Intersectionalism reaching full madness?

[Chessmistress]

Seriously, some intersectionalists (actually a quite popular magazine) are bashing USA's government push to decriminalize homosexuality worldwide!

Source:
https://www.out.com/news-opinion/2019/2 ... ws-opinion

Excerpt + emphasis mine + my comments:

Trump’s Plan to Decriminalize Homosexuality Is an Old Racist Tactic

Since when "old racists" pushed to decriminalize homosexuality?

Homosexuality has been illegal in Iran since the theocratic 1979 Islamic Revolution. By at least one Guardian account, since the exit of president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2013, enforcement of anti-gay laws has softened somewhat. Homosexuality, according to the writer, is an “open secret” and most queer people fear homophobic reaction from fellow citizens more than the authorities.

"Has softened somewhat"
That's supposed to be enough to not take action?

“We know Trump is very focused on Iran and is looking for ways to demonize it in the public opinion and this is one area where you know the US and European countries see eye to eye on Iran,”

Why countries having death penalty for homosexual acts shouldn't be demonized?

There are several signs that this decision is denoted in a colonial sense of paternalism rather than any true altruism. According to the report, the decriminalization campaign is set to begin in Berlin where LGBTQ+ activists from across Europe will meet to hatch a plan that is “mostly concentrated in the Middle East, Africa, and the Caribbean.”

That sentence alone should set off several alarm bells. First of all, the Middle East, Africa, and the Caribbean are huge geopolitical entities. Attitudes toward gay people differ greatly among countries and regions within those entities and attempting to gather a room of European activists on how to deal with queer issues in those regions is the definition of paternalism.

No, no, no: you have to gather activists within more pro-LGB countries and then focus your action against anti-LGB regimes, and that's exactly what it seems they're doing!
How that's "paternalism"?

I have no words for such kind of dumbness, those people are criticizing a good move, calling it "colonialism" and "paternalism"!
I'm not stupid, I know that Trump's administration is doing it for political gain and not out of good heart or fairness, and I'm also aware that Mike Pence is even more dangerous than Trump. But that isn't my point: the point is that such action, even if it could have many flaws, should never be so harshly criticized, that's my point.

What do you think, NSGs?

[Ors Might]

Seriously, some intersectionalists (actually a quite popular magazine) are bashing USA's government push to decriminalize homosexuality worldwide!

Source:
https://www.out.com/news-opinion/2019/2 ... ws-opinion

Excerpt + emphasis mine + my comments:

Trump’s Plan to Decriminalize Homosexuality Is an Old Racist Tactic

Since when "old racists" pushed to decriminalize homosexuality?

Homosexuality has been illegal in Iran since the theocratic 1979 Islamic Revolution. By at least one Guardian account, since the exit of president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2013, enforcement of anti-gay laws has softened somewhat. Homosexuality, according to the writer, is an “open secret” and most queer people fear homophobic reaction from fellow citizens more than the authorities.

"Has softened somewhat"
That's supposed to be enough to not take action?

“We know Trump is very focused on Iran and is looking for ways to demonize it in the public opinion and this is one area where you know the US and European countries see eye to eye on Iran,”

Why countries having death penalty for homosexual acts shouldn't be demonized?

There are several signs that this decision is denoted in a colonial sense of paternalism rather than any true altruism. According to the report, the decriminalization campaign is set to begin in Berlin where LGBTQ+ activists from across Europe will meet to hatch a plan that is “mostly concentrated in the Middle East, Africa, and the Caribbean.”

That sentence alone should set off several alarm bells. First of all, the Middle East, Africa, and the Caribbean are huge geopolitical entities. Attitudes toward gay people differ greatly among countries and regions within those entities and attempting to gather a room of European activists on how to deal with queer issues in those regions is the definition of paternalism.

No, no, no: you have to gather activists within more pro-LGB countries and then focus your action against anti-LGB regimes, and that's exactly what it seems they're doing!
How that's "paternalism"?

I have no words for such kind of dumbness, those people are criticizing a good move, calling it "colonialism" and "paternalism"!
I'm not stupid, I know that Trump's administration is doing it for political gain and not out of good heart or fairness, and I'm also aware that Mike Pence is even more dangerous than Trump. But that isn't my point: the point is that such action, even if it could have many flaws, should never be so harshly criticized, that's my point.

What do you think, NSGs?

Yeah, this is stupid. When a bad administration ends up doing something good for political reasons, you still have something good. Trying to discourage that is just illogical.

[Scomagia]

This is the natural result of trying to find fault with everything a person does because you don't like them. Eventually, you'll shoot yourself in the foot.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

This is the natural result of trying to find fault with everything a person does because you don't like them. Eventually, you'll shoot yourself in the foot.

Something that's typical in modern day feminism unfortunately.

[Ifreann]

Trump has no interest in advancing the rights of LGBT people. When asked about this push he didn't even care enough to pretend to know what he was being asked about, he just said he didn't know what the reporter was referring to. I can't imagine that LGBT Americans appreciate being used as a cudgel by the same party that only a few short years ago was fighting against marriage equality.

[Ors Might]

Trump has no interest in advancing the rights of LGBT people. When asked about this push he didn't even care enough to pretend to know what he was being asked about, he just said he didn't know what the reporter was referring to. I can't imagine that LGBT Americans appreciate being used as a cudgel by the same party that only a few short years ago was fighting against marriage equality.

I imagine the LGBT individuals in those countries might appreciate some help, though.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Trump has no interest in advancing the rights of LGBT people. When asked about this push he didn't even care enough to pretend to know what he was being asked about, he just said he didn't know what the reporter was referring to. I can't imagine that LGBT Americans appreciate being used as a cudgel by the same party that only a few short years ago was fighting against marriage equality.

I imagine the LGBT individuals in those countries might appreciate some help, though.

Nah fam, clearly orange man is worse than death from defenestration and active persecution.

[Galloism]

I think this is less "intersectionalism" and "let's find a reason to hate trump-ism".

I'm going to echo have to agree with this one:

Yeah, this is stupid. When a bad administration ends up doing something good for political reasons, you still have something good. Trying to discourage that is just illogical.

Plenty of reasons to diss on Trump. Why you picking the one where he's doing something good?

[Ifreann]

Trump has no interest in advancing the rights of LGBT people. When asked about this push he didn't even care enough to pretend to know what he was being asked about, he just said he didn't know what the reporter was referring to. I can't imagine that LGBT Americans appreciate being used as a cudgel by the same party that only a few short years ago was fighting against marriage equality.

I imagine the LGBT individuals in those countries might appreciate some help, though.

Indeed they might. Shame Trump doesn't care about helping them.

[Ifreann]

I think this is less "intersectionalism" and "let's find a reason to hate trump-ism".

I'm going to echo have to agree with this one:

Yeah, this is stupid. When a bad administration ends up doing something good for political reasons, you still have something good. Trying to discourage that is just illogical.

Plenty of reasons to diss on Trump. Why you picking the one where he's doing something good?

He's not doing anything. He doesn't even know this is happening.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out ... sh-n974161

But Wednesday, a reporter asked President Donald Trump in the Oval Office, “Mr. President, on your push to decriminalize homosexuality — are you doing that? And why?”

"Say it?” Trump responded.

“Your push to decriminalize homosexuality across the world,” the reporter repeated.

Trump responded: "I don't know, uh, which report you're talking about. We have many reports."

[Des-Bal]

Trump has no interest in advancing the rights of LGBT people. When asked about this push he didn't even care enough to pretend to know what he was being asked about, he just said he didn't know what the reporter was referring to. I can't imagine that LGBT Americans appreciate being used as a cudgel by the same party that only a few short years ago was fighting against marriage equality.

Don't appreciate it just take it. If they want to complain they could do to the black voters who were supposed to sign on with the civil rights platform of the party that started and was still running the whole Jim Crow thing.

This is the game. Everybody is playing and offering your eternal enmity to one side does not benefit you, it just ensures that they will have no incentive to soften and that the party of your preference can feel comfortable taking you for granted.

[Ors Might]

I think this is less "intersectionalism" and "let's find a reason to hate trump-ism".

I'm going to echo have to agree with this one:



Plenty of reasons to diss on Trump. Why you picking the one where he's doing something good?

He's not doing anything. He doesn't even know this is happening.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out ... sh-n974161

But Wednesday, a reporter asked President Donald Trump in the Oval Office, “Mr. President, on your push to decriminalize homosexuality — are you doing that? And why?”

"Say it?” Trump responded.

“Your push to decriminalize homosexuality across the world,” the reporter repeated.

Trump responded: "I don't know, uh, which report you're talking about. We have many reports."

To which the appropriate response is to try and hold him to it. Not call it colonialism and discourage further action on his part.

[Galloism]

I think this is less "intersectionalism" and "let's find a reason to hate trump-ism".

I'm going to echo have to agree with this one:



Plenty of reasons to diss on Trump. Why you picking the one where he's doing something good?

He's not doing anything. He doesn't even know this is happening.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out ... sh-n974161

But Wednesday, a reporter asked President Donald Trump in the Oval Office, “Mr. President, on your push to decriminalize homosexuality — are you doing that? And why?”

"Say it?” Trump responded.

“Your push to decriminalize homosexuality across the world,” the reporter repeated.

Trump responded: "I don't know, uh, which report you're talking about. We have many reports."

Ok, why diss on the one where his administration is doing something good?

Other than him being an idiot.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

To be honest, I think that this thread was created because TERFs don't like internationalist feminists, and the OP is of the former.

[Farnhamia]

To be honest, I think that this thread was created because TERFs don't like internationalist feminists, and the OP is of the former.

You might very well think so. I could not possibly comment, nor should you. Chessmistress is not the topic.

[Hot Skitty on Wailord Action]

He's not doing anything. He doesn't even know this is happening.
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out ... sh-n974161

Ok, why diss on the one where his administration is doing something good?

Other than him being an idiot.

Probably because—as has been pointed out in this thread already—he isn’t actually doing anything at all. All this is is Trump flapping his gums.

Personally, if Trump were to actually take any concrete action on the decriminalisation of homosexuality, I would actually welcome that. Sad thing he isn’t.

[Galloism]

Ok, why diss on the one where his administration is doing something good?

Other than him being an idiot.

Probably because—as has been pointed out in this thread already—he isn’t actually doing anything at all. All this is is Trump flapping his gums.

Personally, if Trump were to actually take any concrete action on the decriminalisation of homosexuality, I would actually welcome that. Sad thing he isn’t.

From the actual CNN article the editorial quoted:

Although the decriminalization strategy is still being hashed out, officials say it’s likely to include working with global organizations like the United Nations, the European Union and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, as well as other countries whose laws already allow for gay rights. Other U.S. embassies and diplomatic posts throughout Europe, including the U.S. Mission to the E.U., are involved, as is the State Department’s Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor.

Narrowly focused on criminalization, rather than broader LGBT issues like same-sex marriage, the campaign was conceived partly in response to the recent reported execution by hanging of a young gay man in Iran, the Trump administration’s top geopolitical foe.

Grenell, as Trump’s envoy to Germany, has been an outspoken Iran critic and has aggressively pressed European nations to abandon the 2015 nuclear deal and re-impose sanctions. But while the Trump administration has had some success in pressuring Iran through stepped-up U.S. penalties, efforts to bring the Europeans along have thus far largely fallen flat.

Reframing the conversation on Iran around a human rights issue that enjoys broad support in Europe could help the United States and Europe reach a point of agreement on Iran. Grenell called the hanging “a wake-up call for anyone who supports basic human rights,” in Bild, a leading German newspaper, this month.

I wouldn't say that's nothing. Strategizing and engaging multiple departments to engage in strategizing is definitely a something.

[Vassenor]

Ok, why diss on the one where his administration is doing something good?

Other than him being an idiot.

Probably because—as has been pointed out in this thread already—he isn’t actually doing anything at all. All this is is Trump flapping his gums.

Personally, if Trump were to actually take any concrete action on the decriminalisation of homosexuality, I would actually welcome that. Sad thing he isn’t.

And if this were real it's a classic case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, in this case using LGBT rights as nothing more than a stick to beat the Iranians with.

[Galloism]

Probably because—as has been pointed out in this thread already—he isn’t actually doing anything at all. All this is is Trump flapping his gums.

Personally, if Trump were to actually take any concrete action on the decriminalisation of homosexuality, I would actually welcome that. Sad thing he isn’t.

And if this were real it's a classic case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, in this case using LGBT rights as nothing more than a stick to beat the Iranians with.

Would you rather a person did the right thing for the wrong reasons, or the wrong thing for the right reasons?

[Kowani]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what this push by Trump would actually entail?

[Vassenor]

And if this were real it's a classic case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, in this case using LGBT rights as nothing more than a stick to beat the Iranians with.

Would you rather a person did the right thing for the wrong reasons, or the wrong thing for the right reasons?

And what would "the wrong thing for the right reasons" be in this case?

[Farnhamia]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know what this push by Trump would actually entail?

"What push? We have lots of pushes."

Does the venerable western expression "All hat and no cow" ring a bell?

[Scomagia]

Probably because—as has been pointed out in this thread already—he isn’t actually doing anything at all. All this is is Trump flapping his gums.

Personally, if Trump were to actually take any concrete action on the decriminalisation of homosexuality, I would actually welcome that. Sad thing he isn’t.

And if this were real it's a classic case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, in this case using LGBT rights as nothing more than a stick to beat the Iranians with.

Which is irrelevant. The question is, does this have potential benefit for LGBT's? The answer is yes.

[Vassenor]

And if this were real it's a classic case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, in this case using LGBT rights as nothing more than a stick to beat the Iranians with.

Which is irrelevant. The question is, does this have potential benefit for LGBT's? The answer is yes.

#notyourshield

And if Trump and co care so much about LGBT rights, why isn't that reflected and indeed is that outright contradicted in actual GOP policy?

[Galloism]

Would you rather a person did the right thing for the wrong reasons, or the wrong thing for the right reasons?

And what would "the wrong thing for the right reasons" be in this case?

Deciding to invade Iran to liberate gay people from their oppressors?