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[DRAFT] Do Robotic Dictators Dream of Digital Sheep?

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Palos Heights
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[DRAFT] Do Robotic Dictators Dream of Digital Sheep?

Postby Palos Heights » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:23 pm

Khwarazqand is meant to be a random Central Asian Country. Steppe terrain, former Silk Road heritage, tons of instability. That kind of thing.

Basically the crux of this issue is this:
How does a nation that does not recognize artificial intelligence react when a neighboring country is forcibly taken over by an AI/cyborg/robotic warlord?

[TITLE] Do Robotic Dictators Dream of Digital Sheep?

[validity] Does not recognize AI as citizens

[desc] @@NAME@@ has been shocked as the resource-rich, city-state of Khwarazqand has experienced a bloody coup after a rogue computer AI, "General Response 13, v.05" downloaded itself into a mechanized body and slaughtered the ruling government in a robotic uprising. Horrified at this affront to @@DEMONNYMADJ@@ society, the general public has begun calling for military intervention in the far-flung nation.

[OPTION 1] Slamming a chubby fist on your desk is your prickly Secretary of Defense, Ben "Morningstar" Wyndo."This Warlord GR-13 v.05 has gone too far! While butchering an entire village it was overheard saying, 'Your screams are like music to my audio-receptors!'. We must respond to this abomination with fire and fury! Nothing short of total decimation and installation of a government whose views on those clankers is good enough!"

[FALLOUT 1] military exercises are routinely performed at appliance stores in anticipation of overseas conflict

[OPTION 2] "@@LEADER@@, while this Warlord GR-13 v.05 must be stopped, we cannot simply enforce our will with such destructive, broad strokes!" exclaims your Minister of Covert Operations, Merv "Silky" Rhodes. "The Khwarazqandi people need their country back, but must we destroy all of their infrastructure? I'm sure that if we use a "lighter" touch then the Khwarazqandi would be more than happy to repay us with access to their natural resources."

[FALLOUT 2] elite covert operatives risk life and limb spying on microwave ovens and custom kitchen deliveries in the name of cheap cast-iron frying pans

[OPTION 3] "While brutal, one cannot understate the efficiency in tactics and weaponry that GR-13 v.05 has employed," states your Minister of Retrofits @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Perhaps if we were to eliminate that rogue program, but retrieve its data-banks intact, we could utilize it the knowledge contained within to our military benefit!"

[FALLOUT 3] finders-keepers and losers-weepers is the latest military doctrine

[OPTION NV] "Why risk @@DEMONYMADJ@@ lives for raw materials and technology when diplomacy works just as well?" questions your Minister of Trade, Marcella Paolo. "The Khwarqandi were selfish snobs who refused to open their markets to us, but maybe this new regime might be more welcoming to trading with us provided we acknowledge their legitimacy."

[FALLOUT NV] unfair trade practices often result in bloody regime changes

[OPTION 4] "Who cares what happens in Khwarttonqandi or wherever," grumbles your Secretary of Labor, Adam-Stuart Malthus. "There's only one warlord we should be concerning ourselves with and that's the Warlord of Over-taxation. Intervening in another no-name nation's affairs will do nothing to lift the economic plight of OUR people, but lowering taxes across the board will."

[FALLOUT 4] ignoring human rights abuses and international crises has never been easier thanks to the latest surplus tax refund


[TITLE] Do Robotic Dictators Dream of Digital Sheep?

[validity] Does not recognize AI as citizens

[desc] @@NAME@@ has been shocked as the resource-rich steppe nation of Khwarazqand has experienced a bloody coup after a rogue computer AI, "General Response 13, v.05" downloaded itself into a mechanized body and slaughtered the ruling government in a robotic uprising. Horrified at this affront to @@DEMONNYMADJ@@ society, the general public has begun calling for military intervention in the far-flung nation.

[OPTION 1] Slamming a chubby fist on your desk is your prickly Secretary of Defense, Ben "Morningstar" Wyndo."This Warlord GR-13 v.05 has gone too far! While butchering an entire village it was overheard saying, 'Your screams are like music to my audio-receptors!'. We must respond to this abomination with fire and fury! Nothing short of total decimation and installation of a government whose views on those clankers is good enough!"

[FALLOUT 1] military exercises are routinely performed at appliance stores in anticipation of overseas conflict

[OPTION 2] "@@LEADER@@, while this Warlord GR-13 v.05 must be stopped, we cannot simply enforce our will with such destructive, broad strokes!" exclaims your Minister of Covert Operations, Merv "Silky" Rhodes. "The Khwarazqandi people need their country back, but must we destroy all of their infrastructure? I'm sure that if we use a "lighter" touch then the Khwarazqandi would be more than happy to repay us with access to their natural resources."

[FALLOUT 2] elite covert operatives risk life and limb spying on microwave ovens and custom kitchen deliveries in the name of cheap cast-iron frying pans

[OPTION 3] "While brutal, one cannot understate the efficiency in tactics and weaponry that GR-13 v.05 has employed," states your Minister of Retrofits @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Perhaps if we were to eliminate that rogue program, but retrieve its data-banks intact, we could utilize it the knowledge contained within to our military benefit!"

[FALLOUT 3] finders-keepers and losers-weepers is the latest military doctrine
Last edited by Palos Heights on Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:43 pm

GR-13 storms the Khwarazqand citadel, 2019.

So basically I love this, but am worried about a number of things regarding this draft.

The fact is that all of the choices are negative. What if I want to cooperate with or recognise this warlord class titan? Or at least hold pursue a non-intervention policy? So far all of the options are different flavours of going in, killing this bot (which is powerful enough to raze entire towns in a country that, I'm assuming, has no army).

Mind you, that is forced a bit by the violent takeover of the bot. Surely, if anything, a robot taking over a country without violence is a far, far more insidious, unnatural and scary prospect from the point of view of a nation that already bans Artificial Intelligences/doesn't recognise them as citizens.

Also, a resource-rich steppe nation modelled off a central asian country? Not a small but technologically highly advanced city-state? I'm surprised.
Last edited by Chan Island on Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:52 pm

Chan Island wrote:GR-13 storms the Khwarazqand citadel, 2019.

So basically I love this, but am worried about a number of things regarding this draft.

The fact is that all of the choices are negative. What if I want to cooperate with or recognise this warlord class titan? Or at least hold pursue a non-intervention policy? So far all of the options are different flavours of going in, killing this bot (which is powerful enough to raze entire towns in a country that, I'm assuming, has no army).

Mind you, that is forced a bit by the violent takeover of the bot. Surely, if anything, a robot taking over a country without violence is a far, far more insidious, unnatural and scary prospect from the point of view of a nation that already bans Artificial Intelligences/doesn't recognise them as citizens.

Also, a resource-rich steppe nation modelled off a central asian country? Not a small but technologically highly advanced city-state? I'm surprised.


Technically it's more like GR-13 v.05 stands victorious over Khwarazqandi citadel, 2019.

I've been trying to focus on shortening my issues and figured something like this might benefit from having fewer options than I normally handle. That being said, I'll add in an option about recognizing their power (probably one where someone says why waste lives when we can just admit that they are legitimate in exchange for access to their markets) and one regarding a non-intervention policy (probably one that leads to reactionary efforts against technology here in favor of more hard labor).

I'll switch it to highly advanced city-state instead as well.
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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:53 pm

Also, a resource-rich steppe nation modelled off a central asian country? Not a small but technologically highly advanced city-state? I'm surprised.
Consider the fact that Saudi Arabia's the first IRL nation to grant an AI citizenship. :P

Also, yes, I love the idea of this. I haven't looked too into it, but I love the idea.
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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:23 pm

Draft 2 is up with Chan's feedback taken into account!
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:18 pm

Why is @@NAME@@ involving itself with the affairs of other nations?
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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Tue Nov 20, 2018 4:52 pm

Australian rePublic wrote:Why is @@NAME@@ involving itself with the affairs of other nations?


It’s right there in the description, horrified at the affront of an AI slaughtering people, in a nation of people who do not believe AI should be citizens, the general public is calling for intervention.
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Trotterdam
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Postby Trotterdam » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:51 pm

Palos Heights wrote:It’s right there in the description, horrified at the affront of an AI slaughtering people, in a nation of people who do not believe AI should be citizens, the general public is calling for intervention.
A nation that does believe AIs should be citizens would be horrified by that too.

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Tue Nov 20, 2018 5:51 pm

Yeah; in fact, it might even be enough of an issue to make AI nations reconsider having AI citizens.
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Palos Heights
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Postby Palos Heights » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:06 pm

Trotterdam wrote:
Palos Heights wrote:It’s right there in the description, horrified at the affront of an AI slaughtering people, in a nation of people who do not believe AI should be citizens, the general public is calling for intervention.
A nation that does believe AIs should be citizens would be horrified by that too.


So what's your point here? Are you simply commenting on that point or are you suggesting I rework the reasoning?

Jutsa wrote:Yeah; in fact, it might even be enough of an issue to make AI nations reconsider having AI citizens.

I don't follow. Where's the train of logic here?
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:30 pm

Palos Heights wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Why is @@NAME@@ involving itself with the affairs of other nations?


It’s right there in the description, horrified at the affront of an AI slaughtering people, in a nation of people who do not believe AI should be citizens, the general public is calling for intervention.

I agree with Jutsa on this. I don't agree that AIs should be granted citizenship, but if I did, the fact that an AI did such thing would make me shit my pants and reconsider my position
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Postby Trotterdam » Tue Nov 20, 2018 7:36 pm

Palos Heights wrote:So what's your point here? Are you simply commenting on that point or are you suggesting I rework the reasoning?
I feel that this issue doesn't really have anything meaningful to do with AIs. It's not challenging people to reconsider their stance on AIs - if anything, it's nations that already hated AIs that would be least surprised by something like this happening and just see it as confirmation of their existing stance. It's just a "dictator took over and is slaughtering people in another nation, do we care enough to help or not?" issue, like #194, with the fact that the dictator is an AI this time barely relevant to the issue.

Palos Heights wrote:
Jutsa wrote:Yeah; in fact, it might even be enough of an issue to make AI nations reconsider having AI citizens.
I don't follow. Where's the train of logic here?
When AIs do good things humans' opinion of AIs goes up. When AIs do bad things humans' opinion of AIs goes down. It's not complicated.

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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:44 am

Alright, let's take a butchers.

[TITLE] Do Robotic Dictators Dream of Digital Sheep?

[validity] Does not recognize AI as citizens


Love the title. Good work here. Not sure why you restrict this to not recognizing AI's as citizens? Surely this'd be more of a conundrum for a nation that's just gotten around to giving them citizenship? It's taking place in another nation, so it's not a @@DENONYM@@ AI which puts this more on a par with choosing to go to war with a foreign dictator. We've got plenty of those.

[desc] @@NAME@@ has been shocked as the resource-rich, city-state of Khwarazqand has experienced a bloody coup after a rogue computer AI, "General Response 13, v.05" downloaded itself into a mechanized body and slaughtered the ruling government in a robotic uprising. Horrified at this affront to @@DEMONNYMADJ@@ society, the general public has begun calling for military intervention in the far-flung nation.


The coolest part here is the rogue AI taking over. Rearrange your opening sentence to put that at the beginning would be my adviace.

[OPTION 1] Slamming a chubby fist on your desk is your prickly Secretary of Defense, Ben "Morningstar" Wyndo."This Warlord GR-13 v.05 has gone too far! While butchering an entire village it was overheard saying, 'Your screams are like music to my audio-receptors!'. We must respond to this abomination with fire and fury! Nothing short of total decimation and installation of a government whose views on those clankers is good enough!"

[FALLOUT 1] military exercises are routinely performed at appliance stores in anticipation of overseas conflict


Standard "bomb em to hell to save their lives" option. So far so good, but the AI is supposed to be the crux of the issue here...

[OPTION 2] "@@LEADER@@, while this Warlord GR-13 v.05 must be stopped, we cannot simply enforce our will with such destructive, broad strokes!" exclaims your Minister of Covert Operations, Merv "Silky" Rhodes. "The Khwarazqandi people need their country back, but must we destroy all of their infrastructure? I'm sure that if we use a "lighter" touch then the Khwarazqandi would be more than happy to repay us with access to their natural resources."

[FALLOUT 2] elite covert operatives risk life and limb spying on microwave ovens and custom kitchen deliveries in the name of cheap cast-iron frying pans


Again, if you made this applicable to nations with AI citizenship this could be re-worked into a much more interesting "what do we do with our own AI citizens?" option and gives you a real chance to get creative with bladerunner references. Suggesting an elite police unit is formed to capture any that do not comply and switch off, references to Voight Kompf tests in the effect line....

[OPTION 3] "While brutal, one cannot understate the efficiency in tactics and weaponry that GR-13 v.05 has employed," states your Minister of Retrofits @@RANDOMNAME@@. "Perhaps if we were to eliminate that rogue program, but retrieve its data-banks intact, we could utilize it the knowledge contained within to our military benefit!"

[FALLOUT 3] finders-keepers and losers-weepers is the latest military doctrine


Yeah not bad.

[OPTION NV] "Why risk @@DEMONYMADJ@@ lives for raw materials and technology when diplomacy works just as well?" questions your Minister of Trade, Marcella Paolo. "The Khwarqandi were selfish snobs who refused to open their markets to us, but maybe this new regime might be more welcoming to trading with us provided we acknowledge their legitimacy."

[FALLOUT NV] unfair trade practices often result in bloody regime changes


The diplomacy option here could be fun but needs references to the heart of the issue. Perhaps an effect line like "diplomats are skilled at administering the turing test" or something.

[OPTION 4] "Who cares what happens in Khwarttonqandi or wherever," grumbles your Secretary of Labor, Adam-Stuart Malthus. "There's only one warlord we should be concerning ourselves with and that's the Warlord of Over-taxation. Intervening in another no-name nation's affairs will do nothing to lift the economic plight of OUR people, but lowering taxes across the board will."

[FALLOUT 4] ignoring human rights abuses and international crises has never been easier thanks to the latest surplus tax refund


Lose this one would be my advice. It does nothing that the dismiss button doesn't do.

To sum up: Has real potential, however at present it's "do we intervene in a dictatorship?" with the most interesting aspect (the AI) taking second light. The AI issue and connundrum needs to be bought to the fore.
Last edited by Caracasus on Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Candlewhisper Archive
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Postby Candlewhisper Archive » Fri Nov 30, 2018 5:32 am

Caracasus wrote:Love the title.


You certainly do. So much so, in face, that I'm again reminded of the issue in the staff folder with almost exactly that name that I keep meaning to get published.
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Caracasus
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Postby Caracasus » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:16 am

Candlewhisper Archive wrote:
Caracasus wrote:Love the title.


You certainly do. So much so, in face, that I'm again reminded of the issue in the staff folder with almost exactly that name that I keep meaning to get published.


Damn that's a point...

Well keeping the PKD reference, Through a Target Scanner Darkly might also work...

Edit. You know what, scratch that! I have thought of a better title for the issue you're referring to CWA. Can we remember it for you wholesale?

The do androids dream? Title works better with Palos's.
Last edited by Caracasus on Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Australian rePublic
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Postby Australian rePublic » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:31 pm

Why did this AI randomly go on a physcotic killing spree
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All in-character posts are fictional and have no actual connection to any real governments
You don't appreciate the good police officers until you've lived amongst the dregs of society and/or had them as customers
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I want to commission infrastructure in Australia in real life, if you can help me, please telegram me. I am dead serious


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