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[Bug?] Inoffensive Centrist Democracy with no elections

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Resalt
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: Jul 17, 2018
Father Knows Best State

[Bug?] Inoffensive Centrist Democracy with no elections

Postby Resalt » Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:25 am

Hello. Put a question mark because I'm not sure if it's an actual bug, or just a quirk of how the classification system works.

So recently I got issue #466, "(country name) Is Never Ever Getting Back Together... Like Ever", and it involved one guy seceding because he wasn't on the map.
I picked option 3, granting greater autonomy to try and quell the secessionist movements.

What happened as a result, and why I think there's a bug, is that my nation has become classified as an Inoffensive Centrist Democracy instead of being a Father Knows Best State. As well, the description for my country mentions that the citizens "take part in free and open elections, though not too often.".
There's just one major issue. The Autocracy policy is still active, meaning that the country doesn't actually hold elections.

Like said at the start, I'm not 100% sure if it's a bug or if we're holding elections, collecting votes, and then throwing them all in the garbage. The latter would actually be kinda funny, to be honest.

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Aclion
Senator
 
Posts: 3552
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Aclion » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:00 pm

WA classifications, like inoffensive Centrist Democracy, don't reflect policies, they're derived from the state of your civil rights, political freedom and economic freedom(not economy, a different one)
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Trotterdam
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7388
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:16 pm

Government classifications are based on your three freedom scores. The thing is, political freedom depends on many things, so even a nation without elections can have relatively high political freedoms if it meticulously protects the right to free speech. (If this seems questionable, consider the opposite: clearly a nation that holds elections but also harshly suppresses opinions contrary to the ruling party should have low political freedoms.) Hence, even though you're not a democracy, the WA is fooled into thinking you are because your political freedoms are high enough. Possibly this means that even though there is no formal voting procedure, your dictator does listen to his subjects and respects their opinions when there is an obvious consensus, or at least gives all petitioners a chance to justify their position before deciding whether to agree. (Considering how many elections in real life are decided 51%-49%, the existence of an obvious consensus is by no means certain, so there are plenty of subjects where you still get to demonstrate contempt for majority rule as a decision method.)

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Ghost Land
Diplomat
 
Posts: 504
Founded: Feb 14, 2014
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Ghost Land » Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:27 pm

Trotterdam wrote:Government classifications are based on your three freedom scores. The thing is, political freedom depends on many things, so even a nation without elections can have relatively high political freedoms if it meticulously protects the right to free speech. (If this seems questionable, consider the opposite: clearly a nation that holds elections but also harshly suppresses opinions contrary to the ruling party should have low political freedoms.) Hence, even though you're not a democracy, the WA is fooled into thinking you are because your political freedoms are high enough. Possibly this means that even though there is no formal voting procedure, your dictator does listen to his subjects and respects their opinions when there is an obvious consensus, or at least gives all petitioners a chance to justify their position before deciding whether to agree. (Considering how many elections in real life are decided 51%-49%, the existence of an obvious consensus is by no means certain, so there are plenty of subjects where you still get to demonstrate contempt for majority rule as a decision method.)

This is one of the foundations of my ideal OOC government system. And I can confirm what has been said in here so far; once on 60s Music I was an Inoffensive Centrist Democracy and almost a New York Times Democracy without having elections.
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Merconitonitopia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1509
Founded: Jul 29, 2013
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Merconitonitopia » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:05 pm

This same principle applies with your economic system as well, hence communist countries with no private sector are described as 'Capitalist Paradise' for having high economic freedom in spite of their socialism. Though I've never seen it pulled off myself, you could theoretically have a socialist dictatorship described as an 'Anarchy'.

The category system gets sillier when you consider the descriptions they carry in your nation's overview. A Capitalist Paradise is run by a 'conglomerate of multinational corporations' even if no private industry exists; the citizens of an Anarchy 'live in a state of perpetual fear' as per a 'complete breakdown of social order' even if a strong police force has crime well under control; and the working class of a Capitalizt 'are variously starving to death or crippled by easily preventable diseases' even if the poor make a lot of money, obesity is high, and public healthcare is excellent.

The WA tends to make a lot of assumptions when they place you into a category.
Land and Kingdom of Merconites
Fear God and keep His Commandments

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Trotterdam
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7388
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:23 am

Merconitonitopia wrote:This same principle applies with your economic system as well, hence communist countries with no private sector are described as 'Capitalist Paradise' for having high economic freedom in spite of their socialism. Though I've never seen it pulled off myself, you could theoretically have a socialist dictatorship described as an 'Anarchy'.
I've never gotten a dictatorship to have high political freedoms rather than just middling, although I've never really tried, and I've gotten a democracy to have low political freedoms (in fact, I've gotten a Psychotic Dictatorship classification in a nation that's still holding elections).

In fact, I can find two nations with the Autocracy policy and a high-political-freedom category right now: Universal Utopian State (Liberal Democratic Socialists) and Guila Naquitz (Civil Rights Lovefest). Neither is actually an Anarchy.

Nations with the Socialism flag and high Economic Freedom are more common: 17 known to me right now, with Amediana (Compulsory Consumerist State) having the highest Economic Freedom, while Nu States of America (Anarchy) has high freedoms across the board, although it isn't an Autocracy, hence why it wasn't included above. Cancers is an example of a Corporate Police State, Lanzarote is a Capitalist Paradise, and Desert Cat is Capitalizt.

Keep in mind that this search is limited to just non-WA nations that are actively answering issues.

Merconitonitopia wrote:The WA tends to make a lot of assumptions when they place you into a category.
Chalk it up to incompetent WA bureaucrats applying their prejudices. And they wonder why I have no respect for their organization.

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18119
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:28 am

Trotterdam wrote:
Merconitonitopia wrote:The WA tends to make a lot of assumptions when they place you into a category.
Chalk it up to incompetent WA bureaucrats applying their prejudices. And they wonder why I have no respect for their organization.

Compared to the mistakes that they make when estimating national populations...

^_^
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Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
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User avatar
Trotterdam
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7388
Founded: Jan 12, 2012
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Trotterdam » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:46 am

Bears Armed wrote:Compared to the mistakes that they make when estimating national populations...
Mistakes? Nah, I'm sure that my nation having more than twice the population of Earth has a perfectly rational explanation. ;)

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Merconitonitopia
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1509
Founded: Jul 29, 2013
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Merconitonitopia » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:40 pm

Trotterdam wrote:(in fact, I've gotten a Psychotic Dictatorship classification in a nation that's still holding elections).

Been there. Merconitonitopia is a notorious 'nominal democracy'. I like to think the government's just trying to hold up a veneer of democracy (granted, we are going through a bit of democratic phase right now).
Your nation appears to be an excellent example of the opposite.

Trotterdam wrote:Mistakes? Nah, I'm sure that my nation having more than twice the population of Earth has a perfectly rational explanation. ;)

You're actually about 120 million short of that if we take the recent estimate of 7.7 billion. Give it a few weeks I suppose. :p
Land and Kingdom of Merconites
Fear God and keep His Commandments


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