Crispy babies on offer..

[Bombadil]

A Chinese scientist has claimed the first babies edited with CRISPR technology.. gene editing that is banned is most countries because of ethical concerns.

The researcher, He Jiankui of Southern University of Science and Technology in Shenzhen, said he altered embryos for seven couples during fertility treatments, with one pregnancy resulting so far. He said his goal was not to cure or prevent an inherited disease, but to try to bestow a trait that few people naturally have: an ability to resist possible future infection with HIV.

Designer babies will simply be a thing one way or another, it’s inevitable. So should bans continue and we all go all in on a designer baby future?

What would you design your baby for, intelligence, strength or.. honour!

Personally I’m just going to accept this is the future, that there’ll be a high first mover advantage and the rich poor divide will be hugely accentuated.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... SApp_Other

[Temporarrium]

I sincerely hope that this would not become mainstream practice. The thought of gene editing seems to be a massive waste of resource, especially given the Chinese scientist's cause for the research, and not to mention ethically questionable as well.

So much work needs to be done.

I personally refuse to participate in/endorse the idea of baby design.

“The claim made by those responsible for the research is that the babies have been genome-edited in an attempt to make them immune to HIV. The lifetime risk of contracting HIV is extremely low in the first place; there are other means of prevention and it is no longer an incurable, inevitably terminal disease. Putting these children at such drastic risk for such a marginal gain is unjustifiable.”

Expect additional edits. Thanks for understanding.

[Xmara]

I was scared by that title at first. Thought this was gonna be about cannibalism.

Anyway, I have issues with designer babies, mostly because I can see this heading down the slippery slope of bringing eugenics back. I mean, it’s one thing to make a baby more resistant to HIV, but another thing when you start using that technology to create, say, genetically modified supersoldiers. Its probably just my overactive imagination running wild again, and it is 7 AM here so I’m also tired.

Not to mention, ever notice how competitive some parents can get about their kids (thinking their kid is the best at whatever)? For instance, when my mom was a teacher, she had parents come in all the time demanding that their children be tested for giftedness, then get mad when their kid tests as average (or even sometimes below). It’s like some parents are never satisfied with “average” kids. I could see this technology being abused.

[The New California Republic]

The researcher, He Jiankui of Southern University of Science and Technology in Shenzhen, said he altered embryos for seven couples during fertility treatments, with one pregnancy resulting so far. He said his goal was not to cure or prevent an inherited disease, but to try to bestow a trait that few people naturally have: an ability to resist possible future infection with HIV.

The use in this case seems to be limited to enhancing the immune system of the resulting child; it is a bit like a vaccination, but given to them during their creation rather than afterwards. If that is as far as it goes, then it has my support, as long as it is made widely available as part of a general vaccination strategy, like polio vaccinations are for instance.

[Bombadil]

The researcher, He Jiankui of Southern University of Science and Technology in Shenzhen, said he altered embryos for seven couples during fertility treatments, with one pregnancy resulting so far. He said his goal was not to cure or prevent an inherited disease, but to try to bestow a trait that few people naturally have: an ability to resist possible future infection with HIV.

The use in this case seems to be limited to enhancing the immune system of the resulting child; it is a bit like a vaccination, but given to them during their creation rather than afterwards. If that is as far as it goes, then it has my support, as long as it is made widely available as part of a general vaccination strategy, like polio vaccinations are for instance.

It will not be as far as it goes.

[The Free Joy State]

I was scared by that title at first. Thought this was gonna be about cannibalism.

Me too, actually.

I wasn't going to even click on it until I saw the OP was Bombadil, when I figured it might not be so straight-forward.

I'm not opposed to screening embryos to ensure they are free of a fatal or life-limiting genetic disease that runs in the family.

But, if bans were relaxed, I worry that healthier babies will give way to "better" babies -- someone's subjective idea of what makes a "perfect" human being (what skin colour, eye colour, intellect, personality traits are desireable). And that thinking leads to nowhere good.

So, while I think pre-natal screening is okay (for medical reasons only), I draw the line at designer babies.

EDIT: Though, I do accept that designer babies will happen. I just think it shouldn't.

[Nimzonia]

Trying to maintain a ban on this technology is a losing battle if ever there was one.

[Technocratic Uganda]

The gene the Chinese want to edit that deals with HIV would also make people immune to smallpox if editing was successful. Although smallpox has been reduced to the status of potential biological weapon, stockpiles of it are held by the US and Russia and its fully-sequenced genome is plastered all over the internet.

Really makes you think, doesn't it?

[The New California Republic]

The gene the Chinese want to edit that deals with HIV would also make people immune to smallpox if editing was successful. Although smallpox has been reduced to the status of potential biological weapon, stockpiles of it are held by the US and Russia and its fully-sequenced genome is plastered all over the internet.

Really makes you think, doesn't it?

...about...what, exactly? What are you implying here?

[Trumptonium1]

Rich people will just go to China to have their babies and come back.


It's a great invention.

Once again China running in front of the West.

[Valentine Z]

It's not exactly a black and white scenario, like many situations.

On one hand, if the designer babies can make it work in a good way, gone are the days of childhood diseases or any other kind of ailments that will strike along the way.

On the other, it'll bring eugenics back, and sooner or later we will (probably) have a fight over whose child is smarter, stronger, and faster. It will become a genetics arms race, and your childhood will become a messy blur of "piano classes, track & field, enhancement classes for gifted children, etc, etc" that you might even wonder if your childhood was a good one, or just another markup to make your parents proud and loud.

(I actually thought that judging from the title, someone is selling babies in GE&T again).

[-Ocelot-]

Assuming this claim is true, it's a step forwards towards the betterment of the human race. The potential miracles people can do with CRISPR have been known for years. The only problem is that capitalism can turn this into a class-based disaster as Trumptonium said

Rich people will just go to China to have their babies and come back.

But China isn't fully capitalist so perhaps it will see more widespread usage there, forcing other countries to slowly adopt it and make it widely available.

On the other, it'll bring eugenics back, and sooner or later we will (probably) have a fight over whose child is smarter, stronger, and faster. It will become a genetics arms race, and your childhood will become a messy blur of "piano classes, track & field, enhancement classes for gifted children, etc, etc" that you might even wonder if your childhood was a good one, or just another markup to make your parents proud and loud.

This is a good point but improving the human race is what we've been doing for centuries through the sciences, education, vaccinations, sports, the arts etc. CRISPR will allow us to improve humanity at a much faster rate. Just like one could argue that it can be out-of-control eugenics, another could point out that not using CRISPR will keep us eternally dumb, weak, slow.

[Valentine Z]

This is a good point but improving the human race is what we've been doing for centuries through the sciences, education, vaccinations, sports, the arts etc. CRISPR will allow us to improve humanity at a much faster rate. Just like one could argue that it can be out-of-control eugenics, another could point out that not using CRISPR will keep us eternally dumb, weak, slow.

Ahh, I see. Yeah, I never thought of it that way, the fact that science and improvement have been happening outside of directly modifying the genes.

I just wonder if we are actually ready to improve ourselves at a faster rate.

[House Ipsen-Drumria]

The West is again hamstrung by fear of eugenics, while East Asia moves forward without hindrance. Thanks a lot, Nazis, for messing up the perception of an entire field of science. Thanks a lot.

However, technological augmentation has infinitely more potential than only playing around with meat ever will, so the impact of this promises to be very negligible compared to neural tech and uploading. I expect it to be semi-useful until biology is made entirely obsolete in 20-100 years (for those who can afford it, that is).

Another problem though is, China could be first in that as well, given the West's religion-based squeamishness. And I don't want to know what the CCP would do with total control over the brain.

[-Ocelot-]

The West is again hamstrung by fear of eugenics, while East Asia moves forward without hindrance. Thanks a lot, Nazis, for messing up the perception of an entire field of science. Thanks a lot.

It's not Nazi Germany that holds the west back but the Christian dogma. We don't want to "play god" now, do we? It would make the clergy and some of the people mad!

Thankfully, China has none of that shit.

[House Ipsen-Drumria]

The West is again hamstrung by fear of eugenics, while East Asia moves forward without hindrance. Thanks a lot, Nazis, for messing up the perception of an entire field of science. Thanks a lot.

It's not Nazi Germany that holds the west back but the Christian dogma. We don't want to "play god" now, do we? It would make the clergy and some of the people mad!

Thankfully, China has none of that shit.

It's both, I would say. Musk himself said that "the Hitler problem" made it impractical for him to attempt researching human genetic improvement. China has the advantage of never having had either racial purity demagogues tarnishing the concept of human enhancement or a religion that values invisible concepts and superstition above reality.

It's too bad they're a one-party state very keen on using any advances to tighten control over everything it sees. That part is threatening.

[Eilodon]

The West is again hamstrung by fear of eugenics, while East Asia moves forward without hindrance. Thanks a lot, Nazis, for messing up the perception of an entire field of science. Thanks a lot.

It's not Nazi Germany that holds the west back but the Christian dogma. We don't want to "play god" now, do we? It would make the clergy and some of the people mad!

Thankfully, China has none of that shit.

I highly agree. Religion holds humanity and civilization back.

Also, was I the only one who read the topics title wrong?

[Napkiraly]

Designer babies is a very grey area for me, especially considering that I wish to enter the field of medical genetics. Gene repair, insertion, etc are all valid tools that can be used to remove genetic diseases or add in genes that can help prevent future disease, cure deafness, etc. The issue comes with accessibility; personally I am in favor of expanding accessibility as far and wide as possible and generally I prefer only allowing it for medical uses as opposed to non-medical usage. That said, we still haven't pinpointed the genes that contribute to intelligence (iirc) and so that particular fear is a bit of the ways off.

Also it's worth noting that CRISPR is not risk free. It can cause unwanted genetic mutations within the genome, some of which may end up being detrimental to a patient's health and life.

[House Ipsen-Drumria]

It's not Nazi Germany that holds the west back but the Christian dogma. We don't want to "play god" now, do we? It would make the clergy and some of the people mad!

Thankfully, China has none of that shit.

I highly agree. Religion holds humanity and civilization back.

Also, was I the only one who read the topics title wrong?

I thought it was another "babies for sale" RP threat by Hammer Britannia, since the left bar doesn't show the forum it's in or the author.

[Napkiraly]

The West is again hamstrung by fear of eugenics, while East Asia moves forward without hindrance. Thanks a lot, Nazis, for messing up the perception of an entire field of science. Thanks a lot.

It's not Nazi Germany that holds the west back but the Christian dogma. We don't want to "play god" now, do we? It would make the clergy and some of the people mad!

Thankfully, China has none of that shit.

The fear over eugenics is primarily led by the horrific uses of it under the Nazis. Before them eugenics was widely popular, especially among progressive circles.

[Napkiraly]

Assuming this claim is true, it's a step forwards towards the betterment of the human race. The potential miracles people can do with CRISPR have been known for years. The only problem is that capitalism can turn this into a class-based disaster as Trumptonium said

Rich people will just go to China to have their babies and come back.

But China isn't fully capitalist so perhaps it will see more widespread usage there, forcing other countries to slowly adopt it and make it widely available.

On the other, it'll bring eugenics back, and sooner or later we will (probably) have a fight over whose child is smarter, stronger, and faster. It will become a genetics arms race, and your childhood will become a messy blur of "piano classes, track & field, enhancement classes for gifted children, etc, etc" that you might even wonder if your childhood was a good one, or just another markup to make your parents proud and loud.

This is a good point but improving the human race is what we've been doing for centuries through the sciences, education, vaccinations, sports, the arts etc. CRISPR will allow us to improve humanity at a much faster rate. Just like one could argue that it can be out-of-control eugenics, another could point out that not using CRISPR will keep us eternally dumb, weak, slow.

As a species humans are not dumb nor weak. We wouldn't be the top species if we were.

[House Ipsen-Drumria]

Designer babies is a very grey area for me, especially considering that I wish to enter the field of medical genetics. Gene repair, insertion, etc are all valid tools that can be used to remove genetic diseases or add in genes that can help prevent future disease, cure deafness, etc. The issue comes with accessibility; personally I am in favor of expanding accessibility as far and wide as possible and generally I prefer only allowing it for medical uses as opposed to non-medical usage. That said, we still haven't pinpointed the genes that contribute to intelligence (iirc) and so that particular fear is a bit of the ways off.

Also it's worth noting that CRISPR is not risk free. It can cause unwanted genetic mutations within the genome, some of which may end up being detrimental to a patient's health and life.

I for one do not understand the reluctance to actually improve rather than merely heal and mend, as long as the risk-benefit analysis of the procedure is ok to the person involved.

Besides, being on top because you're sufficiently more sapient (FAR from fully sapient) than rats, dolphins and cats is nothing to brag about.

[Andsed]

Well I think this technology should be allowed but it needs to be heavily tested before we start using it. It's to valuable of a technology not to pursue but we do need to make sure everything is safe before we start using it.

[Napkiraly]

Designer babies is a very grey area for me, especially considering that I wish to enter the field of medical genetics. Gene repair, insertion, etc are all valid tools that can be used to remove genetic diseases or add in genes that can help prevent future disease, cure deafness, etc. The issue comes with accessibility; personally I am in favor of expanding accessibility as far and wide as possible and generally I prefer only allowing it for medical uses as opposed to non-medical usage. That said, we still haven't pinpointed the genes that contribute to intelligence (iirc) and so that particular fear is a bit of the ways off.

Also it's worth noting that CRISPR is not risk free. It can cause unwanted genetic mutations within the genome, some of which may end up being detrimental to a patient's health and life.

I for one do not understand the reluctance to actually improve rather than merely heal and mend, as long as the risk-benefit analysis of the procedure is ok to the person involved.

Accessibility and turning the hierarchical system into something that is hilariously rigid.

[Napkiraly]

Well I think this technology should be allowed but it needs to be heavily tested before we start using it. It's to valuable of a technology not to pursue but we do need to make sure everything is safe before we start using it.

It will never be 100% safe.