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A passable health plan that might get passed the GOP?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Would this work?

It'll get passed the GOP alright, because it's more reactionary than anything they could come up with! Are you insane!?
1
6%
Holy f%&k this is stupid. It's 100% bound to go bankrupt, which the GOP will use to further discredit a public option.
3
19%
If it works, it's about as crap as skinny repeal Obamacare, except much, much more risky.
1
6%
Might work a bit better than what the GOP would have in its place, but we can just win and go singlepayer, so why bother?
6
38%
I like the basic concept, but with the specifics you gave, it would never work.
2
13%
It's actually a passable idea, needs some work though.
3
19%
Hey, this is actually pretty good!
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Total votes : 16

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Socialist Federal Slavia
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A passable health plan that might get passed the GOP?

Postby Socialist Federal Slavia » Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:42 am

Hello all,

I'm a person who likes to waste time on the interwebs, so American news cannot help but be available to me.
Now, since my own country's politics are to depressing to think about and Trump is objectively hillarious in his idiocy, I've spent an inordinate amount of time observing America's situation, and I've come up with an idea for a healthcare proposal that ought to be better than skinny Obamacare, or no Obamacare, and conservative enough that some less insane Republicans might be willing to swallow it, and I'm interested in what Americans, especially experts in the field, might think:

1)Create a Limited Liability Corporation and call it "Citizens' Voluntary Mutual Aid Fund" so that it sounds freemarkety.

2)Make it cover all medical costs of everyone who applies, along with all their legal dependents, up to a limit of $100 000 per each person, in exchange for a minimum monthly premium of $50, or something else significantly lower than private insurance or Obamacare level penalties.

3)After one or more of the $100 000 personal funds has been fully or partially exhausted, every regular mothly payment of $50 put in increases all non-full funds by $150, until the original $100 000 state has been restored.

4)Only payments in excess of the base $50 per month increase the fund further, and the more one gives, the more right one has to demand money for medical treatments.

5)Allow people to either sign up for CiVoMAF, pay Obamare-like penalties, or get private insurance, and make CiVoMAF the cheapest option

6)Put a few billion dollars into it at the start

Now here's the selling points for Republicans:

7)Allow people to sell their right to withdraw any sum above the $100 000 base fund, and reward large investments with greater leverage, i.e. you put in $1000 000 000 in cash, and you have a right to extract $4 000 000 000 worth of care from the CiVoMAF, which you can then sell to anyone willing to buy for say $2 000 000 000.

8 )Allow the CiVoMAF to invest any excess earnings(earnings above the obligatory costs of providing care) into assets, and make them tax exempt.

9)Mandate that acutely ill people, who have either depleted their own packages or have dependents in such a situation, get first pick of any sales of withdrawal rights, followed by sick people/people with sick dependents whose funds have not been exhausted, and only then the general public.

10)Make the organization equally accountable to all who put in the minimum, regardless of how much they give in excess of the minimum.

11)Somehow get some billionaires who like to maintain a good-ish image, or are looking to divert the public's attention from their evilness to invest into the fund

And then hope the massive initial cash injection, along with the fact that nearly EVERYONE with an income will be joining it, the fact that there are reputable billionaires investing into it, and that it's massive bargaining power will somehow get and keep that thing in the green before gjillions of dollars start haemorrhaging out of it to pay for tens of millions of the poor and sick.

Edit:
It either doesn't bother rich people (except those in direct health care provision) or gives them something to look forward to(investment opportunity), or at least gives them an escape hatch away from complete ruin in the case of the insurance companies, which will be allowed to buy into CiVoMAF and still profit somewhat, even taking advantage of the lower prices it will be able to haggle out of providers.
Last edited by Socialist Federal Slavia on Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:16 am

I give it two weeks before congress raids it to fund some pet project.
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Socialist Federal Slavia
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Postby Socialist Federal Slavia » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:24 am

Aclion wrote:I give is two weeks before congress raids it to fund some pet project.


It's an LLC, not government owned. Its funds can't be used by politicians.

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:26 am

>Passable health plan

>Get passed Republicans

pick one and only one.
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Postby Socialist Federal Slavia » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:29 am

Telconi wrote:>Passable health plan

>Get passed Republicans

pick one and only one.


Well that's a bit pessimistic. I meant "one that can work well enough but is moderate enough that SOME republicans don't vote against it so that it doesn't get shot down"
Last edited by Socialist Federal Slavia on Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:37 pm

How do you control fraud?

Doctors and hospitals are very experienced at defrauding the system
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Postby Mardla » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:38 pm

Pope Joan wrote:How do you control fraud?

Doctors and hospitals are very experienced at defrauding the system

They use state funds as a blank check to hand out narcotics like gumdrops.
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Socialist Federal Slavia
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Postby Socialist Federal Slavia » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:16 am

Pope Joan wrote:How do you control fraud?

Doctors and hospitals are very experienced at defrauding the system


I don't see why it's any more defraudable than any other healthcare provision system.

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Postby Tobleste » Tue Nov 06, 2018 6:33 am

Socialist Federal Slavia wrote:
Telconi wrote:>Passable health plan

>Get passed Republicans

pick one and only one.


Well that's a bit pessimistic. I meant "one that can work well enough but is moderate enough that SOME republicans don't vote against it so that it doesn't get shot down"


I'm no expert on health care and can just about understand your idea but I agree with Telconi ( :? ). Republicans universally opposed Obama care for 6 years and depicted it as the end of America and then revealed they had nothing different and have left it there.

I imagine the only health care proposal that could pass the GOP is a GOP one or one passed when they've no power that then proves to be a success and they can't fully repeal it when they get back into power after blaming the dems new plan for Pearl Harbour.

As an aside, I have similar reasons for being interested in American politics.
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Postby Seangoli » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:19 am

Tobleste wrote:
Socialist Federal Slavia wrote:
Well that's a bit pessimistic. I meant "one that can work well enough but is moderate enough that SOME republicans don't vote against it so that it doesn't get shot down"


I'm no expert on health care and can just about understand your idea but I agree with Telconi ( :? ). Republicans universally opposed Obama care for 6 years and depicted it as the end of America and then revealed they had nothing different and have left it there.

I imagine the only health care proposal that could pass the GOP is a GOP one or one passed when they've no power that then proves to be a success and they can't fully repeal it when they get back into power after blaming the dems new plan for Pearl Harbour.

As an aside, I have similar reasons for being interested in American politics.


More recent Republican plans for Healthcare reform is to go back to what we had prior to the ACA. The notion they have any desire to reform the system is silly. Theybdon't. Tjey want to go to the Halcyon days of yore, whem healthcare in the US was great and cheap amd amazing.


Except it wasn't. Even Republicans were demanding massive healthcare reform ten years ago. The system, as it was, was awful. The ACA itself is a giant compromise with Republicans, that they pulled support from aftee months of successful negotiation for political optics.

Now, I don't consider the ACA in a particularly good light, even though I accept its necessity. Equally, its not some golden cow I believe should never be replaced. That said, if you are going to end it, you need a replacement, and the Repiblicans don't have one. It is telling how little movement there has been on it in the past year sinve their failed attempt to pass an abortion of a bill.

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Postby Thermodolia » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:20 am

This plan is an absolute nightmare. It’s like you took the good parts of the ACA threw them out and replaced them with worse ones.
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Postby Big Jim P » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:54 am

Tobleste wrote:
Socialist Federal Slavia wrote:
Well that's a bit pessimistic. I meant "one that can work well enough but is moderate enough that SOME republicans don't vote against it so that it doesn't get shot down"


I'm no expert on health care and can just about understand your idea but I agree with Telconi ( :? ). Republicans universally opposed Obama care for 6 years and depicted it as the end of America and then revealed they had nothing different and have left it there.

I imagine the only health care proposal that could pass the GOP is a GOP one or one passed when they've no power that then proves to be a success and they can't fully repeal it when they get back into power after blaming the dems new plan for Pearl Harbour.

As an aside, I have similar reasons for being interested in American politics.


Obamacare is an abomination. No one should be forced to buy insurance (or anything else) if they don't want it.
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Postby Crysuko » Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:13 pm

Socialist Federal Slavia wrote:Create a Limited Liability Corporation

It's shit. The private sector is the problem here, and I will always call the american "healthcare" system garbage unless the day comes when it's 100% nationalised.
Last edited by Crysuko on Tue Nov 06, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby US-SSR » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:14 pm

Any health plan that does not guarantee increased funds flowing into the pockets of health care company CEOs is not something the GOP would be remotely interested in. Medicare for All? Don't get me started. What a scam. My wife is on Medicare and this year has to choose from 40+ different plans offered by...wait for it...for profit health care companies. Every Western industrialized nation in the world except the US has single payer. It's past time for America to join the rest of the civilized world.
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Postby Right wing humour squad » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:33 pm

All healthcare funded of taxation is slavery.
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Postby US-SSR » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:41 pm

Right wing humour squad wrote:All healthcare funded of taxation is slavery.


Really. Government, presumably chosen with some modicum of democracy, carrying out its responsibility to secure the welfare of its citizens by using taxes to fund health care for them, is equivalent to treating human beings as property.

Not. Even. Close.
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It is a slaughter and not just a political dispute.

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Postby Crysuko » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:49 pm

Right wing humour squad wrote:All healthcare funded of taxation is slavery.

Oh piss off. You're the kind of "fuck you, got mine" pissant that stands in the way of a decent healthcare system in the US. Pay a mite extra tax for everyone's benefit? Of course not, you're far too full of short sighted greed and avarice. Congratulations, you are officially the personification of what's wrong with society.
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Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

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Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

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Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

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Postby Digital Planets » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:56 pm

Crysuko wrote:
Right wing humour squad wrote:All healthcare funded of taxation is slavery.

Oh piss off. You're the kind of "fuck you, got mine" pissant that stands in the way of a decent healthcare system in the US. Pay a mite extra tax for everyone's benefit? Of course not, you're far too full of short sighted greed and avarice. Congratulations, you are officially the personification of what's wrong with society.


I have to disagree with you on that. There are far worst personifications, such as Youtube clickbait videos and Mark Databurg.
Last edited by Digital Planets on Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Tysoania » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:25 pm

I've gotta say, I like the basics. I'm more of a universal-system fan, but in the context of the US system, it seems to be workable.

However, I got confused about the step where the LLC could turn its excess cash into assets. Is the system just reinvesting its profits from investments?
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Postby Right wing humour squad » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:52 am

Crysuko wrote:
Right wing humour squad wrote:All healthcare funded of taxation is slavery.

Oh piss off. You're the kind of "fuck you, got mine" pissant that stands in the way of a decent healthcare system in the US. Pay a mite extra tax for everyone's benefit? Of course not, you're far too full of short sighted greed and avarice. Congratulations, you are officially the personification of what's wrong with society.


Ah yes let’s enslave the productive for the unproductives benefit. Justify it how you want it’s still slavery. And all your holier than thous won’t change that.
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Postby Juristonia » Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:04 am

I don't think you know what slavery is.
Or what words mean.
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Postby The South Falls » Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:10 am

Right wing humour squad wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Oh piss off. You're the kind of "fuck you, got mine" pissant that stands in the way of a decent healthcare system in the US. Pay a mite extra tax for everyone's benefit? Of course not, you're far too full of short sighted greed and avarice. Congratulations, you are officially the personification of what's wrong with society.


Ah yes let’s enslave the productive for the unproductives benefit. Justify it how you want it’s still slavery. And all your holier than thous won’t change that.

Who said all those using healthcare were "unproductive"?
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Postby Thermodolia » Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:03 am

US-SSR wrote:Any health plan that does not guarantee increased funds flowing into the pockets of health care company CEOs is not something the GOP would be remotely interested in. Medicare for All? Don't get me started. What a scam. My wife is on Medicare and this year has to choose from 40+ different plans offered by...wait for it...for profit health care companies. Every Western industrialized nation in the world except the US has single payer. It's past time for America to join the rest of the civilized world.

And you would be wrong. Germany and Switzerland both have multi payer systems. Switzerland’s system isn’t that much different than the ACA.
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Postby Genivaria » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:48 am

A proper multi-payer system would be better than what we have now honestly.
Our private health system is too developed for us to simply switch to single-payer without repercussions, better to make the quality that we have more accessible.
Last edited by Genivaria on Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Crysuko » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:50 am

Right wing humour squad wrote:
Crysuko wrote:Oh piss off. You're the kind of "fuck you, got mine" pissant that stands in the way of a decent healthcare system in the US. Pay a mite extra tax for everyone's benefit? Of course not, you're far too full of short sighted greed and avarice. Congratulations, you are officially the personification of what's wrong with society.


Ah yes let’s enslave the productive for the unproductives benefit. Justify it how you want it’s still slavery. And all your holier than thous won’t change that.

So all those who need life saving surgery and medication are unproductive? All those who can't afford to pay for an ambulance ride and a bag of saline are unproductive? Those who work their asses off to just barely afford a a family member's medical bills are unproductive.

Stand in an emergency room and watch a tearful mother fumble with credit cards to pay for her child's medication, AND THEN FUCKING TELL ME WHO'S ENSLAVED
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Ethel mermania wrote:A terrorist attack on a disabled center doesn't make a lot of sense, unless to show no one is safe.

This will take some time to figure out, i am afraid.

"No one is safe, not even your most vulnerable and insecure!"

Cesopium wrote:Welp let's hope armies of 10 million don't just roam around and Soviet their way through everything.

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Victoriala II wrote:Ur mom has value

one week ban for flaming xd

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Much better than the kulak smoothies. Their texture was suspiciously grainy.

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