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[DRAFT] Repeal "Rights and Duties..."

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Imperium Anglorum
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[DRAFT] Repeal "Rights and Duties..."

Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:26 am

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Repeal "Rights and Duties..."
Category: Repeal



The World Assembly,

Puzzled by the target resolution's terminological inexactitude in defining war as consensual,

Noting that article 10 of GA 2 prohibits the World Assembly from 'organising ... police actions ... or military activities under the WA banner',

Believing that the World Assembly cannot effectively enforce legislation against genocide, state terrorism, and mass murder, without its being able to directly and credibly arrest perpetrators of such heinous crimes and render them to its direct jurisdiction,

Finding it manifestly immoral that the Assembly be prohibited from establishing a police force so to render to its direct jurisdiction mass murderers and terrorists to be tried and convicted for their crimes, thereby deterring others from committing similar crimes of similar magnitude,

Objecting to the further inability provided by this article against WA 'organisation' of defensive measures (such measures being military activities) meaning that it is unable to protect humanitarian aid supplies and diplomatic envoys from foreign or non-member state interdiction,

Flabbergasted by the inability of the World Assembly to take a stance against manifestly immoral wars of pure aggression which seek to undermine the peace and subject the populations of member nations to despotism, and

Again reminded that legislation passed by the World Assembly cannot be amended, only repealed, and that any correction of the problems noted in the target resolution would first require passage of a repeal, hereby:

Repeals GA 2, also known as, with debatable affection, "Rights and Duties".
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:49 am, edited 14 times in total.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:26 am

You can find Separatist Peoples' replacement draft here: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=455649&p=3505253 . It, at least, is the replacement draft that I endorse in the eventuality of this repeal's success.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Old Hope
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Postby Old Hope » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:29 am

We looked at this proposal for flaws and we did not find any.
The arguments are legitimate.
Full support.

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Sougra
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Postby Sougra » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:32 am

It says "On Universal Jurisdiction" on the OP. I think you might want to change that.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:35 am

Sougra wrote:It says "On Universal Jurisdiction" on the OP. I think you might want to change that.

It was already changed.

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Sougra
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Postby Sougra » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:36 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:
Sougra wrote:It says "On Universal Jurisdiction" on the OP. I think you might want to change that.

It was already changed.

Yeah, just saw that. I can't say whether or not I support this without looking at the resolution itself, but with like most things, I'd like to see a replacement resolution if possible.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:39 am

I believe Separatist Peoples has a replacement draft somewhere on this forum.

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The Philippine Islands of Luzviminda
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Postby The Philippine Islands of Luzviminda » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:40 am

Well I would object to this as this is the job of local law enforcement/foreign military and some member nations may abuse this.
Last edited by The Philippine Islands of Luzviminda on Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:44 am

The Philippine Islands of Luzviminda wrote:Well I would object to this as this is the job of local law enforcement/foreign military and some member nations may abuse this.

Enforcement of WA law is the responsibility of non-WA actors is a recipe for actual abuse. And let's say that the exact thing is passed with the sole change that the police sections are removed. In that case, I'm also unclear by what means member nations would be able to abuse WA institutions.

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:53 am

Your arguments are not without a rational basis, but I think we can impose compliance without repealing GAR#2.
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:00 am

“Repealing a resolution as monumental as GA #2 should require very good reasoning. I do not believe that the ban on a WA military or police force constitutes such, as it stops an overreach of enforcement of legislation, which could result in some very upset member nations and a drop in membership. There are plenty of ways to fight terrorism and the like without violating GA #2.”
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Old Hope
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Postby Old Hope » Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:31 pm

Kenmoria wrote:“Repealing a resolution as monumental as GA #2 should require very good reasoning. I do not believe that the ban on a WA military or police force constitutes such, as it stops an overreach of enforcement of legislation, which could result in some very upset member nations and a drop in membership. There are plenty of ways to fight terrorism and the like without violating GA #2.”

There is no overreach of enforcement of legislation. WA legislation has to be enforced. Also, a WA police could actually help members having sudden difficulties with law enforcement, and so much more which is barred by that resolution.

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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:04 pm

Kenmoria wrote:“Repealing a resolution as monumental as GA #2 should require very good reasoning. I do not believe that the ban on a WA military or police force constitutes such, as it stops an overreach of enforcement of legislation, which could result in some very upset member nations and a drop in membership. There are plenty of ways to fight terrorism and the like without violating GA #2.”

So how do you intend to go into Terrorstan, which is unwilling to extradite and claims they don't know the location anyway, to apprehend O'Sammy Bins Laden, the perpetrator of the vicious terror attacks against the Global Trade Centre?

You can't do some of that extraordinary rendition, because there's literally no chance that we can pass a law permitting nations to have unlimited self-help in foreign jurisdictions. And if you want to make a list of people for which self-help is acceptable, then you run into 'Is that WA endorsement?'. So I'm unclear how you can solve this issue but for World Assembly endorsement of certain arrest actions.

Also, let's ignore the part having to do with defence of aid supplies. The fundamental problem with uni- or multi-lateral action is that it is seen not as a humanitarian action, but as someone taking sides. In the WA, because the WA is presumed to be neutral (unlike our UN), there exists legitimacy which can be endowed on humanitarian missions and the provisioning of protection to those missions means that they can actually do things on the ground rather than get shot at impotently.

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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:32 pm

"Extraordinary! These folks think they can solve the world's problems by repealing the second resolution ever passed by this General Assembly!" mocks Joseph Douglas, the Sacarian Ambassador to the World Assembly. "The use of persuasion in the proposal is somewhat effective, that is, until you start to look deeper into what it means for the World Assembly to form a police force."

Douglas sets the proposal text down on his desk and picks up an untitled document, "As others have pointed out, there need to be an good reason, no? Why is it up to the World Assembly to do so? Your reasons are good, not at the level of the World Assembly, however. This force could be corrupted, and no one knows how the replacement resolution will look. This is another attempt to solve a problem that wasn't there to begin with. Opposed."
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Imperium Anglorum
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Postby Imperium Anglorum » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:34 pm

Sacara wrote:This force could be corrupted,

WA committees and organisations are assumed to work efficiently and perfectly.
Last edited by Imperium Anglorum on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Rhenish League
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Postby The Rhenish League » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:04 pm

Ambassador van Trintelen puts his tin-foil hat up. "Am I stuck in a nightmare, or am I really spectating that little joke proposal becoming a thing ...?"

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Liberimery
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Postby Liberimery » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:26 pm

I would ask when are you going to propose that membership be forced on all nations with no right to leave? Asking for a friend.

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Old Hope
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Postby Old Hope » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:32 pm

Liberimery wrote:I would ask when are you going to propose that membership be forced on all nations with no right to leave? Asking for a friend.

OOC:I can answer that for IA:
Never, the rules for proposals do not allow it, and the game mechanics don't either.

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Liberimery
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Postby Liberimery » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:36 pm

Old Hope wrote:
Liberimery wrote:I would ask when are you going to propose that membership be forced on all nations with no right to leave? Asking for a friend.

OOC:I can answer that for IA:
Never, the rules for proposals do not allow it, and the game mechanics don't either.


OOC: Obviously you can discern sarcasm and rhetorical questions.

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Wallenburg
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Postby Wallenburg » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:37 pm

Liberimery wrote:
Old Hope wrote:OOC:I can answer that for IA:
Never, the rules for proposals do not allow it, and the game mechanics don't either.

OOC: Obviously you can discern sarcasm and rhetorical questions.

OOC: I'm afraid I don't understand the joke. :unsure:
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Sacara
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Postby Sacara » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:43 pm

Wallenburg wrote:OOC: I'm afraid I don't understand the joke. :unsure:
I can. And it was pretty good. ;)
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The Rhenish League
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Ex-Nation

Postby The Rhenish League » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:55 pm

Sacara wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:OOC: I'm afraid I don't understand the joke. :unsure:
I can. And it was pretty good. ;)

OOC: So can I, but obviously some have trouble with it. But we help where we can, so, Liberimery, where's your sarcasm sign?

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Liberimery
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Postby Liberimery » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:17 pm

The Rhenish League wrote:
Sacara wrote:I can. And it was pretty good. ;)

OOC: So can I, but obviously some have trouble with it. But we help where we can, so, Liberimery, where's your sarcasm sign?


OOC: Explaining the joke makes it funnier! [/sarcasm]

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Jutsa
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Postby Jutsa » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:38 pm

"Vehemently against! The World Assembly has no right to enforce police actions! Who would do it without pay? Who would donate to such an act with the heinous amounts of donation-specific taxes already? What would the member nations do if the international committee were to essentially invade them?"

*Looks at a small page of points to make.*

"If anything, the member states can cover it; but the World Assembly must not stand for a repeal of one of its most essential resolutions!"

OOC: Also you said yourself:
WA committees and organisations are assumed to work efficiently and perfectly.
This means that they can prevent genocide regardless of a police force. :rofl:
ed: small edit to some text, don't mind this~
Last edited by Jutsa on Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Mon Nov 05, 2018 9:08 pm

Jutsa wrote:"Vehemently against! The World Assembly has no right to enforce police actions! Who would do it without pay? Who would donate to such an act with the heinous amounts of donation-specific taxes already?

Ambassador, law and order are very noble things to donate towards. As is the prevention of genocide.
Jutsa wrote:What would the member nations do if the international committee were to essentially invade them?"

[/quote]
I believe every Member State would, effectively, leave the WA, stop paying taxes if they actually remained, and launch condemnation of IA in response.

Jutsa wrote:"If anything, the member states can cover it; but the World Assembly must not stand for a repeal of one of its most essential resolutions!"

How many Genocides have happened again? We don't prevent them, at least, not nearly enough.
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