of Government”
    — John Locke. (Read Here)
  • ”The Protestant Work Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism.”
    — Max Weber.
  • ”Reflections on the Revolution in France”
    — Edmund Burke. (Read Here)
  • ”The Wealth Of Nations”
    — Adam Smith. (Read Here)
  • ”Essay on the Generative Principle of Political Constitutions and other Human Institutions”
    — Joseph de Maistre. (Read Here)
  • ”Rerum novarum”
    — Pope Leo XIII. (Read Here)
  • ”The Crisis of the Modern World”
    — Rene Guenon. (Read Here)
  • ”The Doctrine Of Fascism”
    — Benito Mussolini. (Read Here)
  • ”The Conservative Mind”
    — Russell Kirk.


If you’re interested in discussing matters relating to the political left, we would be quite insistent about your physical removal to the Left-Wing Discussion Thread, our estranged sister thread that doesn't come to family gatherings anymore.
Last edited by Fahran on Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:17 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Conserative Morality
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:47 am

I will treasure this OP forever.
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The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
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Democratic Socialists

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:47 am

Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?
<THE HIGH SWAGLORD>
Out-of-Character Ideological Info | Philosophy Test Results

My ideal form of government is a supranational technocratic world-state with elements of a constitutional participatory democracy and a mixed economic system with slightly market socialist leanings. The legislature would be bicameral and consist of a lower house comprised of randomly-selected citizens, and a upper house structured in a vaguely corporatist form. The executive branch would be ran by a directorial council of "philosopher-monarchs/scholar-officials" who have achieved the highest rankings in the civil service. Socially, a civic religion inspired by Mohist thought would be prevalent so as to ensure brotherhood and unity.

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Nea Byzantia
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nea Byzantia » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:48 am

So this is the new RWDT? How often do you change...is it every 500 pages?

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Old Tyrannia
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Posts: 14410
Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:49 am

Bugger, you beat me to it by a matter of seconds.
Nea Byzantia wrote:So this is the new RWDT? How often do you change...is it every 500 pages?

Unfortunately, threads longer than 500 pages have a tendency to break the forum, and are therefore banned.
Last edited by Old Tyrannia on Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nea Byzantia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nea Byzantia » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:49 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:So this is the new RWDT? How often do you change...is it every 500 pages?

Nvm...I just read Fahran's Post on the old one.

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
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Posts: 1471
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:49 am

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?

To enact violence upon fellow humans and establish order, not most people care though as long the state it regulates itself.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord
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Posts: 4943
Founded: Jul 22, 2016
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:49 am

Nea Byzantia wrote:So this is the new RWDT? How often do you change...is it every 500 pages?


Yep. 500 pages is the maximum amount allowed on NationStates.

As to my earlier question, the state has two main/primary roles, these roles being like opposite sides of the same coin: to prevent the summum malum of a war of all against all, and to likewise promote social harmony and stability.
<THE HIGH SWAGLORD>
Out-of-Character Ideological Info | Philosophy Test Results

My ideal form of government is a supranational technocratic world-state with elements of a constitutional participatory democracy and a mixed economic system with slightly market socialist leanings. The legislature would be bicameral and consist of a lower house comprised of randomly-selected citizens, and a upper house structured in a vaguely corporatist form. The executive branch would be ran by a directorial council of "philosopher-monarchs/scholar-officials" who have achieved the highest rankings in the civil service. Socially, a civic religion inspired by Mohist thought would be prevalent so as to ensure brotherhood and unity.

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Dresderstan
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Dresderstan » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:50 am

We haven't had a poll for these threads in a while, that should change honestly.
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Conserative Morality
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Posts: 75083
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:51 am

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?

A beacon, a sword, a shield, a gavel, and a whip.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
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Nea Byzantia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nea Byzantia » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:52 am

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?

To enact violence upon fellow humans and establish order, not most people care though as long the state it regulates itself.

To reflect the Rule of God upon the Earth; that is to say, to make Order out of Chaos, just as God ordered the Universe into Being ex nihilo. It is from this philosophical basis that the State in general, and the Monarch in particular, gains his/her legitimacy.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Democratic Socialists

Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:52 am

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?

To serve Allah SWT.

To New Byzantia, being a dhimmi isn't humiliating.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
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I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
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Hanafuridake
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Posts: 823
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Hanafuridake » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:52 am

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?


At the most practical, to ensure the security and well being of the citizenry. At the most ideal, to be the embodiment of the spiritual ideal of the national will.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century.

Yūzū Nembutsu adherent
Strong believer in cultural preservation
Not secretly a flower
Buddhist nationalist
Itō Jinsai
Ogyū Sorai
Kamo no Mabuchi
Motoori Norinaga
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Henri Bergson
Lord Dunsany
Prince Shotoku wrote:Let us control ourselves and not be resentful when others disagree with us, for all men have hearts and each heart has its own leanings. The right of others is our wrong, and our right is their wrong. We are not unquestionably sages, nor are they unquestionably fools. Both of us are simply ordinary men.

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Free Arabian Nation
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Posts: 950
Founded: May 02, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Free Arabian Nation » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:53 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?

To serve Allah SWT.

Nah, the purpose of the state is to protect and serve the people.
Last edited by Free Arabian Nation on Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
الأمة العربية الحرة

We are not Ba'athist, a Caliphate, or an Islamic Theocracy, we just so happen to be Arab/Muslim Majority.
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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
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Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:54 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:To serve Allah SWT.

To New Byzantia, being a dhimmi isn't humiliating.

Wrong. The purpose of the state and the people is to cherish and respect Supreme Leader.
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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Nea Byzantia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nea Byzantia » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:55 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?

To serve Allah SWT.

To New Byzantia, being a dhimmi isn't humiliating.

If you're Christian it generally is. Even if the intention from the Muslim Overlords are good; the reality on the ground is often quite different.

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Old Tyrannia
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Founded: Aug 11, 2009
Father Knows Best State

Postby Old Tyrannia » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:55 am

The purpose of the state is clearly to give bureaucrats something to do.
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Conserative Morality
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Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:55 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:The purpose of the state is clearly to give bureaucrats something to do.

Found the Brit. :p
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Hanafuridake
Diplomat
 
Posts: 823
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Hanafuridake » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:56 am

Old Tyrannia wrote:The purpose of the state is clearly to give bureaucrats something to do.


When did Confucius join this forum.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century.

Yūzū Nembutsu adherent
Strong believer in cultural preservation
Not secretly a flower
Buddhist nationalist
Itō Jinsai
Ogyū Sorai
Kamo no Mabuchi
Motoori Norinaga
Friedrich Nietzsche
Yukio Mishima
Henri Bergson
Lord Dunsany
Prince Shotoku wrote:Let us control ourselves and not be resentful when others disagree with us, for all men have hearts and each heart has its own leanings. The right of others is our wrong, and our right is their wrong. We are not unquestionably sages, nor are they unquestionably fools. Both of us are simply ordinary men.

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Hanafuridake
Diplomat
 
Posts: 823
Founded: Sep 09, 2018
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Hanafuridake » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:59 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?

To serve Allah SWT.

To New Byzantia, being a dhimmi isn't humiliating.


Being reduced to second class citizenship is humiliating even if you're allowed your own autonomous zones.

These attempts to tell people they've got it all wrong and it would totally be cool to live under an Islamic theocracy are always going to fail miserably because people see right through them. No one is going to be convinced that being reduced to a citizen under an Islamic state is appealing.
Last edited by Hanafuridake on Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Time traveling Heian princess trapped in the 21st century.

Yūzū Nembutsu adherent
Strong believer in cultural preservation
Not secretly a flower
Buddhist nationalist
Itō Jinsai
Ogyū Sorai
Kamo no Mabuchi
Motoori Norinaga
Friedrich Nietzsche
Yukio Mishima
Henri Bergson
Lord Dunsany
Prince Shotoku wrote:Let us control ourselves and not be resentful when others disagree with us, for all men have hearts and each heart has its own leanings. The right of others is our wrong, and our right is their wrong. We are not unquestionably sages, nor are they unquestionably fools. Both of us are simply ordinary men.

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The Galactic Liberal Democracy
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Posts: 1471
Founded: Jun 13, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby The Galactic Liberal Democracy » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:59 am

Hanafuridake wrote:When did Confucius join this forum.

Only seconds before his death caused by highly concentrated amounts of FACTS LOGIC AND REASON
NOT STORMTROOPERS
Cossack Khanate wrote:This shall forever be known as World War Sh*t: Newark Aggression. Now if I see one more troop deployed, I will call on the force of all the Hindu gods to reverse time and wipe your race of the face of the planet. Cease.

The Black Party wrote:(TBP kamikaze's into all 99999999999 nukes before they hit our territory because we just have that many pilots ready to die for dah blak regime, we also counter-attack into your nation with our entire population of 45 million because this RP allows it.)

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Galatic Liberal Democracy short-circuits all of NS with FACTS and LOGIC

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Fahran
Senator
 
Posts: 3841
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:59 am

Conserative Morality wrote:I will treasure this OP forever.

As I will cherish you forever. :p

Blame Rei. It's her fault.

Old Tyrannia wrote:Bugger, you beat me to it by a matter of seconds.

I have the fastest smallish hands in the West, partner. If you want to do the next one, I promise I won't stop you.

The Supreme Magnificent High Swaglord wrote:Speaking of life being nasty, brutish, and short... let's resort to a good old fashioned question: what is the proper role of the state, if anything?

The state does not exist for any particular reason but rather represents a natural emanation of society. With regard to the role and function of the state, it began as a means of preserving social order, arbitrating disputes through the political process, upholding the immutable moral order through the cultivation of the citizens and the execution of justice, enshrining the rights and obligations of the citizen, and fully realizing the political nature of man.
Last edited by Fahran on Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:06 am, edited 3 times in total.

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 12713
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:02 am

Can we have a poll?
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Nea Byzantia
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Posts: 1397
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nea Byzantia » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:02 am

The Galactic Liberal Democracy wrote:
Hanafuridake wrote:When did Confucius join this forum.

Only seconds before his death caused by highly concentrated amounts of FACTS LOGIC AND REASON

I see Li Si has arrived.

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Nea Byzantia
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Posts: 1397
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Nea Byzantia » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:03 am

The New California Republic wrote:Can we have a poll?

Yes, about what System of Government is best. Would be interesting to see what people think.

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