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Ukraine Has Not Yet Voted-Round 3(The Rada Runaround)

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Who do you support?

Servant of the People
7
39%
OP-FL
4
22%
European Solidarity
2
11%
Fatherland
0
No votes
Strength and Honour
1
6%
Civil Position
0
No votes
Holos
2
11%
Radicals
1
6%
OB-PMR
1
6%
Self Reliance
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 18

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Shrillland
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Ukraine Has Not Yet Voted-Round 3(The Rada Runaround)

Postby Shrillland » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:14 pm

Yes, this thread is back up and running...as you can see, the OP has been completely renovated and replaced, for now we're discussing the incoming Rada(parliamentary)election. As soon as President Volodymyr Zelensky took office, his first job was to dissolve the Rada and call for early election despite them being scheduled for October anyway. Zelensky also proposed overhauling the electoral system on Wednesday, May 22, to become a full open-list PR country, but the Rada rejected it before dissolution.

So, the Rada election has officially been scheduled for July 21. There are 424 seats up for grabs(technically, there's 450 seats, but 26 of them are currently under Russian/Separatist occupation and don't count). 225 seats are chosen in a national open-list PR district using Hamilton Quota with a threshold of 5%. The remaining 199 seats(technically 225, see above) are FPTP single-member districts.

So, let's meet the ten largest parties that are running, shall we?

Servant of the People(Sluha Narodu) led by Current President Volodymyr Zelensky: Big Tent, Libertarian, Anti-Corruption, Populist, Pro-European

Opposition Platform - For Life(OP-FL) led by Yuriy Boyko(Vadim Rabinovich leads in Rada): Centre-left, Pro-Russian, Eurosceptic, Social Democratic, Social Liberal

European Solidarity(Formerly Petro Poroshenko Bloc) led by Petro Poroshenko: Centre-right, Pro-European, Liberal Conservative, Civic Nationalist

All-Ukrainian Union "Fatherland" led by Yulia Tymoshenko: Centre-right, Conservative, Populist, Pro-European

Strength and Honour led by acting leader Gen. of the Army Oleksandr Kikhtenko: Centre-right, Conservative

Civil Position led by Anatoliy Hrytsenko: Centrist, Liberal, Conservative, Pro-European

Voice(Holos) led by Svyatoslav Vakarchuk(lead singer of rock band Okean Elzy): Centre-right, Social Democratic, Pro-European, Liberal

Radical Party of Oleh Lyashko led by Oleh Lyashko: Fiscally Centre-Left, Socially Right to Far Right, Right Nationalism, Right Populism, Soft Eurosceptic

Opposition Bloc - Party for Peace and Development(OB-PMR) led bu Borys Kolesnikov: Centrist, Pro-Russian, Social Liberal

Self Reliance led by Andriy Sadovyi: Centre-right, Liberal Conservative, Pro-European

So, who do you support in this race, NSG?

I, personally, am standing with Zelensky. I want to see what his party can do to bring Ukraine up from the depths and if they can stand up to Putin without getting engulfed.
Last edited by Shrillland on Sat May 25, 2019 12:19 am, edited 7 times in total.
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The of Japan
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Postby The of Japan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:17 pm

If I had to vote for one, I would probably vote for Anatoly Hrytsenko.

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Eternal Lotharia
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Postby Eternal Lotharia » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:26 pm

Tymoshenko and Zelensky both personally are promising to me, from those descriptions.
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Sneudal
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Postby Sneudal » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:39 pm

After reading your info on the candidates, i'd abstain from voting.

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Shrillland
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Postby Shrillland » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:44 pm

Sneudal wrote:After reading your info on the candidates, i'd abstain from voting.


I was as accurate as I could be. Eastern European elections are always messy affairs with almost no one that we in the West would unequivocally support. But I put Ukraine up because of its significance.
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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:28 pm

Shrillland wrote:You may be tired of seeing yet another election thread, but the next few months have several major countries with votes coming up. A big one coming up on March 31 is the Ukrainian Presidential Election(the Rada election isn't until October), and with the nation being the latest battleground in the endless struggle of East vs. West, this is an election many are watching. Will Petro Poroshenko get a second term as president? Will Tymoshenko return to Kiev with a vengeance? Will the Russians bring in a candidate of their own? Well, we'll find out on March 31 and April 21 as well, since no candidate is likely to get a majority in the first round. So, who's running? There are, in fact, over two dozen candidates for president, so we're just going to look at the top six that are most likely to get to Round 2.

Yulia Tymoshenko - Fatherland

The former PM and hero of the Orange Revolution is making her second attempt at winning the presidency having lost in 2010 to pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych(who immediately had her thrown in jail for charges now considered to be a political farce). Her Fatherland Party is known for being centre-right populist and pro-Western/pro-European. She's made quite a few promises that seem fairly extreme on the campaign trail including quadrupling salaries and pensions to match those of Poland and cutting interest rates to those found in Western Europe. She also promises to bring Crimea and the disputed Donbass oblasts back into the fold, but she hasn't quite explained how. Polls in Ukraine are iffy at best, but she is averaging first place at about 21% and doing better among women than men.

Petro Poroshenko - Petro Poroshenko Bloc

The current Ukrainian president, many consider Poroshenko an oligarch from the ground up, and some see him as a CIA plant. He also served as a Foreign Minister under Tymoshenko and is still owner and president of the Roshen Candy Company and Kanal 5, a Ukrainian news channel. One of his star promises, an independent Ukrainian Orthodox church, has been fulfilled this month, and he's also pushing to strengthen the Ukrainian military and expand the use of the Ukrainian language, particularly in the more Russified east of the country. His centre-right bloc proposes building a new public TV station(Ukraine's last one folded in 2014 after Euromaidan and the Russian advances), privatising Ukraine's coal industry, and eventual EU and NATO membership(Poroshenko said in late January that Ukraine could apply for both in 2024). He's currently averaging 13%, which puts him at a jockeying for second with out next candidate.

Volodymyr Zelensky - Servant of the People

Zelensky is a TV satirist that's best known for the show that gives his party its name, in which, ironically, a high school teacher who rails against corruption is unexpectedly elected president. One of his films, Love in the Big City 2, was actually banned in Ukraine in 2018 since it was partially shot in Russia and made by a Russian-owned subsidiary of his own production company, Kvartel 95. He still receives Russian royalties from previous films and TV shows, and he also co-owns three Russian firms through a Cypriot middle-man company. His party and his campaign aren't too specific on being left or right, but he is known to be pro-Western and a Euromaidan supporter, and he's made has campaign primarily about fighting Ukraine's endemic corruption and oligarchy despite the fact that he's been endorsed by former Dnipropetrovsk Governor and current FC Dnipro owner Ihor Kolomoyskyi, considered to be one of the worst oligarchs of the lot. In spite of this, Zelensky is polling at roughly 13.5% giving him a tie for second.

Oleh Lyashko - Radical Party

Despite spending time in prison for embezzlment, which some have claimed was politically motivated since he was a reporter for the Ministry of Foreign Economic Affairs' in-house newspaper at the time, he was eventually released under a 1995 amnesty and became a Rada deputy in 2006, first in the Tymoshenko Bloc and later in the ultra-nationalist Radicals. He's been a highly controversial deputy, admitting to leading the storming of a local government building with the Lyashko Battalion "Ukraine", which is something of a private militia. He ran for president in 2014 and got third place. Later that year, he proposed an anti-Russian bill that outlawed the Communist Party of Ukraine and the Party of Regions and mandated the death penalty for saboteurs including those who take part in pro-Russian or pro-separatist rallies. He also got assaulted by another major candidate in this year's vote whom you'll meet a little later after calling the candidate a Kremlin agent. He's a right-wing nationalist that supports ending the war in Donbass by force, and his party has advocated to renounce the Non-Proliferation Treaty and arm Ukraine with nuclear weapons. In fiscal issues, he's fairly left-wing supporting things like a tenfold increase in the health budget, opening primary health centres in every village, lowering payroll taxes and reforming land sales. He's in fourth averaging 9.5%

Anatoly Hrytsenko - Civil Position

Hrytsenko is a former Minister of Defence under both Tymoshenko and Yanukovych, and he served in both the Red Air Force and the Ukrainian Air Force from 1979-2004. He was elected to the Rada in 2012 as a member of Fatherland, but he left the party and the Rada in 2014 due to irreconcilable differences. He ran for President that same year and came in fourth place. Despite Civil Position's earlier statements that the Donbass should be retaken by frorce, Hrytsenko now proposes a UN peacekeeping force in the region. He also wants to reorganise the Ukrainian army by cutting the number of generals and bringing training and staff standards up to NATO guidelines in preparation for joining the organisation. He's also a law-and-order conservative who has the support of many anti-corruption watchdogs. He's currently in fifth place averaging 9%.

Yuriy Boyko - Opposition Platform - For Life

Boyko served as energy minister and chairman of Ukraine's state-run oil and gas corporation under Yanukovych(both as president and PM) and fell from grace in 2011 after a newspaper investigation accused him of fraud. After the Euromaidan protests and the Russian advances, the Pro-Russian Boyko became a prominent leader in the Pro-Russian, and Anti-Western Opposition Bloc. Despite his support of rapprochement with Moscow, he assaulted a Deputy in 2016 when that Deputy accused him of being a Kremlin agent in the Rada. That deputy's name...Oleh Lyashko. So...yeah. Both Boyko and the splinter of the Opposition Bloc(the party broke up late last year) are mostly based in the Russian east and friendlier relations are the main theme of this centre-left, social democratic party. The party platform supports social justice and opposes predatory nationalism. He's in sixth place with a 7.5% average.

So, NSG, who do you stand with?

For me, Eastern Europe is always a mess because you can't hardly find a pro-Western social democratic party. If it wasn't for Boyko cozying up to Putin, I'd say he was all right. As it is, I have to stand with the old defender of Democracy, Yulia Tymoshenko despite my disagreements with some of her domestic stances.


Poroshenko is an absolute disaster. But he also stole a tad too much, so his death in case of him losing the election, might be imminent as his opponents divide his loot among themselves, meaning that he'll do whatever it takes to stay in power. His drunk escapades are an embarrassment in Eastern Europe, he failed to fulfill a single campaign promise, and anyone, short of a Neo-Nazi or Azov fanboy would be better than Poroshenko. Furthermore, his independent Ukrainian Church promise has only been fulfilled in his idiotic mind, as most of Orthodox Churches did not recognize it, plan to have no deals with it, and like everything Poroshenko touches with the exception of his Cayman Accounts, it's likely to be broke fairly soon. It was also fun to watch France and Germany back Russia's side in the Kerch Dispute, while that moron engaged in mental gymnastics.

Zelensky - he might actually turn out to be competent, but I don't know much about him.

Lyashko - perhaps the only candidate as incompetent as Poroshenko. His promises fail on paper, and will hilariously fail in real life, if he's elected. Honestly, if Poroshenko or Lyashko win, I could see a partition of Ukraine.

Hrystenko - like Zelensky, he could be a decent candidate.

Boyko - might actually be the only one who can unite the country. However, because he's not an insane nationalist, and because he served with Yanukovich, he's viewed as pro-Russian, which is going to get nationalists' panties twisted in a bunch.

Timoshenko - ahhh yes, the eternal political survivor, the gassy princess, Yulia Timoshenko. The good news - she's a realist. The bad news - she's easy to bribe.

Overall rankings:

0. Putin (c'mon dude, just do it - believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything)
1. Boyko (for actually standing up to insane nationalists)
2. Hrystenko (might bring all sides together, or might lack the willpower)
3. Zelensky (chance, hope, dope)
4. Timoshenko (at least she understand reality)
5. Poroshenko (disastrous drunkard, but not Neo-Nazi)
6. Lyashko (idiot, who, at the very least, will end up destroying Ukraine's army through idiotic advances and reforms)
Last edited by Shofercia on Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The of Japan
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Postby The of Japan » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:30 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Shrillland wrote:You may be tired of seeing yet another election thread, but the next few months have several major countries with votes coming up. A big one coming up on March 31 is the Ukrainian Presidential Election(the Rada election isn't until October), and with the nation being the latest battleground in the endless struggle of East vs. West, this is an election many are watching. Will Petro Poroshenko get a second term as president? Will Tymoshenko return to Kiev with a vengeance? Will the Russians bring in a candidate of their own? Well, we'll find out on March 31 and April 21 as well, since no candidate is likely to get a majority in the first round. So, who's running? There are, in fact, over two dozen candidates for president, so we're just going to look at the top six that are most likely to get to Round 2.

Yulia Tymoshenko - Fatherland

The former PM and hero of the Orange Revolution is making her second attempt at winning the presidency having lost in 2010 to pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych(who immediately had her thrown in jail for charges now considered to be a political farce). Her Fatherland Party is known for being centre-right populist and pro-Western/pro-European. She's made quite a few promises that seem fairly extreme on the campaign trail including quadrupling salaries and pensions to match those of Poland and cutting interest rates to those found in Western Europe. She also promises to bring Crimea and the disputed Donbass oblasts back into the fold, but she hasn't quite explained how. Polls in Ukraine are iffy at best, but she is averaging first place at about 21% and doing better among women than men.

Petro Poroshenko - Petro Poroshenko Bloc

The current Ukrainian president, many consider Poroshenko an oligarch from the ground up, and some see him as a CIA plant. He also served as a Foreign Minister under Tymoshenko and is still owner and president of the Roshen Candy Company and Kanal 5, a Ukrainian news channel. One of his star promises, an independent Ukrainian Orthodox church, has been fulfilled this month, and he's also pushing to strengthen the Ukrainian military and expand the use of the Ukrainian language, particularly in the more Russified east of the country. His centre-right bloc proposes building a new public TV station(Ukraine's last one folded in 2014 after Euromaidan and the Russian advances), privatising Ukraine's coal industry, and eventual EU and NATO membership(Poroshenko said in late January that Ukraine could apply for both in 2024). He's currently averaging 13%, which puts him at a jockeying for second with out next candidate.

Volodymyr Zelensky - Servant of the People

Zelensky is a TV satirist that's best known for the show that gives his party its name, in which, ironically, a high school teacher who rails against corruption is unexpectedly elected president. One of his films, Love in the Big City 2, was actually banned in Ukraine in 2018 since it was partially shot in Russia and made by a Russian-owned subsidiary of his own production company, Kvartel 95. He still receives Russian royalties from previous films and TV shows, and he also co-owns three Russian firms through a Cypriot middle-man company. His party and his campaign aren't too specific on being left or right, but he is known to be pro-Western and a Euromaidan supporter, and he's made has campaign primarily about fighting Ukraine's endemic corruption and oligarchy despite the fact that he's been endorsed by former Dnipropetrovsk Governor and current FC Dnipro owner Ihor Kolomoyskyi, considered to be one of the worst oligarchs of the lot. In spite of this, Zelensky is polling at roughly 13.5% giving him a tie for second.

Oleh Lyashko - Radical Party

Despite spending time in prison for embezzlment, which some have claimed was politically motivated since he was a reporter for the Ministry of Foreign Economic Affairs' in-house newspaper at the time, he was eventually released under a 1995 amnesty and became a Rada deputy in 2006, first in the Tymoshenko Bloc and later in the ultra-nationalist Radicals. He's been a highly controversial deputy, admitting to leading the storming of a local government building with the Lyashko Battalion "Ukraine", which is something of a private militia. He ran for president in 2014 and got third place. Later that year, he proposed an anti-Russian bill that outlawed the Communist Party of Ukraine and the Party of Regions and mandated the death penalty for saboteurs including those who take part in pro-Russian or pro-separatist rallies. He also got assaulted by another major candidate in this year's vote whom you'll meet a little later after calling the candidate a Kremlin agent. He's a right-wing nationalist that supports ending the war in Donbass by force, and his party has advocated to renounce the Non-Proliferation Treaty and arm Ukraine with nuclear weapons. In fiscal issues, he's fairly left-wing supporting things like a tenfold increase in the health budget, opening primary health centres in every village, lowering payroll taxes and reforming land sales. He's in fourth averaging 9.5%

Anatoly Hrytsenko - Civil Position

Hrytsenko is a former Minister of Defence under both Tymoshenko and Yanukovych, and he served in both the Red Air Force and the Ukrainian Air Force from 1979-2004. He was elected to the Rada in 2012 as a member of Fatherland, but he left the party and the Rada in 2014 due to irreconcilable differences. He ran for President that same year and came in fourth place. Despite Civil Position's earlier statements that the Donbass should be retaken by frorce, Hrytsenko now proposes a UN peacekeeping force in the region. He also wants to reorganise the Ukrainian army by cutting the number of generals and bringing training and staff standards up to NATO guidelines in preparation for joining the organisation. He's also a law-and-order conservative who has the support of many anti-corruption watchdogs. He's currently in fifth place averaging 9%.

Yuriy Boyko - Opposition Platform - For Life

Boyko served as energy minister and chairman of Ukraine's state-run oil and gas corporation under Yanukovych(both as president and PM) and fell from grace in 2011 after a newspaper investigation accused him of fraud. After the Euromaidan protests and the Russian advances, the Pro-Russian Boyko became a prominent leader in the Pro-Russian, and Anti-Western Opposition Bloc. Despite his support of rapprochement with Moscow, he assaulted a Deputy in 2016 when that Deputy accused him of being a Kremlin agent in the Rada. That deputy's name...Oleh Lyashko. So...yeah. Both Boyko and the splinter of the Opposition Bloc(the party broke up late last year) are mostly based in the Russian east and friendlier relations are the main theme of this centre-left, social democratic party. The party platform supports social justice and opposes predatory nationalism. He's in sixth place with a 7.5% average.

So, NSG, who do you stand with?

For me, Eastern Europe is always a mess because you can't hardly find a pro-Western social democratic party. If it wasn't for Boyko cozying up to Putin, I'd say he was all right. As it is, I have to stand with the old defender of Democracy, Yulia Tymoshenko despite my disagreements with some of her domestic stances.


Poroshenko is an absolute disaster. But he also stole a tad too much, so his death in case of him losing the election, might be imminent as his opponents divide his loot among themselves, meaning that he'll do whatever it takes to stay in power. His drunk escapades are an embarrassment in Eastern Europe, he failed to fulfill a single campaign promise, and anyone, short of a Neo-Nazi or Azov fanboy would be better than Poroshenko. Furthermore, his independent Ukrainian Church promise has only been fulfilled in his idiotic mind, as most of Orthodox Churches did not recognize it, plan to have no deals with it, and like everything Poroshenko touches with the exception of his Cayman Accounts, it's likely to be broke fairly soon. It was also fun to watch France and Germany back Russia's side in the Kerch Dispute, while that moron engaged in mental gymnastics.

Zelensky - he might actually turn out to be competent, but I don't know much about him.

Lyashko - perhaps the only candidate as incompetent as Poroshenko. His promises fail on paper, and will hilariously fail in real life, if he's elected. Honestly, if Poroshenko or Lyashko win, I could see a partition of Ukraine.

Hrystenko - like Zelensky, he could be a decent candidate.

Boyko - might actually be the only one who can unite the country. However, because he's not an insane nationalist, and because he served with Yanukovich, he's viewed as pro-Russian, which is going to get nationalists' panties twisted in a bunch.

Timoshenko - ahhh yes, the eternal political survivor, the gassy princess, Yulia Timoshenko. The good news - she's a realist. The bad news - she's easy to bribe.

Overall rankings:

0. Putin (c'mon dude, just do it - believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything)
1. Boyko (for actually standing up to insane nationalists)
2. Hrystenko (might bring all sides together, or might lack the willpower)
3. Zelensky (chance, hope, dope)
4. Timoshenko (at least she understand reality)
5. Poroshenko (disastrous drunkard, but not Neo-Nazi)
6. Lyashko (idiot, who, at the very least, will end up destroying Ukraine's army through idiotic advances and reforms)

The loss of the Donbass and crimea as voting regions have already guaranteed that boyko will have really hard time in taking presidency.

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Shofercia
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Postby Shofercia » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:33 am

The of Japan wrote:The loss of the Donbass and crimea as voting regions have already guaranteed that boyko will have really hard time in taking presidency.


True, but the people of Crimea have spoken. I'm not going to deny them a choice, simply because certain other parts of the country are too dumb to elect a decent leader. Last polls I saw from DonBass showing plurality support for independence, rather than Union with Russia. In Crimea it was three fourths majority favoring Union with Russia.
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ShakaZuli
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Postby ShakaZuli » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:12 am

Shofercia wrote:
Shrillland wrote:You may be tired of seeing yet another election thread, but the next few months have several major countries with votes coming up. A big one coming up on March 31 is the Ukrainian Presidential Election(the Rada election isn't until October), and with the nation being the latest battleground in the endless struggle of East vs. West, this is an election many are watching. Will Petro Poroshenko get a second term as president? Will Tymoshenko return to Kiev with a vengeance? Will the Russians bring in a candidate of their own? Well, we'll find out on March 31 and April 21 as well, since no candidate is likely to get a majority in the first round. So, who's running? There are, in fact, over two dozen candidates for president, so we're just going to look at the top six that are most likely to get to Round 2.

Yulia Tymoshenko - Fatherland

The former PM and hero of the Orange Revolution is making her second attempt at winning the presidency having lost in 2010 to pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovych(who immediately had her thrown in jail for charges now considered to be a political farce). Her Fatherland Party is known for being centre-right populist and pro-Western/pro-European. She's made quite a few promises that seem fairly extreme on the campaign trail including quadrupling salaries and pensions to match those of Poland and cutting interest rates to those found in Western Europe. She also promises to bring Crimea and the disputed Donbass oblasts back into the fold, but she hasn't quite explained how. Polls in Ukraine are iffy at best, but she is averaging first place at about 21% and doing better among women than men.

Petro Poroshenko - Petro Poroshenko Bloc

The current Ukrainian president, many consider Poroshenko an oligarch from the ground up, and some see him as a CIA plant. He also served as a Foreign Minister under Tymoshenko and is still owner and president of the Roshen Candy Company and Kanal 5, a Ukrainian news channel. One of his star promises, an independent Ukrainian Orthodox church, has been fulfilled this month, and he's also pushing to strengthen the Ukrainian military and expand the use of the Ukrainian language, particularly in the more Russified east of the country. His centre-right bloc proposes building a new public TV station(Ukraine's last one folded in 2014 after Euromaidan and the Russian advances), privatising Ukraine's coal industry, and eventual EU and NATO membership(Poroshenko said in late January that Ukraine could apply for both in 2024). He's currently averaging 13%, which puts him at a jockeying for second with out next candidate.

Volodymyr Zelensky - Servant of the People

Zelensky is a TV satirist that's best known for the show that gives his party its name, in which, ironically, a high school teacher who rails against corruption is unexpectedly elected president. One of his films, Love in the Big City 2, was actually banned in Ukraine in 2018 since it was partially shot in Russia and made by a Russian-owned subsidiary of his own production company, Kvartel 95. He still receives Russian royalties from previous films and TV shows, and he also co-owns three Russian firms through a Cypriot middle-man company. His party and his campaign aren't too specific on being left or right, but he is known to be pro-Western and a Euromaidan supporter, and he's made has campaign primarily about fighting Ukraine's endemic corruption and oligarchy despite the fact that he's been endorsed by former Dnipropetrovsk Governor and current FC Dnipro owner Ihor Kolomoyskyi, considered to be one of the worst oligarchs of the lot. In spite of this, Zelensky is polling at roughly 13.5% giving him a tie for second.

Oleh Lyashko - Radical Party

Despite spending time in prison for embezzlment, which some have claimed was politically motivated since he was a reporter for the Ministry of Foreign Economic Affairs' in-house newspaper at the time, he was eventually released under a 1995 amnesty and became a Rada deputy in 2006, first in the Tymoshenko Bloc and later in the ultra-nationalist Radicals. He's been a highly controversial deputy, admitting to leading the storming of a local government building with the Lyashko Battalion "Ukraine", which is something of a private militia. He ran for president in 2014 and got third place. Later that year, he proposed an anti-Russian bill that outlawed the Communist Party of Ukraine and the Party of Regions and mandated the death penalty for saboteurs including those who take part in pro-Russian or pro-separatist rallies. He also got assaulted by another major candidate in this year's vote whom you'll meet a little later after calling the candidate a Kremlin agent. He's a right-wing nationalist that supports ending the war in Donbass by force, and his party has advocated to renounce the Non-Proliferation Treaty and arm Ukraine with nuclear weapons. In fiscal issues, he's fairly left-wing supporting things like a tenfold increase in the health budget, opening primary health centres in every village, lowering payroll taxes and reforming land sales. He's in fourth averaging 9.5%

Anatoly Hrytsenko - Civil Position

Hrytsenko is a former Minister of Defence under both Tymoshenko and Yanukovych, and he served in both the Red Air Force and the Ukrainian Air Force from 1979-2004. He was elected to the Rada in 2012 as a member of Fatherland, but he left the party and the Rada in 2014 due to irreconcilable differences. He ran for President that same year and came in fourth place. Despite Civil Position's earlier statements that the Donbass should be retaken by frorce, Hrytsenko now proposes a UN peacekeeping force in the region. He also wants to reorganise the Ukrainian army by cutting the number of generals and bringing training and staff standards up to NATO guidelines in preparation for joining the organisation. He's also a law-and-order conservative who has the support of many anti-corruption watchdogs. He's currently in fifth place averaging 9%.

Yuriy Boyko - Opposition Platform - For Life

Boyko served as energy minister and chairman of Ukraine's state-run oil and gas corporation under Yanukovych(both as president and PM) and fell from grace in 2011 after a newspaper investigation accused him of fraud. After the Euromaidan protests and the Russian advances, the Pro-Russian Boyko became a prominent leader in the Pro-Russian, and Anti-Western Opposition Bloc. Despite his support of rapprochement with Moscow, he assaulted a Deputy in 2016 when that Deputy accused him of being a Kremlin agent in the Rada. That deputy's name...Oleh Lyashko. So...yeah. Both Boyko and the splinter of the Opposition Bloc(the party broke up late last year) are mostly based in the Russian east and friendlier relations are the main theme of this centre-left, social democratic party. The party platform supports social justice and opposes predatory nationalism. He's in sixth place with a 7.5% average.

So, NSG, who do you stand with?

For me, Eastern Europe is always a mess because you can't hardly find a pro-Western social democratic party. If it wasn't for Boyko cozying up to Putin, I'd say he was all right. As it is, I have to stand with the old defender of Democracy, Yulia Tymoshenko despite my disagreements with some of her domestic stances.


Poroshenko is an absolute disaster. But he also stole a tad too much, so his death in case of him losing the election, might be imminent as his opponents divide his loot among themselves, meaning that he'll do whatever it takes to stay in power. His drunk escapades are an embarrassment in Eastern Europe, he failed to fulfill a single campaign promise, and anyone, short of a Neo-Nazi or Azov fanboy would be better than Poroshenko. Furthermore, his independent Ukrainian Church promise has only been fulfilled in his idiotic mind, as most of Orthodox Churches did not recognize it, plan to have no deals with it, and like everything Poroshenko touches with the exception of his Cayman Accounts, it's likely to be broke fairly soon. It was also fun to watch France and Germany back Russia's side in the Kerch Dispute, while that moron engaged in mental gymnastics.

Zelensky - he might actually turn out to be competent, but I don't know much about him.

Lyashko - perhaps the only candidate as incompetent as Poroshenko. His promises fail on paper, and will hilariously fail in real life, if he's elected. Honestly, if Poroshenko or Lyashko win, I could see a partition of Ukraine.

Hrystenko - like Zelensky, he could be a decent candidate.

Boyko - might actually be the only one who can unite the country. However, because he's not an insane nationalist, and because he served with Yanukovich, he's viewed as pro-Russian, which is going to get nationalists' panties twisted in a bunch.

Timoshenko - ahhh yes, the eternal political survivor, the gassy princess, Yulia Timoshenko. The good news - she's a realist. The bad news - she's easy to bribe.

Overall rankings:

0. Putin (c'mon dude, just do it - believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything)
1. Boyko (for actually standing up to insane nationalists)
2. Hrystenko (might bring all sides together, or might lack the willpower)
3. Zelensky (chance, hope, dope)
4. Timoshenko (at least she understand reality)
5. Poroshenko (disastrous drunkard, but not Neo-Nazi)
6. Lyashko (idiot, who, at the very least, will end up destroying Ukraine's army through idiotic advances and reforms)

Interestingly, Poroshenko and most of his cabinet members are neither Orthodox nor ethnically Ukrainian. They are all predominantly Jewish.
Last edited by ShakaZuli on Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:46 pm

ShakaZuli wrote:
Shofercia wrote:


Poroshenko is an absolute disaster. But he also stole a tad too much, so his death in case of him losing the election, might be imminent as his opponents divide his loot among themselves, meaning that he'll do whatever it takes to stay in power. His drunk escapades are an embarrassment in Eastern Europe, he failed to fulfill a single campaign promise, and anyone, short of a Neo-Nazi or Azov fanboy would be better than Poroshenko. Furthermore, his independent Ukrainian Church promise has only been fulfilled in his idiotic mind, as most of Orthodox Churches did not recognize it, plan to have no deals with it, and like everything Poroshenko touches with the exception of his Cayman Accounts, it's likely to be broke fairly soon. It was also fun to watch France and Germany back Russia's side in the Kerch Dispute, while that moron engaged in mental gymnastics.

Zelensky - he might actually turn out to be competent, but I don't know much about him.

Lyashko - perhaps the only candidate as incompetent as Poroshenko. His promises fail on paper, and will hilariously fail in real life, if he's elected. Honestly, if Poroshenko or Lyashko win, I could see a partition of Ukraine.

Hrystenko - like Zelensky, he could be a decent candidate.

Boyko - might actually be the only one who can unite the country. However, because he's not an insane nationalist, and because he served with Yanukovich, he's viewed as pro-Russian, which is going to get nationalists' panties twisted in a bunch.

Timoshenko - ahhh yes, the eternal political survivor, the gassy princess, Yulia Timoshenko. The good news - she's a realist. The bad news - she's easy to bribe.

Overall rankings:

0. Putin (c'mon dude, just do it - believe in something, even if it means sacrificing everything)
1. Boyko (for actually standing up to insane nationalists)
2. Hrystenko (might bring all sides together, or might lack the willpower)
3. Zelensky (chance, hope, dope)
4. Timoshenko (at least she understand reality)
5. Poroshenko (disastrous drunkard, but not Neo-Nazi)
6. Lyashko (idiot, who, at the very least, will end up destroying Ukraine's army through idiotic advances and reforms)

Interestingly, Poroshenko and most of his cabinet members are neither Orthodox nor ethnically Ukrainian. They are all predominantly Jewish.



Yes, but I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that they, like most of the rest of the country, are incredibly pissed at the Russians for effectively annexing 1/8 of the country.
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Postby ShakaZuli » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:06 pm

Shrillland wrote:Yes, but I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that they, like most of the rest of the country, are incredibly pissed at the Russians for effectively annexing 1/8 of the country.

Yes, only the war and whole problem didnt start the Russians. It was when the Americans together with pro-western Ukrainians and some oligarchs organised a coup in the country. They overthrowed Yanukovich who was democratically elected which even the West confirms.
Last edited by ShakaZuli on Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:13 pm

ShakaZuli wrote:
Shrillland wrote:Yes, but I don't think that has anything to do with the fact that they, like most of the rest of the country, are incredibly pissed at the Russians for effectively annexing 1/8 of the country.

Yes, only the war and whole problem didnt start the Russians. It was when the Americans together with pro-western Ukrainians and some jewish oligarchs organised a coup in the country. They overthrowed Yanukovich who was democratically elected which even the West confirms.


Yes, we triggered Euromaidan, but you don't have to throw Antisemitism into the mix.
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Postby ShakaZuli » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:16 pm

Shrillland wrote:
ShakaZuli wrote:Yes, only the war and whole problem didnt start the Russians. It was when the Americans together with pro-western Ukrainians and some jewish oligarchs organised a coup in the country. They overthrowed Yanukovich who was democratically elected which even the West confirms.


Yes, we triggered Euromaidan, but you don't have to throw Antisemitism into the mix.

It is not that I made up anything. It is a neutral and known fact that Jewish individuals are overrepresented among russian and ukrainian oligarchs. Similar when the left claims America is a white supremist country does not mean they are anti-white, does it?
Last edited by ShakaZuli on Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Shofercia » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:53 pm

Shrillland wrote:
ShakaZuli wrote:Yes, only the war and whole problem didnt start the Russians. It was when the Americans together with pro-western Ukrainians and some jewish oligarchs organised a coup in the country. They overthrowed Yanukovich who was democratically elected which even the West confirms.


Yes, we triggered Euromaidan, but you don't have to throw Antisemitism into the mix.


I agree that we shouldn't throw Antisemitism into the mix, but that will happen when Poroshenko decides to attempt to split the Orthodox Church for his very own financial game. Control your idiots, or remove them. Antisemitism is on the rise in Europe, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46439194 and Poroshenko attempting to split Christianity for his own financial gain certainly doesn't help the issue.

Sauce: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpspr ... 018-nc.png

Interesting how antisemitism fell in Hungary, after they declawed a certain's individuals Open Society, isn't it? Antisemitism in Europe is rising due to:

1. Idiotic leaders who happen to be Jewish. Remember all those in the US yelling that Trump is white male and white males are bad? This is the European equivalent.
2. Islamic immigration. When you have such massive numbers of immigrants, a couple of "freedom fighters" are bound to slip through, and they'll use Jews as the bad guys to rally their base around them, indoctrinating youngsters with hatred while collecting a Euro or two.
3. Rise of Skinheads in response to to massive immigration.

So what happened in Hungary, when they kicked out their resident billionaire idiot? When they stared going after massive immigration? Antisemitism fell.
Last edited by Shofercia on Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Shrillland » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:54 pm

Shofercia wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
Yes, we triggered Euromaidan, but you don't have to throw Antisemitism into the mix.


I agree that we shouldn't throw Antisemitism into the mix, but that will happen when Poroshenko decides to attempt to split the Orthodox Church for his very own financial game. Control your idiots, or remove them. Antisemitism is on the rise in Europe, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46439194 and Poroshenko attempting to split Christianity for his own financial gain certainly doesn't help the issue.

Sauce: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpspr ... 018-nc.png

Interesting how antisemitism fell in Hungary, after they declawed a certain's individuals Open Society, isn't it? Antisemitism in Europe is rising due to:

1. Idiotic leaders who happen to be Jewish. Remember all those in the US yelling that Trump is white male and white males are bad? This is the European equivalent.
2. Islamic immigration. When you have such massive numbers of immigrants, a couple of "freedom fighters" are bound to slip through, and they'll use Jews as the bad guys to rally their base around them, indoctrinating youngsters with hatred while collecting a Euro or two.
3. Rise of Skinheads in response to to massive immigration.

So what happened in Hungary, when they kicked out their resident billionaire idiot? When they stared going after massive immigration? Antisemitism fell.



Yes, but it's always been much more of a problem in Ukraine than a lot of other parts of Europe, neo-nazis have always had a large presence in Ukraine thanks to the country's history as you well know. Most of the candidates aren't going down that road of rhetoric, though I wouldn't be surprised if Lyashko ends up saying something on the trail.
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Postby Chan Island » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:13 pm

Based off those descriptions, I'd either go for Tymoshenko or Hrytsenko.

Haven't heard many good things from Poroshenko, so wouldn't support him.

Yuriy Boyko does sound a bit close to Russia, which if I was Ukrainian would be a big worry, but on the other hand might be a good person to bring the Donbass back peacefully.

That Oleh Lyashko chap sounds like a properly nasty piece of work. Especially with that whole private militia shenanigan.

Volodymyr Zelensky sounds like a sad joke.
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Postby Shofercia » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:42 am

Shrillland wrote:
Shofercia wrote:
I agree that we shouldn't throw Antisemitism into the mix, but that will happen when Poroshenko decides to attempt to split the Orthodox Church for his very own financial game. Control your idiots, or remove them. Antisemitism is on the rise in Europe, https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46439194 and Poroshenko attempting to split Christianity for his own financial gain certainly doesn't help the issue.

Sauce: https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpspr ... 018-nc.png

Interesting how antisemitism fell in Hungary, after they declawed a certain's individuals Open Society, isn't it? Antisemitism in Europe is rising due to:

1. Idiotic leaders who happen to be Jewish. Remember all those in the US yelling that Trump is white male and white males are bad? This is the European equivalent.
2. Islamic immigration. When you have such massive numbers of immigrants, a couple of "freedom fighters" are bound to slip through, and they'll use Jews as the bad guys to rally their base around them, indoctrinating youngsters with hatred while collecting a Euro or two.
3. Rise of Skinheads in response to to massive immigration.

So what happened in Hungary, when they kicked out their resident billionaire idiot? When they stared going after massive immigration? Antisemitism fell.



Yes, but it's always been much more of a problem in Ukraine than a lot of other parts of Europe, neo-nazis have always had a large presence in Ukraine thanks to the country's history as you well know. Most of the candidates aren't going down that road of rhetoric, though I wouldn't be surprised if Lyashko ends up saying something on the trail.


Lyashko is a scumbag, and mods won't be happy if I type up my opinion of that scumbag.
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:17 am

Ukraine is a total basketcase and a perpetual failure socially and economically, and I hope whoever wins is the guy who closes off the flow of millions of migrants towards Poland. In the early 90s they were still one of the 20 largest economies in the world, larger than Australia, Turkey and Argentina, and were frequently named in newspapers at the time as a future "G20-like" country. Literally since the very beginning it all went to shit. By 2015 they had a smaller economy than their western neighbours Slovakia with 45 million fewer residents.

Nowadays Ukraine has a smaller GDP per capita than Nigeria and Sudan, and their minimum wage is lower than in China (and Pakistan!) in raw USD exchange rate ... and they cannot raise it any further because the Ukrainian minimum wage is already 92% of their GDP per capita -- nearly every legal employee in the country is on the minimum wage.

Russia is slightly better than represented, because their low minimum wage is a political choice rather than an economic one (20% of GDP per capita, same as the US), both could effectively double it safely Image


Their average wage is 950 dollars a month, compared to 1420 in Russia Greece and Turkey, 1700 in Hungary and Slovakia, 2150 in Poland, 2400 in Italy and Belgium and 3000 a month in the UK and Germany. It's worth noting that in 1990 Ukraine would have been at the forefront of the east just inches behind Portugal and Greece.

Ukraine's experience is sad no doubt. They were the most industrially advanced at the fall of the Union in 1989, had the highest wealth per capita and looked the most promising. Aside from being played around with by both the West and the East, their culture (not just politics, but also national culture) is simply toxic. Corruption is hilariously rife, you'd need a good few hundred dollars to get out of a speeding fine for doing 75 km/h in a 90 km/h speed limit on foreign plates. The legislative process is just a rubber stamp at best for whoever happens to have the most power on a given Tuesday. On a social level most I've met are awful people all-around.
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:26 am

If I was in Ukraine I’d most likely vote for Tymoshenko but I have this odd feeling she’s not going to win
Last edited by San Lumen on Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Risottia » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:04 am

Ten cents say they'll elect a strong(wo)man who will promise to rid the Ukrainian land of Russians, commies, muslims, measles, poverty and bankers, and then will proceed to empty the pockets of the average Ukrainian citizen to fill his own and his cronies' while blaming Putin and/or the EU for anything wrong.
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Postby San Lumen » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:05 am

Risottia wrote:Ten cents say they'll elect a strong(wo)man who will promise to rid the Ukrainian land of Russians, commies, muslims, measles, poverty and bankers, and then will proceed to empty the pockets of the average Ukrainian citizen to fill his own and his cronies' while blaming Putin and/or the EU for anything wrong.


Tymoshenko is not a populist and is nothing like Orban or Bolsonaro.

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Postby Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:25 am

San Lumen wrote:
Risottia wrote:Ten cents say they'll elect a strong(wo)man who will promise to rid the Ukrainian land of Russians, commies, muslims, measles, poverty and bankers, and then will proceed to empty the pockets of the average Ukrainian citizen to fill his own and his cronies' while blaming Putin and/or the EU for anything wrong.


Tymoshenko is not a populist and is nothing like Orban or Bolsonaro.


You're right, Tymoshenko is a professional kleptocrat. Very few of them exist, but alas, in Ukraine they can still get elected.

She was the only head of government of a post-communist Eastern Bloc country that left with a worse corruption index rating than she inherited ... twice.

Lyashko appears to be Ukraine's best hope. Ukraine should go its own way, away from the EU and certainly away from Russia. Rid the country of oligarchs and corruption (by confiscation of wealth if needed, Ukraine is at present so poor that infringing on property rights won't really do damage) and start improving the country from the ground up. Corruption is easy to solve, just go the Czech or the Polish route and you're at levels identical to Western Europe. Or go Hungary's route, and start incentivising private citizens to film bribery encounters with officials, be it municipal, regional or just policemen, offering bribes and reporting it if taken. Reward them with 3x their bribe and put the fucker in jail.

But I'd also like to see Sergiey Taruta, but know he has no chances. Dude's alright.
Last edited by Trumptonium1 on Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:41 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Sneudal » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:25 am

Shrillland wrote:
Sneudal wrote:After reading your info on the candidates, i'd abstain from voting.


I was as accurate as I could be. Eastern European elections are always messy affairs with almost no one that we in the West would unequivocally support. But I put Ukraine up because of its significance.


Oh no worries, it's not so much about your information, but more about the fact that i just don't see any candidate who would really serve Ukrainian intrests. I feel they all serve themselves above all, which is sad as Ukraine really needs somebody who stands for the country and most importantly, against its corrupt system.

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Postby Trumptonium1 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:34 am

Sneudal wrote:
Shrillland wrote:
I was as accurate as I could be. Eastern European elections are always messy affairs with almost no one that we in the West would unequivocally support. But I put Ukraine up because of its significance.


Oh no worries, it's not so much about your information, but more about the fact that i just don't see any candidate who would really serve Ukrainian intrests. I feel they all serve themselves above all, which is sad as Ukraine really needs somebody who stands for the country and most importantly, against its corrupt system.


Do you really wonder? The cost to apply for a permit to appear on the Presidential ballot in Ukraine is $100 000 USD. That's in a country where the average wage is 300 dollars a month. Of course it's going to be primarily full of people in it for themselves.
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