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The Debate on Free College for America

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Should college be completely free in America for students?

Yes.
58
49%
No.
34
29%
We need to find a “median”.
26
22%
 
Total votes : 118

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Das Redner
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The Debate on Free College for America

Postby Das Redner » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:39 pm

The issue of “free college for Americans” has been juggled around quite frequently these past years. Democratic presidential candidate Bernie Sanders even used it as a sales pitch for the 2016 election, and to some affect as college students around America rallied behind him. The idea of “free college education” was a dream come true for so many of them.

As of recent, I was engulfed in a fiery debate between myself and another gentleman about the idea for “free college for everyone”. This man’s reasoning was as follows; “Free college across America would be nationally beneficial” he said,”everyone would have equal opportunity( :roll: ) to higher education and could make something of themselves. You would have that many more people with higher level jobs, which means more societal contribution and less poverty. Do you realize how many people would love higher opportunity but just never get it?

“Do you realize how much free college on a national scale would cost?” I asked. After all, ”nothing is truly free.” (I might add that simple statement made him red faced and sputtery. “I realize that,” he insisted,”which is why you make budget cuts.” “Oh? Where?” I inquired. “The police, the military...” ( :rofl: ) “Why not to welfare and other free handout programs,” I asked,”that way, this new ‘free college’ money would guarantee that there handouts were going to a definite progressive future for them.”

He avoided this statement and began to rip President Donald Trump on his military spending.
Last I checked our military is what keeps our orders safe. It needs heavy expendenture.
The 16th century and the Cold War may be long past, but human nature hasn’t changed at all. But I digress. He insisted free college would only be beneficial for this country.
I referenced Cuba and their free healthcare programs, at how they are a still a third-world nation even with free this and free that. “Hmm, yes. After all, Cuba’s literary rate miniaturizes ours. And then China, a socialist nation, is far wealthier than we could ever hope to be.” he said.
( :roll: :lol2: )

Being able to read complex literature doesn’t amount to much when you can’t feed yourself and live in a tin and thatch shanty now does it? This debate between he and I branched into tangents as you can see, though we always directed right back to the key issue of free college.
I am radically against free college myself. After all consider these points;

•Our nations’ college dropout rate is bad enough when college isn’t “free”. Making it free if anything will just worsten our drop out rates. “It’s all good, it’s free. I can always come back if I want to.” (Never comes back.)
•Let’s consider how many universities, junior colleges, community colleges, and Vo-Techs this nation has in each state alone. Consider the COST of paying for such a mass influx of students in every single institution nationally. From books to dormitories to classes. It would bankrupt this nation.
•It would also lessen the value of a college degree. ”I have a masters degree.” ”Who doesn’t? Next.” It would come to the point where bachelor and master degrees would be minimized, and associates degrees and high school diplomas would be equal to nothing.
•It would even drop our college grade statistics to an even more pathetic state. Students who have this “I don’t care, it’s free” attitude will sluff their way by on C’s and D’s, and let’s refer back to the drop-outs who will blitzkreig universities with D’s and F’s before dropping out.


I could continue but I shan’t. I now ask you, NSG, for your input. What day you?
Last edited by Das Redner on Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:44 pm

Personally I think the key areas government spending should focus on is free education and free health, a lot of the rest would take care of itself.

Of course I also think education could be brought out of the 19th century that would help to significantly reduce costs but education is such a sensitive area.

I feel we're at the end of a post world consensus and the whole space of government, education, health and others need a complete bottom up transformation to deal with the modern world.

There was an interesting article on the state of the police in the UK where the person noted it's still built on 19th century structures at a county level when crime is no longer local but national.

The world has changed, and a lot of institutions need an upgrade but fundamentally, free education and healthcare should be a given.
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Cosmopolitan borovan
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Postby Cosmopolitan borovan » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:45 pm

It's not really an issue of free college cost. People are going to college anyway, so you might as well make it free. College attendance rates are going up and the US is a meritocracy so you won't admit everyone into college. Community college and vocational programs also have limited space so the space would be more of an issue than cost. The only strings attatched to the idea of free college is would there be any space or are you deserving of merit enough to attend the college? Besides, if people were to go to college, this would benefit the economy for a more skilled labor.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:52 pm

Yes free college would massively help our country increase our professional labor force.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:53 pm

Cosmopolitan borovan wrote:It's not really an issue of free college cost. People are going to college anyway, so you might as well make it free. College attendance rates are going up and the US is a meritocracy so you won't admit everyone into college. Community college and vocational programs also have limited space so the space would be more of an issue than cost. The only strings attatched to the idea of free college is would there be any space or are you deserving of merit enough to attend the college? Besides, if people were to go to college, this would benefit the economy for a more skilled labor.

I would also agree that vocational programs definitely need a boost as not everyone needs to go to college to do the career they want.

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Das Redner
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Postby Das Redner » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:53 pm

Genivaria wrote:Yes free college would massively help our country increase our professional labor force.


And how do we pay for this mass influx of students? Domestic and foreign. I honestly would like to hear solutions for this.
Last edited by Das Redner on Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bienenhalde
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Postby Bienenhalde » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:55 pm

I propose free college only for students who reach a certain grade point average or SAT score. Paying for free college for students who are too lazy or stupid would be a waste of money, but talented and hardworking students should not get shut out of college just because they come from poor families.

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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:58 pm

Das Redner wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Yes free college would massively help our country increase our professional labor force.


And how do we pay for this mass influx of students? Domestic and foreign. I honestly would like to hear solutions for this.


By thoroughly reviewing the entire structure of government, there's incredible waste and inefficiency given modern tools due to building over an antiquated system, bolting on administration that overlap and don't really do what they're supposed to.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

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Ithreland
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Postby Ithreland » Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:59 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:I propose free college only for students who reach a certain grade point average or SAT score. Paying for free college for students who are too lazy or stupid would be a waste of money, but talented and hardworking students should not get shut out of college just because they come from poor families.


^This. I get something similar in college myself, though it was on an ACT and I still have to pay for books/housing.
Last edited by Ithreland on Thu Nov 22, 2018 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:01 pm

Das Redner wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Yes free college would massively help our country increase our professional labor force.


And how do we pay for this mass influx of students? Domestic and foreign. I honestly would like to hear solutions for this.

Eating Taxing the rich, of course.

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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:02 pm

who wouldn't support free college in America?

or free healthcare?

like those are the 2 things that we desperately need as a country if we want our populace to stay content into the next few decades
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:03 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:I propose free college only for students who reach a certain grade point average or SAT score. Paying for free college for students who are too lazy or stupid would be a waste of money, but talented and hardworking students should not get shut out of college just because they come from poor families.

Doesn't Japan have a system with annual entry tests to even get into certain universities? They set it up where there's only so many slots and the top testers get in and everyone else has to try again next year.
Making it competitive would be good I think.

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Ithreland
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Postby Ithreland » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:03 pm

Pasong Tirad wrote:
Das Redner wrote:
And how do we pay for this mass influx of students? Domestic and foreign. I honestly would like to hear solutions for this.

Eating Taxing the rich, of course.


Assuming the political left could get their crap together were all of one mind, what'd stop the rich from identifying as poor?
Last edited by Ithreland on Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:04 pm

Ithreland wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Eating Taxing the rich, of course.


Assuming the political left were all of one mind, what's to stop the rich from identifying as poor?

That's not how taxes work boyo.

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:05 pm

I was paid to go to Uni by the state of Florida :P

Free college education is always a good thing and in the long run is far more beneficial in cost then the current system of a bunch of debt ridden college educated people.

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US-SSR
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Postby US-SSR » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:06 pm

Higher education in the US, whether it is to be "free" or not, needs to cost substantially less than it does. Republicans by and large have starved public education, including higher education, until we are about to reach the point where the 99 percent is relegated to two-year community college vocational certification to be followed by low-pay, low-benefit, non-union, fire-at-will "employment." It is the objective of the One Percent to reduce the rest of us to wage slavery. This must be resisted.

As for military expenditures, what possible reason could there be for the US to spend as much on defense as the next 20 nations in the world, particularly given that most of those nations are (or until recently were) our allies and that more has been spent recently on sending thousands of troops to the southern border where they are not needed, cannot be used and will spend most of their time preventing "volunteers" from pilfering National Guard equipment than has been spent on maintaining our troop levels in Afghanistan?
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:06 pm

Das Redner wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Yes free college would massively help our country increase our professional labor force.


And how do we pay for this mass influx of students? Domestic and foreign. I honestly would like to hear solutions for this.

Some increased taxes as well as cuts in less productive spending of course, the same way we pay for anything else.

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Atheris
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Postby Atheris » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:07 pm

Ithreland wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Eating Taxing the rich, of course.


Assuming the political left could get their crap together were all of one mind, what'd stop the rich from identifying as poor?

their money
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Das Redner
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Postby Das Redner » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:07 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Das Redner wrote:
And how do we pay for this mass influx of students? Domestic and foreign. I honestly would like to hear solutions for this.


By thoroughly reviewing the entire structure of government, there's incredible waste and inefficiency given modern tools due to building over an antiquated system, bolting on administration that overlap and don't really do what they're supposed to.


Elaborate. Examples?
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All are Equal
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Postby All are Equal » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:07 pm

If you limited it free PUBLIC UNDERGRADUATE education, I could get behind that. I've also seen it mentioned that it cost more to run the student loan program now than free public education would cost.

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Ithreland
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Postby Ithreland » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:10 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Ithreland wrote:
Assuming the political left were all of one mind, what's to stop the rich from identifying as poor?

That's not how taxes work boyo.


Obviously. However, with identity politics (I apologize for derailing the thread) seemingly everywhere, everything is relative and you can in fact be whatever the hell you want like your parents said. If someone's paying for "free" college, it's not free for everyone, and if you start limiting it, the proponents will ask "why?" and "who should be shorted?", which then calls for specifics that a lot of people seem to either not believe in or call it "X-ist".
Last edited by Ithreland on Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Pasong Tirad
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Postby Pasong Tirad » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:12 pm

Ithreland wrote:
Pasong Tirad wrote:Eating Taxing the rich, of course.


Assuming the political left could get their crap together were all of one mind, what'd stop the rich from identifying as poor?

Their... their money.

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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:12 pm

Ithreland wrote:
Genivaria wrote:That's not how taxes work boyo.


Obviously. However, with identity politics (I apologize for derailing the thread) seemingly everywhere, everything is relative and you can in fact be whatever the hell you want like your parents said. If someone's paying for "free" college, it's not free for everyone, and if you start limiting it, the proponents will ask "why?" and "who should be shorted?", which then calls for specifics that a lot of people seem to either not believe in or call it "X-ist".

Bienenhalde wrote:I propose free college only for students who reach a certain grade point average or SAT score. Paying for free college for students who are too lazy or stupid would be a waste of money, but talented and hardworking students should not get shut out of college just because they come from poor families.

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Ithreland
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Postby Ithreland » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:16 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Ithreland wrote:
Obviously. However, with identity politics (I apologize for derailing the thread) seemingly everywhere, everything is relative and you can in fact be whatever the hell you want like your parents said. If someone's paying for "free" college, it's not free for everyone, and if you start limiting it, the proponents will ask "why?" and "who should be shorted?", which then calls for specifics that a lot of people seem to either not believe in or call it "X-ist".

Bienenhalde wrote:I propose free college only for students who reach a certain grade point average or SAT score. Paying for free college for students who are too lazy or stupid would be a waste of money, but talented and hardworking students should not get shut out of college just because they come from poor families.


I know, and I agree with the latter. Sorry if it seemed random; I've had people like OP's free college proponent yell at me on Twitter and I apparently suck at playing devil's advocate clearly.
Last edited by Ithreland on Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The government is elected from pools of experts in whichever fields are necessary, with polarizing issues having a minimum quotient for political balance (like abortion rights would be decided by a mix of pro-choice/pro-life expert advocates, for example).

(\__/)
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(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination
♂♀Copy and Paste this in your sig if you know there are 2 genders and didn't fail biology♂♀
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My 8values score.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:17 pm

Your OP kinda sucks and yes, free college would be beneficial.

Next question!
Last edited by New haven america on Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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