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[SUBMIT] Repeal: Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

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Heraswed
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[SUBMIT] Repeal: Liberate Confederation of Corrupt Dictators

Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:38 am

The Security Council,

    Noting the political diversity of the World Assembly,

    Understanding that many nations are opposed to the existence of a region devoted to dictatorship,

    Further noting the wide range of political ideologies within the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators including but not limited to:

      Communism,

      Centrism,

      Conservatism,

      Fascism,

      Despotic Socialism,

    Asserting that of common qualities of a Fascist state the CCD is only in alignment with Authoritarianism,

    Therefore Believing that there is not sufficient evidence to condemn the CCD as 'Fascist',

    Noting with confusion that the language of SC#263 is not that of a liberation but that of a condemnation and,

    Confused that this resolution was not submitted as such.

    Therefore doubting the sincerity of SC#263,

    Acknowledging the definition of a liberation resolution as a resolution to ‘strike down delegate-imposed barriers to free entry to a region’,

    Noting with concern that the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators neither had a password nor was it at risk of password-protection,

    Recognising that the Confederation of Corrupt Dictators did, and still does, possess an executive founder,

    Further recognising that this fact was acknowledged within SC#263,

    Believing that the aforementioned states of affairs render SC#263 pointless, unjust and misplaced,

    Hereby repeals SC#263.

Any suggestions are appreciated.
Last edited by Wrapper on Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:26 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Qwabour Harbour
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Postby Qwabour Harbour » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:28 am

While I think the purpose of the liberation is stupid (how will you raid the CCD???????), I can't really support a proposal that allows a fascist region off the hook.

Also, the last clause is irrelevant

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Blood Wine
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Postby Blood Wine » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:33 am

Opposed

also rule 3 violation, "hereby declares" is not an operative clause
3. Your proposal must contain an operative clause stating what the proposal actually does, e.g. commends, condemns, liberates, or repeals.
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:35 am

Aside from the illegality (r3), support, obviously.
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Heraswed
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Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:35 am

Blood Wine wrote:Opposed

also rule 3 violation, "hereby declares" is not an operative clause
3. Your proposal must contain an operative clause stating what the proposal actually does, e.g. commends, condemns, liberates, or repeals.


Ok I've changed out the theatrics for legality.

Edit: Can I get a reason?
Last edited by Heraswed on Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:37 am

Qwabour Harbour wrote:While I think the purpose of the liberation is stupid (how will you raid the CCD???????), I can't really support a proposal that allows a fascist region off the hook.

Also, the last clause is irrelevant


I'm not sure what you mean, the CCD is not 'on the hook' by being liberated, SC#263 has done nothing to the CCD. Furthermore, the CCD is not fascist. The tag of 'fascist' is intended to indicate the nations which are welcomed to the region.
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Postby Qwabour Harbour » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:52 am

Heraswed wrote:
Qwabour Harbour wrote:While I think the purpose of the liberation is stupid (how will you raid the CCD???????), I can't really support a proposal that allows a fascist region off the hook.

Also, the last clause is irrelevant


I'm not sure what you mean, the CCD is not 'on the hook' by being liberated, SC#263 has done nothing to the CCD. Furthermore, the CCD is not fascist. The tag of 'fascist' is intended to indicate the nations which are welcomed to the region.

It is literally supporting regions with fascist in their name and have an embassy with Nazi Europa, and say fascism is abundant in the WFE.

:thonk:

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Qwabour Harbour
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Postby Qwabour Harbour » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:54 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Aside from the illegality (r3), support, obviously.

You're supporting this resolution? Its complete trash and says that it supports fascism AND communism is one of the reasons. It just shows that you are supporting fascism, by defending Northern Redlands (previously).

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Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 4:57 am

Qwabour Harbour wrote:
Heraswed wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean, the CCD is not 'on the hook' by being liberated, SC#263 has done nothing to the CCD. Furthermore, the CCD is not fascist. The tag of 'fascist' is intended to indicate the nations which are welcomed to the region.

It is literally supporting regions with fascist in their name and have an embassy with Nazi Europa, and say fascism is abundant in the WFE.

:thonk:


Literally one of the points in the resolution is that the World Assembly shouldn't dictate what ideologies are acceptable. SC#38
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Postby Armaros » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:04 am

Heraswed wrote:
Qwabour Harbour wrote:While I think the purpose of the liberation is stupid (how will you raid the CCD???????), I can't really support a proposal that allows a fascist region off the hook.

Also, the last clause is irrelevant


I'm not sure what you mean, the CCD is not 'on the hook' by being liberated, SC#263 has done nothing to the CCD. Furthermore, the CCD is not fascist. The tag of 'fascist' is intended to indicate the nations which are welcomed to the region.

Because they totally didn't ally themselves with Nazis. No, let's rewrite some history eh? Also, by now you folks should figure that fascists are not symphatised with in the SC.

EDIT: Also, to Qwarbour Harbour: while I disagree with the classification of Northern Redlands as actually "fascist", you are completely correct in regards to GVH's past with defending fascists.
Last edited by Armaros on Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Armaros » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:05 am

Heraswed wrote:
Qwabour Harbour wrote:It is literally supporting regions with fascist in their name and have an embassy with Nazi Europa, and say fascism is abundant in the WFE.

:thonk:


Literally one of the points in the resolution is that the World Assembly shouldn't dictate what ideologies are acceptable. SC#38

"Interregional peace and goodwill". Fascists are against both of those.
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Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:11 am

Armaros wrote:
Heraswed wrote:
Literally one of the points in the resolution is that the World Assembly shouldn't dictate what ideologies are acceptable. SC#38

"Interregional peace and goodwill". Fascists are against both of those.


Many religions don't desire "Interregional peace and goodwill" with infidels.
Communists often see the world as plotting their downfall, leading to anything but "Interregional peace and goodwill".

Yet freedom of religion is protected and there is far less hate against Communist nations than against Fascist nations

Besides, you didn't address my point.
Last edited by Heraswed on Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:14 am

Qwabour Harbour wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Aside from the illegality (r3), support, obviously.

You're supporting this resolution? Its complete trash and says that it supports fascism AND communism is one of the reasons. It just shows that you are supporting fascism, by defending Northern Redlands (previously).

CCD isn't a fascist region so your point is kind of moot.
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Postby Armaros » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:19 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Qwabour Harbour wrote:You're supporting this resolution? Its complete trash and says that it supports fascism AND communism is one of the reasons. It just shows that you are supporting fascism, by defending Northern Redlands (previously).

CCD isn't a fascist region so your point is kind of moot.

BWAHAHAHAHA.

See my post above for the opposite. CCD is most definitely fascist. Trying to deny that is just plain stupid.
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Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:21 am

Armaros wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:CCD isn't a fascist region so your point is kind of moot.

BWAHAHAHAHA.

See my post above for the opposite. CCD is most definitely fascist. Trying to deny that is just plain stupid.


As far as I can see, you've not actually made any points about why the CCD is fascist, just some random rambling.

But even so, I refer you to SC#38, cited in the resolution.
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Postby Armaros » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:28 am

Heraswed wrote:
Armaros wrote:"Interregional peace and goodwill". Fascists are against both of those.


Many religions don't desire "Interregional peace and goodwill" with infidels.
Communists often see the world as plotting their downfall, leading to anything but "Interregional peace and goodwill".

Yet freedom of religion is protected and there is far less hate against Communist nations than against Fascist nations

Besides, you didn't address my point.

Simply put, because fascists are far more vocal in their opinion on anything but themselves. Aside from that, because fascism is a far more hateful ideology then communism. And before someone starts screaming "communist pig": no, I'm not communist, nor am I saying it's a great ideology.

As for addressing the point: what point are you even trying to get across? That people should not act against a hateful ideology because it would be "ideological warfare"? What a load of bullshit.

Also, working with real life nazis is okay to you? Thank you for making clear what kind of person you are. That and they only work together with fascists, have a fascist tag and encourage fascism.
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Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:37 am

Armaros wrote:
Heraswed wrote:
Many religions don't desire "Interregional peace and goodwill" with infidels.
Communists often see the world as plotting their downfall, leading to anything but "Interregional peace and goodwill".

Yet freedom of religion is protected and there is far less hate against Communist nations than against Fascist nations

Besides, you didn't address my point.

Simply put, because fascists are far more vocal in their opinion on anything but themselves. Aside from that, because fascism is a far more hateful ideology then communism. And before someone starts screaming "communist pig": no, I'm not communist, nor am I saying it's a great ideology.

As for addressing the point: what point are you even trying to get across? That people should not act against a hateful ideology because it would be "ideological warfare"? What a load of bullshit.

Also, working with real life nazis is okay to you? Thank you for making clear what kind of person you are. That and they only work together with fascists, have a fascist tag and encourage fascism.


There, a good point. But since the CCD isn't fascist it is moot.

The point I am trying to get across is that there is a precedent within the SC of not using the ideology of a nation as pure justification for actions against said nation within the SC. Again, read SC#38.

I am sure that very few of the people behind nations of the CCD are actual Nazis, given that most of this game is roleplay-based. Furthermore, don't you dare make assumptions about my character based on what I do within this game.

Finally, an association with an ideology is not membership of that ideology, the only corresponding characteristic between Fascism and the Government of the CCD is the authoritarian government style. There is no desire for world domination from the government of the CCD and the idea of racial superiority or purity is not bandied about at all.
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sun Feb 03, 2019 5:43 am

Armaros wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:CCD isn't a fascist region so your point is kind of moot.

BWAHAHAHAHA.

See my post above for the opposite. CCD is most definitely fascist. Trying to deny that is just plain stupid.

What qualifies you to make such an accusation? Do you...actually know any more than the usual people accusing them of being fascists?
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Postby Armaros » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:02 am

Heraswed wrote:
Armaros wrote:Simply put, because fascists are far more vocal in their opinion on anything but themselves. Aside from that, because fascism is a far more hateful ideology then communism. And before someone starts screaming "communist pig": no, I'm not communist, nor am I saying it's a great ideology.

As for addressing the point: what point are you even trying to get across? That people should not act against a hateful ideology because it would be "ideological warfare"? What a load of bullshit.

Also, working with real life nazis is okay to you? Thank you for making clear what kind of person you are. That and they only work together with fascists, have a fascist tag and encourage fascism.


There, a good point. But since the CCD isn't fascist it is moot.

Any evidence for that? You keep claiming it's not, but I haven't seen a single thread of evidence to the contrary.

The point I am trying to get across is that there is a precedent within the SC of not using the ideology of a nation as pure justification for actions against said nation within the SC. Again, read SC#38.

that "precedent" was years ago, at the very beginning of the SC. That is no more, as proven by all of the recently passed offensively liberations.

I am sure that very few of the people behind nations of the CCD are actual Nazis, given that most of this game is roleplay-based. Furthermore, don't you dare make assumptions about my character based on what I do within this game.

Oh, undoubtedly most are just roleplayers. It's their affiliation with Nazi Europa and the other fascist shitholes.

Finally, an association with an ideology is not membership of that ideology, the only corresponding characteristic between Fascism and the Government of the CCD is the authoritarian government style. There is no desire for world domination from the government of the CCD and the idea of racial superiority or purity is not bandied about at all.

It's more about the people in the region who adhere to fascism and their loud proclamation about it.
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Postby Doing it Rightland » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:06 am

I've got to give my support. The Liberation, while a nice attempt, is rather toothless. If people want to condemn the fascists, then condemn the fascists. But the liberation was trying to condemn without actually condemning (which in my opinion is cowardly).
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Postby Caracasus » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:20 am

Very recently Jocospur opened a thread in moderation regarding their region being called nazis and fascistd. They were given some advice as to how to avoid that. Cheifly to close embassies with fascist regions and provide better disclaimers regarding their actual stance on fascism. As far as I am aware they haven't. While Jocospur seemed willing to work with others, unfortunately Shrewlama vetoed the idea. Apart from an insight into who actually runs CoCD, the discussion was fruitless.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=458438

As far as I am concerned I am very much against this. If anything the very venement rejection of perfectly reasonable solutions made in good faith kind of leads me to believe that there is a pretty strong fascist contingent in CoCD.
Last edited by Caracasus on Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Qwabour Harbour
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Postby Qwabour Harbour » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:24 am

It is puzzling to me that people claim the CCD is not fascist. In the WFE itself, it states that you can find fascism here.

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Blood Wine
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Postby Blood Wine » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:47 am

Heraswed wrote:
Blood Wine wrote:Opposed

also rule 3 violation, "hereby declares" is not an operative clause


Ok I've changed out the theatrics for legality.

Edit: Can I get a reason?


Nazi's, do i need to say more?
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Heraswed
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Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:47 am

Armaros wrote:
Heraswed wrote:
There, a good point. But since the CCD isn't fascist it is moot.

Any evidence for that? You keep claiming it's not, but I haven't seen a single thread of evidence to the contrary.

The point I am trying to get across is that there is a precedent within the SC of not using the ideology of a nation as pure justification for actions against said nation within the SC. Again, read SC#38.

that "precedent" was years ago, at the very beginning of the SC. That is no more, as proven by all of the recently passed offensively liberations.

I am sure that very few of the people behind nations of the CCD are actual Nazis, given that most of this game is roleplay-based. Furthermore, don't you dare make assumptions about my character based on what I do within this game.

Oh, undoubtedly most are just roleplayers. It's their affiliation with Nazi Europa and the other fascist shitholes.

Finally, an association with an ideology is not membership of that ideology, the only corresponding characteristic between Fascism and the Government of the CCD is the authoritarian government style. There is no desire for world domination from the government of the CCD and the idea of racial superiority or purity is not bandied about at all.

It's more about the people in the region who adhere to fascism and their loud proclamation about it.


Given that, in the original resolution, (the target of this draft) the assertion is that the CCD is fascist, the burden of proof is to prove that the CCD is fascist, not for me to prove it isn't. Similarly this burden lies with many on this thread.

I'm going to make this extremely clear. I do not, I have have, nor will I ever approve of Fascism as an ideology. However, what I have heard from you here is the exactly the hostility faced by many fascist nations on this site, which leads to them, inevitably, banding together. There are entire raiding campaigns the goals thereof are to destroy any and all fascist regions. Having embassies with them is a practical defensive measure. That is why they're affiliated with the 'fascist shitholes'.

Can I get some examples of purely ideologically driven resolutions, since that is the crux of the argument? And on another point,

I've read on many occasions, the RMB of the CCD and I have yet to find any recurring trend of nations declaring their fascist ideology or fascist ideals. Can you provide examples?
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Postby Heraswed » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:49 am

Qwabour Harbour wrote:It is puzzling to me that people claim the CCD is not fascist. In the WFE itself, it states that you can find fascism here.


Because that's the fallacy of composition, just because something is true of one of its parts, does not mean that it is true of the whole.
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