Performing as other race in non-racist context - is it OK?

[Petrolheadia]

Recently, there has been a controversy involving the Polish TV show Twoja Twarz Brzmi Znajomo (Your Face Sounds Familiar), in which Polish singers and actors perform live as famous musicians, trying to get a performance as close to the original as possible.

The problem area was one of the contestants performing Hotline Bling as Drake, which certain American sites called "blackface" and "offensive".

Blackface is "a form of theatrical make-up used predominantly by non-black performers to represent a caricature of a black person.". However, in Poland there is no cultural context of people parodying black people in such a way, or at least it is not deeply forged.

Seeing that such performances do not necessarily have the same context outside the UK, is it OK to act as a member of another race in a non-satirical concept?

I think it is acceptable - after all, actors usually aren't of the same socioeconomic group as the characters, so why should we extend it to race if they are attempting to do it seriously and professionally, which has been at least attempted in the show?

[Digital Planets]

No one should open that link to save your sanity. That dudes face looks as bad the that girl who missing like a part of her face you makes memes out of.

Hell, that face alone is racist above all over things considered racist. It's more racist than on orbital beam orbiting the planet that only targets black people.

[Petrolheadia]

No one should open that link to save your sanity. That dudes face looks as bad the that girl who missing like a part of her face you makes memes out of.

Hell, that face alone is racist above all over things considered racist.

It's just bad makeup. The worst I've ever seen on the show.

[Digital Planets]

No one should open that link to save your sanity. That dudes face looks as bad the that girl who missing like a part of her face you makes memes out of.

Hell, that face alone is racist above all over things considered racist.

It's just bad makeup. The worst I've ever seen on the show.

I would figure it's just Poland trying to be edgy, like everything else in poland.

"Oh we don't need security cameras in Poland WE USE THE ELDERLY"

[Scomagia]

Yes, it's fine. Intent is what matters. If your intention isn't to mock I don't really see a problem.

[Page]

How could anyone possibly think blackface is a good idea? FFS stop doing it. What does it accomplish? It's not like this guy was supposed to be a spy or Drake's body double.

[Petrolheadia]

It's not like this guy was supposed to be [...] Drake's body double.

In a way, that's the show's concept.

[USS Monitor]

I think people are more sensitive than they should be about dressing up as other races or wearing ethnic costume from other cultures. It's not inherently insulting or malicious.

However, it can be insulting if you make it look trashy or cheap. People should make a decent effort to present the other race/culture/person they are impersonating in a dignified way. Dressing up as a black celebrity and putting some effort into actually looking like them and capturing what you think is cool about them? Fine. People also do that dressing up as white celebrities. Wearing a low-quality crudely-made costume that relies on caricature and stereotypes, no. If you are going to dress up as another race, take the time to make it look decent.

I saw a story from the US about a case where someone had dressed up as Beyonce for Halloween, and she had done a decent job of making it look good, and I found myself thinking, "How is that so very different than dressing up as Madonna?" On the other hand, if you dress up as an uglier skankier more ghetto version of Beyonce, that's getting racially offensive.

If you're dressing up as Beyonce because you think Beyonce is cool, then you want to look like the real one, right? Imitation is the highest form of praise. But mockery is not the same thing.

[USS Monitor]

No one should open that link to save your sanity. That dudes face looks as bad the that girl who missing like a part of her face you makes memes out of.

Hell, that face alone is racist above all over things considered racist.

It's just bad makeup. The worst I've ever seen on the show.

It is bad make-up, though. If this guy had a choice of who to perform as, it might have been a good idea to pick a different musician rather than Drake, because he didn't pull this off terribly well.

People are oversensitive about the racial angle of this stuff, but at the same time, it really does look dumb.

[Petrolheadia]

It's just bad makeup. The worst I've ever seen on the show.

It is bad make-up, though. If this guy had a choice of who to perform as, it might have been a good idea to pick a different musician rather than Drake, because he didn't pull this off terribly well.

People are oversensitive about the racial angle of this stuff, but at the same time, it really does look dumb.

It's chosen in a lottery in the preceding episode.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

If it is used in a non-satirical way, then yes, it should be ok.

[Scottish Socialists]

It's just bad makeup. The worst I've ever seen on the show.

I would figure it's just Poland trying to be edgy, like everything else in poland.

"Oh we don't need security cameras in Poland WE USE THE ELDERLY"

”What you mean “new, reliable cars”? Fiat 126p is as reliable as Soviet tank.”

That is, a rushed Soviet tank made during Barbarossa.

Edit: I’m actually gonna contribute here.

If you aren’t doing it in a racist context, and you’re not trying to be racist, then it’s fine.
However, if I painted my face black and began shouting racial slurs, making fun of black people, and doing a racist impression of a stereotype, then, that is not fine.

[Petrolheadia]

I would figure it's just Poland trying to be edgy, like everything else in poland.

"Oh we don't need security cameras in Poland WE USE THE ELDERLY"

”What you mean “new, reliable cars”? Fiat 126p is as reliable as Soviet tank.”

That is, a rushed Soviet tank made during Barbarossa.

Nobody actually thought it was on par with Western cars.

Except for Western city cars, because the 126p was a license version of one. And that was all the average Pole could afford.

[Saiwania]

Of course it should be allowed. When sufficient talent can't be found for certain roles, there are plenty of valid reasons to cast a White actor for an Asian role and so on. We should go back towards the good old days of Black and Yellow face, etc.

As one example: Bruce Lee would've been far superior in terms of combat prowess, but David Carradine was in the end; the better pick overall- for the character role of Kwai Chang Caine. Bruce would've been more of a badass which is good, but David was more Zen in terms of temperament.

[Petrolheadia]

Of course it should be allowed. When sufficient talent can't be found for certain roles, there are plenty of valid reasons to cast a White actor for an Asian role and so on. We should go back towards the good old days of Black and Yellow face, etc.

As one example: Bruce Lee would've been far superior in terms of combat prowess, but David Carradine was in the end; the better pick overall- for the character role of Kwai Chang Caine.

The problem is that it will likely seem forced and unnatural. There is a reason the show's performances are seen as musical gimmicks.

Also, why are you only talking about white actors?

[USS Monitor]

Of course it should be allowed. When sufficient talent can't be found for certain roles, there are plenty of valid reasons to cast a White actor for an Asian role and so on. We should go back towards the good old days of Black and Yellow face, etc.

As one example: Bruce Lee would've been far superior in terms of combat prowess, but David Carradine was in the end; the better pick overall- for the character role of Kwai Chang Caine. Bruce would've been more of a badass which is good, but David was more Zen in terms of temperament.

Carradine tried, but no, that would have been better with Bruce Lee.

[Saiwania]

Also, why are you only talking about white actors?

That is just what Hollywood has traditionally always done up until relatively recently. I'd assume that for Bollywood, Indian actors are primarily used for everything. Making movies is complicated, so I'm willing to trust directors to just do what they want, even if it is either extreme of being as racist or as diverse as possible. There should be no diversity quotas or anything of that nature, which allegedly forced Peter Jackson to include Black people in some of the Hobbit films.

[USS Monitor]

It is bad make-up, though. If this guy had a choice of who to perform as, it might have been a good idea to pick a different musician rather than Drake, because he didn't pull this off terribly well.

People are oversensitive about the racial angle of this stuff, but at the same time, it really does look dumb.

It's chosen in a lottery in the preceding episode.

Somewhat understandable, then. It still didn't really work.

[Major-Tom]

My question is; who the fuck wants to impersonate Drake. The fact that he has the fanbase he does astounds me. There are so many rappers out there that are leagues better.

[Ostroeuropa]

I think people are more sensitive than they should be about dressing up as other races or wearing ethnic costume from other cultures. It's not inherently insulting or malicious.

However, it can be insulting if you make it look trashy or cheap. People should make a decent effort to present the other race/culture/person they are impersonating in a dignified way. Dressing up as a black celebrity and putting some effort into actually looking like them and capturing what you think is cool about them? Fine. People also do that dressing up as white celebrities. Wearing a low-quality crudely-made costume that relies on caricature and stereotypes, no. If you are going to dress up as another race, take the time to make it look decent.

I saw a story from the US about a case where someone had dressed up as Beyonce for Halloween, and she had done a decent job of making it look good, and I found myself thinking, "How is that so very different than dressing up as Madonna?" On the other hand, if you dress up as an uglier skankier more ghetto version of Beyonce, that's getting racially offensive.

If you're dressing up as Beyonce because you think Beyonce is cool, then you want to look like the real one, right? Imitation is the highest form of praise. But mockery is not the same thing.

This. But I think there is a difference between individuals and organizations.

You are only you, you can't become black before you dress up as a black celebrity, and you shouldn't be denied the ability to do things like that because of some overly-sensitive (or more realistically, ideologically and politically motivated based on axioms separate from feelings) blowback.

But then you've got companies and shit, and films and so on, and there i think there's a case to be made that the company should make efforts to hire people of appropriate race and sex when casting for roles of historically or culturally significant figures to avoid blackface/whiteface and so on.

[Right wing humour squad]

I think we’re missing some really great satire from worrying about “black face”.

[Kowani]

I think we’re missing some really great satire from worrying about “black face”.

Yeah..satire. Oh wait, hold on, that's actually racist!

[USS Monitor]

But then you've got companies and shit, and films and so on, and there i think there's a case to be made that the company should make efforts to hire people of appropriate race and sex when casting for roles of historically or culturally significant figures to avoid blackface/whiteface and so on.

Yes and no. The musical "Hamilton" had people cast as historical figures of other races, but it still kinda worked. Other times, it doesn't work.

If you've got someone that doesn't look the part, it takes away from the realism of the work. If you own that and don't try to be realistic, it may be fine. If you make something that it looks like it was meant to be realistic, but then you mess up the realism by casting an actor of the wrong race, that's bothersome.

Not that it should be legislated, just that it can undermine the quality of the work.

[Dahon]

Is donning makeup so your hue's a little darker or lighter bigoted? No. Are spoken and acted stereotypes thought to be characteristic of that hue while in such makeup bigoted? Yes.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

I mean, I assume I'd be somewhat necessary in their case since I don't believe there are many black folks in Poland, even less professional actors...