[Submitted] Hazed and Confused

[The Pharcyde]

TITLE:

Hazed and Confused


VALIDITY:

Did not ban alcohol, did not ban fraternities in Fraternity Furor


DESCRIPTION:

The deaths of two Mu Alpha Xi pledges at @@CAPITAL@@ University has triggered a serious debate about whether hazing should be classified as a crime.


OPTION 1

"Have you seen the things on this report?" asks your visibly disgusted Minister of Justice. "Students were forced to go to the grocery store, buy cabbages, name them, and then raise the cabbages as though they were their children. Then they were blindfolded and forced to stand in traffic while being pelted with their cabbage children! At least one @@DEMONYM@@ student has died every year during hazings for the past three decades. We must criminalize hazing!"

OUTCOME:

college fraternity brothers return from study abroad programs with unexplained injuries

OPTION 2

"I became the man I am today thanks to getting good ol' fashioned hazing," writes one of your preferred college drinking buddies in an e-mail. "The people trying to criminalize 'hazing' would probably criminalize masculinity too, if you gave them the chance. You know what would be funny, and also great for society? You should make hazing mandatory for all first-year college students. Just think how tough our nation would become."

OUTCOME:

fraternity rituals across the nation usually take place in dark basements

OPTION 3

"You've got us all wrong, we didn't do nothing to these kids," insist Chad and Brad, the co-presidents of Mu Alpha Xi at @@CAPITAL@@ University. "Those idiots were standing in the middle of traffic, and we threw things at them to encourage them to run for safety. Why does everyone always assume the worst about fraternities? Maybe if you trusted us this wouldn't happen. Give us the benefit of the doubt...or at least a right to have our secret rituals remain secret. Give us our confidentiality! We'll let you know whenever things go wrong. We're responsible..."

OUTCOME:

sixteen students at @@CAPITAL@@ University have "spontaneously combusted" while "making s'mores"

OPTION 4

"As a compromise in this crazy debate, why not just require fraternities and sororities to have more supervision?" writes an impassioned parent in @@NAME@@ Today. "Until they're paying their own bills, I think our children need to be watched. Personally, I haven't been able to be with my son 24/7 since he left for college, but I've bugged his room and constantly track his whereabouts. It works wonders!"

OUTCOME:

the government sponsors sorority webcam feeds

TITLE:

Hazed and Confused


VALIDITY:

Did not ban alcohol, did not ban fraternities in Fraternity Furor


DESCRIPTION:

The deaths of two Mu Alpha Xi pledges at @@CAPITAL@@ University has triggered a serious debate about whether hazing should be classified as a crime.


OPTION 1

"Have you seen the things on this report?" asks your visibly disgusted Minister of Justice. "In addition to hazing, these fraternity brothers should be facing charges of first-degree murder. What happened to those kids was as criminal as it was preventable. Hazing should be a crime!"

OUTCOME:

a stark decrease in fraternity membership has coincided with the rapid rise of collegiate fight clubs

OPTION 2

"While this chapter of Mu Alpha Xi was clearly in the wrong, I would pump the brakes on this discussion before it gets out of hand," writes one of your preferred college drinking buddies in an e-mail. "The people trying to criminalize 'hazing' would probably criminalize masculinity too, if you gave them the chance. In my opinion, boys will be boys, and most pledging rituals aren't like Mu Alpha Xi's. Why not just permanently ban the fraternities that kill people? Ban Mu Alpha Xi from every campus in @@NAME@@!"

OUTCOME:

online orders for branding irons have increased tenfold

OPTION 3

"Now, now...as an organization, Mu Alpha Xi is committed to community engagement, philanthropy, and developing the next generation of @@DEMONYM@@ leaders," defends @@RANDOMNAMEMALE@@, the Director of Mu Alpha Xi's national office, during a TV interview. "We accept our share of responsibility for what happened to these two men. Having said that, @@CAPITAL@@ University deserves more criticism: Universities should be responsible for what transpires on their campuses. The justice system should hold universities accountable for student safety. "

OUTCOME:

women outnumber men on college campuses, which have become "cautious about liability"

OPTION 4

"As a compromise, why not just require fraternities to be more open about their activities?" writes one concerned parent in @@NAME@@ Today. "Fraternities are notoriously tight-lipped, and a lot of this trouble could've been avoided if it were easier for universities to stay on top of what their fraternities are doing. Universities and fraternities can cooperate...right?"

OUTCOME:

@@CAPITAL@@ University administrators have released a statement mourning six Mu Alpha Xi pledges who spontaneously combusted while making s'mores

Inspired by this horrifying incident at LSU and stories where students have died from hazing

[Digedingdangdong]

This is really good for a new author.

[Australian rePublic]

You might wanna explain what "hazing" is

[Digedingdangdong]

You might wanna explain what "hazing" is

It's that thing where you use a spray bottle to mist your plants, right?

[Valrifell]

I think that four options (as they stand) seem like too many. Your first two are kinda similar to each other since they both ban (a kind of) hazing and your third one is more related to who carries the blame than hazing itself, which I think is it's own separate animal.

[The Pharcyde]

I think that four options (as they stand) seem like too many. Your first two are kinda similar to each other since they both ban (a kind of) hazing and your third one is more related to who carries the blame than hazing itself, which I think is it's own separate animal.

How many would you recommend? I narrowed it down to two choices and made it a bit clearer what hazing is.

I would like to add a third option that is more zany than the other two. Any suggestions? What I currently have is decent but I'm not super attached to it...

TITLE:

Hazed and Confused


VALIDITY:

Did not ban fraternities in Fraternity Furor


DESCRIPTION:

Recently, two @@CAPITAL@@ University were killed during a fraternity ritual where pledges were forced to stand in traffic while being pelted with cabbages. These deaths have triggered a serious debate about whether hazing should be classified as a felony.


OPTION 1

"Have you seen the things on this report?" asks your visibly disgusted Minister of Justice. "These fraternity brothers are murderers, but clearly there's a systemic cultural issue where fraternities humiliate and abuse their new members. We need to draw the line somewhere. Let's start here. In the name of basic decency, hazing should be a felony throughout @@NAME@@!"

OUTCOME:

a stark decrease in fraternity membership has coincided with the rapid rise of collegiate fight clubs

OPTION 2

"While Mu Alpha Xi was clearly in the wrong, I would pump the brakes on this discussion before it gets out of hand," writes one of your preferred college drinking buddies in an e-mail, who is also an alumni of Nu Sigma. "The people trying to criminalize 'hazing' would probably criminalize masculinity too, if you offerred them the chance. Let our boys be boys..."

OUTCOME:

online orders for branding irons have increased tenfold

OPTION 3

"You've got us all wrong, we didn't do nothing to these kids," insists Chad and Brad, the co-presidents of Mu Alpha Xi at @@CAPITAL@@ University. "Those idiots were standing in the middle of traffic, and we threw cabbages at them to encourage them to run for safety. Why does everyone always assume the worst about fraternities? Maybe if you trusted us this wouldn't happen. Give us the benefit of the doubt...or at least a right to have our secret rituals remain secret."

OUTCOME:

sixteen students at @@CAPITAL@@ University have "spontaneously combusted" while "making s'mores"

[Bears Armed]

I would like to add a third option that is more zany than the other two. Any suggestions?]

Compulsory 'hazing' for all new students? Maybe even with an effect line which makes it obvious that -- whatever the original intent might have been -- this policy is now being applied right down to the kindergarten level?

^_^

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Good topic. This is a well-written draft. While it's thin, it's better to start thin and add stuff on rather than start as a mess and have to trim down.

Hazed and Confused

Nice.

Validity-wise I'd add that alcohol must not be banned. It's hard to imagine frat culture could exist in the absence of alcohol.

The deaths of two Mu Alpha Xi pledges at @@CAPITAL@@ University has triggered a serious debate about whether hazing should be classified as a felony.

In disagreement with others, I don't think you need to explain what hazing is. While the term is very much an American one, I think it's one with sufficient cultural penetration in various media to be globally recognisable. Likewise, you don't really have strange greek letter names for fraternities outside of the US, and for most of us, a pledge is a promise rather than a person, but it's fine for issues to be a little parochial when the concepts are globally recognisable.

A more notably American term here is "felony", as there isn't really a global term for Mu Alpha Zi, or pledges, or hazing, but there is for felonies. I'd just go with "crime".

OPTION 1

"Have you seen the things on this report?" asks your visibly disgusted Minister of Justice. "In addition to hazing, these fraternity brothers should be facing charges of first-degree murder. What happened to those kids was as criminal as it was preventable. Hazing should be a felony!"

Brevity is nice, but don't be afraid to add more length if you're adding humour or information. I think it'd be relevant to give some context here, to say that "at least one @@DEMONYM@@ student has died every year during hazings for the past three decades" (which wouldn't be an unfair representation of the US IRL). You could also find room to describe some things on the report, rather than alluding to them. Just make 'em funny!

OUTCOME:

a stark decrease in fraternity membership has coincided with the rapid rise of collegiate fight clubs

Not bad. It's the right sort of line, in a technical sense, though I have to say it's not that funny (to me).

OPTION 2

"While this chapter of Mu Alpha Xi was clearly in the wrong, I would pump the brakes on this discussion before it gets out of hand," writes one of your preferred college drinking buddies in an e-mail. "The people trying to criminalize 'hazing' would probably criminalize masculinity too, if you gave them the chance. In my opinion, boys will be boys, and most pledging rituals aren't like Mu Alpha Xi's. Why not just permanently ban the fraternities that kill people? Ban Mu Alpha Xi from every campus in @@NAME@@!"

OUTCOME:

online orders for branding irons have increased tenfold

Not a great effect line, and I think the option would make more sense if you just made it about criminal punishment for the guilty fraternity members rather than banning the fraternity, as otherwise the day after Mu Alpha Xi is banned, Mu Beta Xi will turn up with the exact same members.

OPTION 3

"Now, now...as an organization, Mu Alpha Xi is committed to community engagement, philanthropy, and developing the next generation of @@DEMONYM@@ leaders," defends @@RANDOMNAMEMALE@@, the Director of Mu Alpha Xi's national office, during a TV interview. "We accept our share of responsibility for what happened to these two men. Having said that, @@CAPITAL@@ University deserves more criticism: Universities should be responsible for what transpires on their campuses. The justice system should hold universities accountable for student safety. "

OUTCOME:

women outnumber men on college campuses, which have become "cautious about liability"

I don't think this option adds any worth to the narrative save comprehensiveness, I suggest cutting it.

OPTION 4

"As a compromise, why not just require fraternities to be more open about their activities?" writes one concerned parent in @@NAME@@ Today. "Fraternities are notoriously tight-lipped, and a lot of this trouble could've been avoided if it were easier for universities to stay on top of what their fraternities are doing. Universities and fraternities can cooperate...right?"

OUTCOME:

@@CAPITAL@@ University administrators have released a statement mourning six Mu Alpha Xi pledges who spontaneously combusted while making s'mores

This option might be fun if it demanded full transparency on fraternity and sorority activities, and had an effect line along the lines of:

"the government sponsors sorority webcam feeds"

[Trotterdam]

Validity-wise I'd add that alcohol must not be banned. It's hard to imagine frat culture could exist in the absence of alcohol.

The last option on #434 bans alcohol in a way that implies fraternities could continue to exist, although the speaker might just be wrong about that. The speaker is obviously biased.

I don't really have a clue about "frat culture". Never been in one.

The deaths of two Mu Alpha Xi pledges at @@CAPITAL@@ University has triggered a serious debate about whether hazing should be classified as a felony.

In disagreement with others, I don't think you need to explain what hazing is.

Maybe not as such, but I think it would be good to go into a little more detail about what these people were doing that led to death. "Hazing" by itself isn't any particular activity, moreso a purpose behind that activity. Adding that would also help people figure out what "hazing" is from context, without needing to patronize them by spelling it out.

A more notably American term here is "felony", as there isn't really a global term for Mu Alpha Zi, or pledges, or hazing, but there is for felonies. I'd just go with "crime".

Huh, is it? I've seen that term so much that I never realized it's specifically American. I thought it was just a general English term.

[Verdant Haven]

A more notably American term here is "felony", as there isn't really a global term for Mu Alpha Zi, or pledges, or hazing, but there is for felonies. I'd just go with "crime".

Huh, is it? I've seen that term so much that I never realized it's specifically American. I thought it was just a general English term.

The American usage was derived from British English, but after we broke away the British (and pretty much everybody else with English common law) underwent major reforms and modernization of the justice system, which happened to have got rid of that term in common usage for them. What we call a felony is called an "indictable offense" in England, Ireland, Canada, Australia, etc these days. The extreme long-term punishment we in the US have for felons (permanent loss of voting rights, being branded a "felon" for life, inability to get many licenses, legal discrimination, etc) is largely a relic of the ancient system we inherited as well, because unfortunately we never truly modernized our justice system like the rest of the western world. There's a reason our incarceration rates are so high, and are horrifying to Europeans and so many others... the system they are based in is antiquated and based in revenge rather than rehab.

[Jutsa]

Funnily enough, I hadn't the foggiest what Hazing meant.

My cloudy misconception that it was alcohol-related was rectified by the almighty google,
but still, I had to look it up.

[The Pharcyde]

I updated the original post with a new draft.

If cabbages are too weird I can make it a watermelon. We raised cabbages in my frat. Mine was named Serge.

[Verdant Haven]

My cloudy misconception that it was alcohol-related was rectified by the almighty google,
but still, I had to look it up.

I mean... In universities it often is alcohol related, and that's usually what gets shown in films and media, so you're not completely wrong there. Any sort of initiation ritual could be called hazing, especially if its main purpose is just to cause embarrassment or discomfort, but booze certainly has a large part in many of them.

One(incredibly scummy) frat at my university got itself in deep crap when they put 26 freshman in the hospital at once by secretly putting everclear in a beer bong and telling them all to drink it. Thankfully the hospital was literally across the street, and was a level II trauma center.

[Socio Polor]

A decent issue you got here, and your writing ain't half bad. Welcome to the GI Forum!

TITLE:

Hazed and Confused

Nice!

Did not ban alcohol, did not ban fraternities in Fraternity Furor

Alcohol is only referenced once in this issue in Option 2. it wouldn't make much sense to restrict an entire issue to nations who banned the use of alcohol on one mention. Consider rewriting the second option without the mention of alcohol. Sense you're new I'll help you with that:

Validity: Nations who legalized alcohol use
Option 2a: "While this chapter of Mu Alpha Xi was clearly in the wrong, I would pump the brakes on this discussion before it gets out of hand." writes @@randomname@@, one of your preferred college drinking buddies in an e-mail. "The people trying to criminalize 'hazing' would probably criminalize masculinity too, if you gave them the chance. In my opinion, boys will be boys, and most fraternity rituals aren't like Mu Alpha Xi's. Wouldn't it make more sense to just punish fraternity brothers who oversee rituals that go wrong?"
Validity: Nations who banned alcohol use
Option 2b: "While this chapter of Mu Alpha Xi was clearly in the wrong, I would pump the brakes on this discussion before it gets out of hand." writes @@randomname@@, one of your preferred college buddies in an e-mail. "The people trying to criminalize 'hazing' would probably criminalize masculinity too, if you gave them the chance. In my opinion, boys will be boys, and most fraternity rituals aren't like Mu Alpha Xi's. Wouldn't it make more sense to just punish fraternity brothers who oversee rituals that go wrong?"

Or to save yourself the trouble, simply remove the reference altogether

"Have you seen the things on this report?" asks your visibly disgusted Minister of Justice. "Students were forced to go to the grocery store, buy cabbages, name them, and then raise the cabbages as though they were their children. Then they were blindfolded and forced to stand in traffic while being pelted with their cabbage children! At least one @@DEMONYM@@ student has died every year during hazings for the past three decades...but if that doesn't make you angry, think about those poor cabbages. We must criminalize hazing!"

Try shortening the dialogue here a bit and give some context on what the Justice Minister is doing or how they are acting. This is usually a good moment to add humor or a story feel to your options (as though you were writing a book). Also try making use of the @@randomname@@ macro whenever you introduce a new speaker in your options.

"While this chapter of Mu Alpha Xi was clearly in the wrong, I would pump the brakes on this discussion before it gets out of hand," writes one of your preferred college drinking buddies in an e-mail. "The people trying to criminalize 'hazing' would probably criminalize masculinity too, if you gave them the chance. In my opinion, boys will be boys, and most fraternity rituals aren't like Mu Alpha Xi's. Wouldn't it make more sense to just punish fraternity brothers who oversee rituals that go wrong?"

This one seems a little contradictory to me. The speaker says "boys will be boys" yet proposes to punish fraternity brothers.

"As a compromise, why not just require fraternities and sororities to be more open about their activities?" writes one concerned parent in @@NAME@@ Today. "We must keep an eye on them. Clearly they can't be left alone!"

Add more context toward the speaker on this.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

I'd say that the issue needs to be for nations with alcohol only, and suggest not following the above advice.

[Socio Polor]

I'd say that the issue needs to be for nations with alcohol only, and suggest not following the above advice.

You sure CWA? If this issue was discussing about alcohol I may agree with you, but seeing as though it's only referenced once in the entire issue it doesn't make much sense to restrict a good issue like this against nations who banned alcohol use

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Purely my opinion. However my feeling is that hazing culture only exists where alcohol exists.

[Socio Polor]

Purely my opinion. However my feeling is that hazing culture only exists where alcohol exists.

I see, but why did you say to not take my advice did I say something wrong?

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Look, upthread I suggested the issue needed a validity check against alcohol not being banned.

You in turn have suggested that validity is not needed, and suggested a doppelganger option instead.

So basically, your'e disagreeing. I'm disagreeing with your disagreement.

The author can decide which way to go with this, but just bear in mind that if and when I edit this, I'll add that validity check back on.

[Socio Polor]

Look, upthread I suggested the issue needed a validity check against alcohol not being banned.

You in turn have suggested that validity is not needed, and suggested a doppelganger option instead.

So basically, your'e disagreeing. I'm disagreeing with your disagreement.

The author can decide which way to go with this, but just bear in mind that if and when I edit this, I'll add that validity check back on.

Well as an editor you can do that I suppose

[The Pharcyde]

Overall what do you all think of the newest draft? Should I submit it soon or does it need more work? Since it would be edited I know it doesn’t need to be perfect, but I’d like to put my best foot forward

[Candlewhisper Archive]

It's looking very good.

"Have you seen the things on this report?" asks your visibly disgusted Minister of Justice. "Students were forced to go to the grocery store, buy cabbages, name them, and then raise the cabbages as though they were their children. Then they were blindfolded and forced to stand in traffic while being pelted with their cabbage children! At least one @@DEMONYM@@ student has died every year during hazings for the past three decades...but if that doesn't make you angry, think about those poor cabbages. We must criminalize hazing!"

Love the cabbage humour, but you could probably shorten this a little while retaining most of the same jokes.

OUTCOME:

a stark decrease in fraternity membership has coincided with the rapid rise of "vegetable orphanages"

This effect line makes too little sense out of context, which will be troublesome on the front page text of nations. Likely needs to change.

OPTION 2

"While this chapter of Mu Alpha Xi was clearly in the wrong, I would pump the brakes on this discussion before it gets out of hand," writes one of your preferred college drinking buddies in an e-mail. "The people trying to criminalize 'hazing' would probably criminalize masculinity too, if you gave them the chance. In my opinion, boys will be boys, and most fraternity rituals aren't like Mu Alpha Xi's. Wouldn't it make more sense to just punish fraternity brothers who oversee rituals that go wrong?"

OUTCOME:

fraternity rituals across the nation usually take place in dark basements

There's some tonal inconsistency here. Reasonable-sounding with compromise solutions people don't accuse critics of "criminalizing masculinity", basically. I'd suggest rather than dropping the phrase, instead make the speaker LESS reasonable.

OPTION 3

"You've got us all wrong, we didn't do nothing to these kids," insists Chad and Brad, the co-presidents of Mu Alpha Xi at @@CAPITAL@@ University. "Those idiots were standing in the middle of traffic, and we threw cabbages at them to encourage them to run for safety.

Don't revisit the cabbage joke, as repetition is diminishing the humour.

Why does everyone always assume the worst about fraternities? Maybe if you trusted us this wouldn't happen. Give us the benefit of the doubt...or at least a right to have our secret rituals remain secret."

"Do nothing" options are the same as the dismiss button. This option needs to do something proactively.

"As a compromise, why not just require fraternities and sororities to be more open about their activities?" writes one concerned parent in @@NAME@@ Today. "We must keep an eye on them. Clearly they can't be left alone!"

This option is out of balance with the others in its length. I'd suggest make it a little longer, and make the others a little shorter. And by making it longer, I mean add something relevant or funny, not just padding.

the government sponsors sorority webcam feeds

Great line. Who came up with that?

[The Pharcyde]

Candlewhisper Archive, I made edits based on your comments. They are marked in red in my original post.

[Candlewhisper Archive]

Looking pretty good.

[The Pharcyde]

Looking pretty good.

Thank you!

I have a little while longer to wait until I have enough people in my nation to submit the issue, so I happily welcome further feedback.