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Proposed Replacement If "Reproductive Freedoms" Is Repealed

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TURTLESHROOM II
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Proposed Replacement If "Reproductive Freedoms" Is Repealed

Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:21 pm

{ OOC: This is a proposed replacement made after several users over at this discussion said they would not consider a repeal without a suitable replacement. }

In the vents of the World Assembly headquarters, over a conference room of delegates discussing a potential repeal of the two hundred eighty-sixth Resolution, a turtle slips papers through the grates revealing a proposed means of replacement in the event of the repeal of the "Reproductive Freedoms" resolution.

"I heard several of y'all wanted a replacement for the baby killin' resolution. I got one hee-yuh if y'all are interested."


[DRAFT]


Honorable and Responsible Abortion Accord
Category: Civil Rights | Area of Effect: Mild | Proposed by: TurtleShroom



THE WORLD ASSEMBLY,

ACKNOWLEDGING the duty of member states to protect the lives of the innocent,

DECLARING that unborn offspring are equal members of the species as their parents, baring legal personhood and separate genetic makeup, and, in cases of viviparous organisms, separate from the pregnant mother,

NOTING that unborn non-humans require specific definitions and law, which are not defined clearly,

OBSERVING the need for regulations on abortion that are not anthropocentric, and

RESIGNING ITSELF to the fact that circumstances arise that neccesitate the termination of an unborn life,

Hereby resolves the following:
    1. All abortions shall be performed by medics recognized by their country of origin as permitted to practice surgical medicine. All abortion clinics shall be held to the country of origin's standards and regulations of hospitals and operating rooms. All abortion clinics shall be subject to the country of origin's medical sanitary regulations. Expecting couples that are under their nation's age of majority must have the explicit, written consent of all applicable parents or legal guardians in order to perform an abortion. All abortions must be voluntary; compulsory abortion is prohibited in any and all circumstances.

    2. The termination of an unborn zygote, embryo, or fetus gestated within a viviparous organism, shall only be permitted in an instance that demonstratably endangers the life of the pregnant mother, in an instance where the unborn is gestating outside the womb, or in a medically demonstrable instance where the unborn will die if brought to term.

    3. The termination of an unborn, fertilized egg within an ovoviviparous being shall only be permitted before the egg is internally hatched.

    4. The termination of an unborn, oviparous being shall not be permitted after the egg is laid.

    5. An unborn zygote, embryo, or fetus of any type shall not be terminated after a time period in which it has been medically demonstrated and proven that it is capable of feeling pain, unless there is a grevious or certain endangerment on the mother's life if the fetus is carried to term. During the course of an emergency abortion, all attempts shall be made to assuage the pain of a fetus capable of registring it.

    6. A viviparous fetus shall not be terminated by the procedure of Intact Dilation and Extraction or any other late-stage abortion requiring physical dismemberment.

    7. Partial birth dismemberment of a viviparous fetus is prohibited.

    8. Nations shall be permitted to allow for the termination of unborn zygotes, embryoes, or fetuses in the event that their conception demonstratably occured in the process of an act of rape, should they so by law direct, and subject to the provisions of this Resolution.

    9. No unborn entity may be electively aborted on the basis of biological sex or physical attributes, absent the above exceptions.

    10. Resucitation and protection of an unborn entity that survives an abortion attempt must be rendered in all circumstances.

    11. All artificially fertilized, viviparous zygotes and embryoes shall be frozen for future impregnation instead of discarded.

    12. In the event of a species that reproduces in such a way that cannot be biologically classed as viviparous, ovoparous, or ovoviviparous, individual nations shall, factoring in the provisions, prohibitions, and definitions above, define "pregnancy" and the definitions of zygote, embroy, and fetus (if applicable) in a way recognized by the medical community of the nation, with the intent of the preservation of the unborn absent the conditions listed as a valid reason to terminate an unborn entity.

    13. The consent of all living participants in the initial conception of the unborn shall be required in order to terminate an unborn zygote, fetus, or embryo of any kind, except in the following circumstances:
    A) One party to the pregnancy engaged in an act of rape, as defined by the laws of the member state.
    B) One party to the pregnancy has commited an act of domestic abuse or violence against the impregnated party, as defined by the laws of the member state.
    C) In these circumstances, only the consent of the fertilized party is neccessary to terminate an unborn zygote, fetus, or embryo, unless the provisions of the fourteenth clause are invoked.

    14. In the instances where one or more minors have conceived offspring, the explicit, written notification and consent of all living parents or legal guardians over all minors involved is mandatory in order to proceed with the termination of the pregnancy, subject to the sub-sections "A" and "B", in the provisions of the thirteenth clause. In the event of the invocation of the thirteenth clause, only the explicit, written notification and consent of the fertilized minor's parents are required. This clause does not apply to wards of the state, orphans, or offspring of unknown or untracable parents.

    15. An illegal abortion is to be considered an act of murder and the party directly commiting the actual act of abortion shall be charged accordingly, subject to the definitions and laws of the member state. Member states may, should they so by law direct, elect to prescribe criminal penalties or liabilities to the mother who solicited the illicit abortion, should they so desire.

    16. This act does not apply to species that reproduce by mitosis or asexual reproduction, or if offspring are never in an unborn or gestating state, as defined by the laws of the member state.
Last edited by TURTLESHROOM II on Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:49 am, edited 14 times in total.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:33 pm

IC: "No support. And this is in no way any kind of superior replacement. At a quick glance it would in fact needlessly endanger the lives of some pregnant individuals."

OOC: I appreciate the species-neutral approach, but can't help but feel that you're going too far into the details of the various ways of reproduction, that should be left to the nations whom they concern. I have a puppet nation with people with ovoviviparous reproduction system, but as I've borrowed from RL on it, the fetuses eat one another until only 1 per half of womb survives, and then are fed by unfertilized eggs produced just for that purpose by the mother... Nature can be a bitch to the unborn.

Also, number your active clauses.
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Postby Snofjogur » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:42 pm

I refuse to support this resolution. The decision on whether to abort or not belongs to the parent(s), not to some doctor whose job is to determine whether the pregnancy presents a health risk to the mother. People should be able to have abortions performed by health professionals regardless of whether not doing so would be risky or not. (Not that it would affect us, since we grow humans in labs and our entire population is sterile, but we support human rights abroad and place the right of the parents to have the life they desire over the right of a mass of genetically human cells to finish developing into a human baby.)
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TURTLESHROOM II
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:45 pm

Araraukar wrote:IC: "No support. And this is in no way any kind of superior replacement. At a quick glance it would in fact needlessly endanger the lives of some pregnant individuals."


IC: "Well, this here resolution explicitly allows mommas to kill their key-ids if their lives are endangered. How does that endanger pregnant individuals?"

Araraukar wrote:OOC: I appreciate the species-neutral approach, but can't help but feel that you're going too far into the details of the various ways of reproduction, that should be left to the nations whom they concern.


{ OOC: Acknowledged. Clauses concerning creatures that reproduce other creatures, which allow leeway, have been added. }

Araraukar wrote:OOC: Also, number your active clauses.


{ OOC: Done. }
Last edited by TURTLESHROOM II on Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:46 pm

Snofjogur wrote:I refuse to support this resolution. The decision on whether to abort or not belongs to the parent(s), not to some doctor whose job is to determine whether the pregnancy presents a health risk to the mother.


IC: "That'd render abortion fully elective! Although it could be considered, providin' the provisions 'gainst dismemberment and all that are applied, this resolution attempts to, whenever possible, protect the unborn and its momma. Notice that nations whose hahts are hard are allowed to legislate for killin' in the case of rape, too."

IC: "How would ya'll go 'bout determinin' if the momma's life's in danger if there ain't no doctor or other professional to determine such?"
Last edited by TURTLESHROOM II on Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:49 pm

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:IC: "Well, this here resolution explicitly allows mommas to kill their key-ids if their lives are endangered. How does that endanger pregnant individuals?"

IC: "What are key-ids and what do they have anything to do with abortion?" Johan asked, confused, as the universal translator gave him a line about keycard identifications.

OOC: As long as you go for the attention-grabby language of "abortion kills kids" (which is 0% true in terms of the WA anyway), there's no reason I should be taking you seriously or try to properly help you in any way.

EDIT: Also, learn to edit new answers into your existing posts. Repeatedly multiple-posting can earn you a spam warning.
Last edited by Araraukar on Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The New Nordic Union » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:49 pm

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:13. The consent of all participants in the initial conception of the unborn shall be required in order to terminate an unborn zygote, fetus, or embryo of any kind.
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OOC:
Giving rapists the power to make decisions like that seems highly distateful.
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TURTLESHROOM II
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:53 pm

[quote="Araraukar";p="35304473"OOC: As long as you go for the attention-grabby language of "abortion kills kids" (which is 0% true in terms of the WA anyway), there's no reason I should be taking you seriously or try to properly help you in any way.[/quote]

{ OOC: "Key-ids" is a phonetic representation of a classic Southern drawl, in which "kids" is slurred into two syllables. }

{ OOC: Nowhere in the resolution, at all, is abortion condemned or described using colliqualism. Those were strictly in-character statements. }
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:01 pm

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:{ OOC: "Key-ids" is a phonetic representation of a classic Southern drawl, in which "kids" is slurred into two syllables. }

OOC: I know, but in IC it gets translated as "key ids" for my character. :P

{ OOC: Nowhere in the resolution, at all, is abortion condemned or described using colliqualism. Those were strictly in-character statements. }

OOC: You used it anyway. I refuse to partake your masturbatory show about abortion rights, unless you're willing to take it seriously yourself. In IC my reply is/would be even less helpful.
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Postby Hatzisland » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:04 pm

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:{ OOC: This is a proposed replacement made after several users over at this discussion said they would not consider a repeal without a suitable replacement. }

In the vents of the World Assembly headquarters, over a conference room of delegates discussing a potential repeal of the two hundred eighty-sixth Resolution, a turtle slips papers through the grates revealing a proposed means of replacement in the event of the repeal of the "Reproductive Freedoms" resolution.

"I heard several of y'all wanted a replacement for the baby killin' resolution. I got one hee-yuh if y'all are interested."


[DRAFT]


Honorable and Responsible Abortion Accord
Category: Civil Rights | Area of Effect: Mild | Proposed by: TurtleShroom



THE WORLD ASSEMBLY,

ACKNOWLEDGING the duty of member states to protect the lives of the innocent,

DECLARING that unborn offspring are equal members of the species as their parents, baring legal personhood and separate genetic makeup, and, in cases of viviparous organisms, separate from the pregnant mother,

NOTING that unborn non-humans require specific definitions and law, which are not defined clearly,

OBSERVING the need for regulations on abortion that are not anthropocentric, and

RESIGNING ITSELF to the fact that circumstances arise that neccesitate the termination of an unborn life,

Hereby resolves the following:
    1. All abortions shall be performed by medics recognized by their country of origin as permitted to practice surgical medicine. All abortion clinics shall be held to the country of origin's standards and regulations of hospitals and operating rooms. All abortion clinics shall be subject to the country of origin's medical sanitary regulations. Expecting couples that are under their nation's age of majority must have the explicit, written consent of all applicable parents or legal guardians in order to perform an abortion. All abortions must be voluntary; compulsory abortion is prohibited in any and all circumstances.

    2. The termination of an unborn zygote, embryo, or fetus gestated within a viviparous, shall only be permitted in an instance that demonstratably endangers the life of the pregnant mother, in an instance where the unborn is gestating outside the womb, or in a medically demonstrable instance where the unborn will die if brought to term.

    3. The termination of an unborn, fertilized egg within an ovoviviparous being shall only be permitted before the egg is internally hatched.

    4. The termination of an unborn zygote, embryo, or fetus of an oviparous being shall not be permitted after the egg is laid.

    5. An unborn zygote, embryo, or fetus of any type shall not be terminated after a time period in which it has been medically demonstrated and proven that it is capable of feeling pain.

    6. A viviparous fetus shall not be terminated by the procedure of Intact Dilation and Extraction or any other late-stage abortion requiring physical dismemberment.

    7. Partial birth dismemberment of a viviparous fetus is prohibited.

    8. Nations shall be permitted to allow for the termination of unborn zygotes, embryoes, or fetuses in the event that their conception demonstratably occured in the process of an act of rape, should they so by law direct, and subject to the provisions of this Resolution.

    9. No unborn entity may be electively aborted on the basis of biological sex or physical attributes, absent the above exceptions.

    10. Resucitation and protection of an unborn entity that survives the abortion attempt must be rendered in all circumstances.

    11. All artificially fertilized, viviparous zygotes and embryoes shall be frozen for future impregnation instead of discarded.

    12. In the event of a species that reproduces in such a way that cannot be biologically classed as viviparous, ovoparous, or ovoviviparous, individual nations shall, factoring in the provisions, prohibitions, and definitions above, define "pregnancy" and the definitions of zygote, embroy, and fetus (if applicable) in a way recognized by the medical community of the nation, with the intent of the preservation of the unborn absent the conditions listed as a valid reason to terminate an unborn entity.

    13. The consent of all participants in the initial conception of the unborn shall be required in order to terminate an unborn zygote, fetus, or embryo of any kind.

    14. An illegal abortion is to be considered an act of murder.

    15. This act does not apply to species that reproduce by mitosis or asexual reproduction if offspring are never in an unborn or gestating state.



Our lawyers have been eating through this, and have found a legal error in the plan. Make sure all exclusions are lined up with the exclusions listed in other resolutions. The two resolutions(excluding the one we are pushing to repeal as we write) are GAR #128 and GAR #286.

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Postby Elyreia » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:07 pm

Going to be hard to get the consent of rapists, abusers, or the dead.

Elyreia opposes this legislation as no better than the current legislation looking to be repealed.
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Postby Snofjogur » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:10 pm

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:"That'd render abortion fully elective! Although it could be considered, providin' the provisions 'gainst dismemberment and all that are applied, this resolution attempts to, whenever possible, protect the unborn and its momma. Notice that nations whose hahts are hard are allowed to legislate for killin' in the case of rape, too."

Exactly. Abortion should be fully elective. Rape is just one good reason to terminate a pregnancy. “I don’t want to have a baby” is another one.

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:"How would ya'll go 'bout determinin' if the momma's life's in danger if there ain't no doctor or other professional to determine such?"

We believe you misunderstood. We never said there shouldn’t be a professional to determine whether or not the mother-to-be’s life is in danger. We said the opinion of that professional (who should definitely exist) shouldn’t have any bearing on whether abortion is allowed.

To clarify: We believe both parents-to-be (if present) should be the only ones whose decision matters. We believe a health professional should inform both of them of the risks (to both foetus and mother-to-be) of continuing with the pregnancy (if any) and of the risks of terminating it given how advanced it is. We believe the couple (or the pregnant mother-to-be if there is no partner present) should then make an informed decision without needing to give anyone any reasons for said decision. We believe said decision must then be honoured and provided for — with appropriate pregnancy healthcare if they/she choose(s) to continue, and with a qualified medical professional to perform the operation and also post-operation counselling (if needed) if they/she choose(s) to terminate.
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TURTLESHROOM II
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:26 pm

Elyreia wrote:Going to be hard to get the consent of rapists, abusers, or the dead. Elyreia opposes this legislation as no better than the current legislation looking to be repealed.

The New Nordic Union wrote:OOC: Giving rapists the power to make decisions like that seems highly distateful.


IC: "Good catch. Pass 'em up to the vents, I'll revise it now."




13. The consent of all living participants in the initial conception of the unborn shall be required in order to terminate an unborn zygote, fetus, or embryo of any kind, except in the following circumstances:
A) One party to the pregnancy engaged in an act of rape, as defined by the laws of the member state.
B) One party to the pregnancy has commited an act of domestic abuse or violence against the impregnated party, as defined by the laws of the member state.
C) In these circumstances, only the consent of the fertilized party is neccessary to terminate an unborn zygote, fetus, or embryo, unless the provisions of the fourteenth clause are invoked.


14. In the instances where one or more minors have conceived offspring, the explicit, written notification and consent of all living parents or legal guardians over all minors involved is mandatory in order to proceed with the termination of the pregnancy, subject to the exclusionary sub-sections "A" and "B", in the provisions of the thirteenth clause. This clause does not apply to wards of the state, orphans, or offspring of unknown or untracable parents.


{ OOC: The provisions surrounding consent of both the parties in intercourse and consent have been amended. Thank you very much for pointing those out. }
Last edited by TURTLESHROOM II on Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:48 pm

OOC: Much of this duplicates or contradicts GAR #128. If you insist on the entire agenda herein, you'll need to get that one repealed as well.
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Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:51 pm

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: Much of this duplicates or contradicts GAR #128. If you insist on the entire agenda herein, you'll need to get that one repealed as well.

Hatzisland wrote:Our lawyers have been eating through this, and have found a legal error in the plan. Make sure all exclusions are lined up with the exclusions listed in other resolutions. The two resolutions(excluding the one we are pushing to repeal as we write) are GAR #128 and GAR #286.


{ OOC: Thank you. I presume you're referring to a contradiction in Section One, Sub-Section B, which permits abortions in the event of fetal defect based on (IMO) nebulous definitions of pain and eventual lethality? I doubt the WA will be convinced that this can simultaneously replace more than one Resolution, so what, if neccesary, would need to be scrubbed? }
Last edited by TURTLESHROOM II on Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:55 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Araraukar
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Postby Araraukar » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:58 pm

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:so what, if neccesary, would need to be scrubbed?

OOC: All of it, including the repeal attempts. :lol:
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:38 pm

"This is a blatant attempt to restrict abortion under the guise of permitting it. Opposed."

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Postby Naval Monte » Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:33 pm

"While this one acknowledges that there are non-human members in the World Assembly and is a much higher quality to the other draft we still reject it as the original resolution deals with the issue of abortion quite well."
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Kenmoria
Senator
 
Posts: 3713
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:40 am

“Whilst this looks very nice on the first read, it does have a few flaws. Firstly, clause 14 seems unnecessary, as there is no real issue with subdividing crimes into different sections. For example, an illegal abortion was called foeticide when it was illegal in Kenmoria, and I don’t think the foetuses cared.

Clause 13 seems silly in the case of rape or abuse, obviously. Furthermore, if there is a grevious or even evertain risk of death to the mother of the foetus is carried to term, I think she should be allowed to make here own choices.

Clause 9, by mentioning physical attributes, would ban abortions based on severe, life-limiting disabilities, since they are physical attributes. That seems highly unwarranted.

Lastly, clause 5 doesn’t have any exceptions for cases where the life of the mother is at risk, which I find very worrying.

Even of all of those flaws were fixed, as still wouldn’t support this bill. I think the legislation you are trying to replace is superior.”
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
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Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
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The New Bluestocking Homeland
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 9
Founded: Feb 05, 2014
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby The New Bluestocking Homeland » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:06 am

"According to Clause 2, the mother must wait until she's "demonstrably dying" before she can get an abortion? So, women who are experiencing a septic miscarriage -- where the body does not expel the foetus -- may develop fatal complications while they are waiting for permission to abort a foetus with no chance of survival? For that matter, women with pre-eclampsia -- which can develop early -- ought to wait to develop eclampsia?

Clause 5 does not make an exception for medical exemptions, I note :eyebrow:

Clause 7: "partial birth dismemberment"? Is that the medical term, or just an attempt to enforce pro-life emotionalist rhetoric on the WA?

Clause 8 -- "permitted" to allow abortion in instances of rape, but not compelled? Leaving women to suffer the consequences of a trauma already beyond endurance with nothing but milky tea and milkier sympathy, if her nation is so inclined?

Clause 13 -- Well, that's basically allowing males to control women's bodies, isn't it? And there's no exception for medical circumstances... Why should a woman -- doomed to die as the result of a dangerous pregnancy -- have to seek permission to remove the foetus that will kill her?

Clause 16 -- Criminalising desperate women? [OOC: Clauses 15 and 16 are out of order]

Even if every one of these clauses were amended or removed: opposed. #286 is far more thorough. This merely attempts to heavily restrict abortion under another name."
Last edited by The New Bluestocking Homeland on Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Hatzisland
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 46
Founded: Feb 05, 2019
New York Times Democracy

Postby Hatzisland » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:22 am

TURTLESHROOM II wrote:
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: Much of this duplicates or contradicts GAR #128. If you insist on the entire agenda herein, you'll need to get that one repealed as well.

Hatzisland wrote:Our lawyers have been eating through this, and have found a legal error in the plan. Make sure all exclusions are lined up with the exclusions listed in other resolutions. The two resolutions(excluding the one we are pushing to repeal as we write) are GAR #128 and GAR #286.


{ OOC: Thank you. I presume you're referring to a contradiction in Section One, Sub-Section B, which permits abortions in the event of fetal defect based on (IMO) nebulous definitions of pain and eventual lethality? I doubt the WA will be convinced that this can simultaneously replace more than one Resolution, so what, if neccesary, would need to be scrubbed? }


Section 2. You have not listed all the exclusions to abortion regulation, and it wouldn't have to be listed anyway, because the two plans I was speaking of already set standards. You should review these before you continue editing.

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TURTLESHROOM II
Minister
 
Posts: 2675
Founded: Dec 08, 2014
Moralistic Democracy

Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:17 am

Separatist Peoples wrote:"This is a blatant attempt to restrict abortion under the guise of permitting it. Opposed."


[IC]

There was a pause in the vents for a moment.

"Yeah, prohibitin' dismem-buh-ment and mandatin' babies that survive abortions be rescusitated sure is somethin' worth opposin, ain't it?"
Last edited by TURTLESHROOM II on Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nothing wrong with [that] when you have year round tumblr attendance.
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TURTLESHROOM II
Minister
 
Posts: 2675
Founded: Dec 08, 2014
Moralistic Democracy

Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:38 am

The New Bluestocking Homeland wrote:"According to Clause 2, the mother must wait until she's "demonstrably dying" before she can get an abortion? So, women who are experiencing a septic miscarriage -- where the body does not expel the foetus -- may develop fatal complications while they are waiting for permission to abort a foetus with no chance of survival? For that matter, women with pre-eclampsia -- which can develop early -- ought to wait to develop eclampsia?


"By 'demonstratable', it's referrin' to the professional opinion of a doctuh that she's gone die, not that the fertilized woman must actually be dyin'. So, for example, your situation would absolutely be a case where the killin' would be permissible."

Kenmoria wrote:Clause 5 does not make an exception for medical exemptions, I note :eyebrow:


"That's covered elsewhere."

Kenmoria wrote:Clause 7: "partial birth dismemberment"? Is that the medical term, or just an attempt to enforce pro-life emotionalist rhetoric on the WA?


"I take you ain't aware of how late, third-trimester abortions and partial-birth abortions are performed. Dismemberment is a medical and legal term and requires severin' limbs, organs, and what-not. Partial-borth abortions require dismemberment."

Kenmoria wrote:Clause 8 -- "permitted" to allow abortion in instances of rape, but not compelled? Leaving women to suffer the consequences of a trauma already beyond endurance with nothing but milky tea and milkier sympathy, if her nation is so inclined?


"The offspring is innocent. The hahts of too many nations are too hard to protect the kid"

Kenmoria wrote:Clause 13 -- Well, that's basically allowing males to control women's bodies, isn't it?


"Y'all forget that it akes two to tango. It's his kid too. Unless rape or abuse, or somethin' like it, and so on, is a factor, he has a say because he's an equal participant."

Kenmoria wrote: And there's no exception for medical circumstances... Why should a woman -- doomed to die as the result of a dangerous pregnancy -- have to seek permission to remove the foetus that will kill her?


"This is covered elsewhere. Endangerment of the momma's life is explicitly a permissible justification for killin' the child."

Kenmoria wrote:Clause 16 -- Criminalising desperate women?


"Elective abortion ain't no act of desparation. Acts of desparation are covered throughout this resolution, includin' rape and endangerment of the momma, and so on and so forth. Furthermore, no membuh state's compelled to ban killin' the product of rape. The resolution explicitly permits membuh states to decide what punishment, if any, is given to the momma in the case of an illegal abortion."
Jesus loves you and died for you!
World Factbook
First Constitution
Legation Quarter
"NOOKULAR" STOCKPILE: 821,333. General Long denied access.
RWHS wrote:
BF wrote:Especially when we have the annual stormfront migrations.

Nothing wrong with [that] when you have year round tumblr attendance.
DEFCON: Suspended.
Second Constitutional Convention pending.
News ticker (updated 1/31/2018 AD):
FINAL DEATH TOLL: 1001993 rioters, 101342 soldiers, 9112 cops, 311500 civilians (includes foreign intervention)
PEACE AT LAST: TURTLESHROOM CIVIL WAR ENDS ON OCTOBER 12TH, 2018 AD, FIRST TURTLESHROOMIAN STATE DISSOLVED

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TURTLESHROOM II
Minister
 
Posts: 2675
Founded: Dec 08, 2014
Moralistic Democracy

Postby TURTLESHROOM II » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:54 am

Kenmoria wrote:“Whilst this looks very nice on the first read, it does have a few flaws. Firstly, clause 14 seems unnecessary, as there is no real issue with subdividing crimes into different sections. For example, an illegal abortion was called foeticide when it was illegal in Kenmoria, and I don’t think the foetuses cared.


"Clause Fourteen concerns parental consent."

Kenmoria wrote:Clause 13 seems silly in the case of rape or abuse, obviously. Furthermore, if there is a grevious or even evertain risk of death to the mother of the foetus is carried to term, I think she should be allowed to make here own choices/


"Clause Thirteen explicitly states that the father's consent ain't needed to kill the kid if the kid was conceived in rape or the momma was abused."

Kenmoria wrote:Clause 9, by mentioning physical attributes, would ban abortions based on severe, life-limiting disabilities, since they are physical attributes. That seems highly unwarranted.


"Why should a kid be killed just 'cause he MIGHT die young or MIGHT be incapacitated? Why should we be in the business of determinin' what fetus is too crippled to live? Don't they deserve a chance?"

Kenmoria wrote:Lastly, clause 5 doesn’t have any exceptions for cases where the life of the mother is at risk, which I find very worrying.


"Pass it up through the vents. I'll make a clarification. Thanks for pointin' it out."
Jesus loves you and died for you!
World Factbook
First Constitution
Legation Quarter
"NOOKULAR" STOCKPILE: 821,333. General Long denied access.
RWHS wrote:
BF wrote:Especially when we have the annual stormfront migrations.

Nothing wrong with [that] when you have year round tumblr attendance.
DEFCON: Suspended.
Second Constitutional Convention pending.
News ticker (updated 1/31/2018 AD):
FINAL DEATH TOLL: 1001993 rioters, 101342 soldiers, 9112 cops, 311500 civilians (includes foreign intervention)
PEACE AT LAST: TURTLESHROOM CIVIL WAR ENDS ON OCTOBER 12TH, 2018 AD, FIRST TURTLESHROOMIAN STATE DISSOLVED

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Kyoki Chudoku
Diplomat
 
Posts: 555
Founded: Apr 28, 2017
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Kyoki Chudoku » Fri Feb 15, 2019 4:59 am

Tokiko sighed as she examined the resolution. Naosu, the hesd of medical affairs, was no less exasperated, though showed it through furrowed brows. Tokiko spoke first. ”I doubt the prerequisite for this proposal will ever come to pass, but aside from that, all I can give are personal comments. Naosu, you’re up.”

Naosu stepped forward. Her voice was clinical and cold, muffled slightly by her sickness mask. ”Thank you. In the eyes of Chudokuren medical professionals, an unwanted foetus at any stage of development is effectively an internal parasite. Therefore, its removal, while providing some medical risks, is perfectly acceptable under our ethical guidelines. It does not matter if such a parasite feels pain any more than it matters that, for instance, a mosquito feels pain upon being swatted. Individuals should not be caused unnecessary pain, trauma and suffering as a result of unfortunate accidents. To force them do so is tantamount to mandating torture, an act with which this assembly generally has a passionate disagreement.”
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