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[PASSED] Repeal "Condemn Ninja Pirate awesome town"

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Naivetry
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Ex-Nation

[PASSED] Repeal "Condemn Ninja Pirate awesome town"

Postby Naivetry » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:56 am

The World Assembly,

Affirming the existence of higher regulatory powers known as "Game Moderators" whose job it is to warn, delete, and ban offending nations,

Acknowledging that these higher powers have established the "Getting Help Request" as a means by which they may be petitioned for aid,

Aware that the offenses of spam and harassment mentioned in "Condemn Ninja Pirate awesome town" fall under the purview of the aforementioned Game Moderators and not of the World Assembly,

Admitting that Ninja Pirate awesome town consists of a great number of puppet nations when it is not being raided,

Still somewhat annoyed at the use of puppets to artificially inflate the population of a region,

Asserting, however, that the simple presence of puppets in a region does not merit the world's attention nor a permanent entry into the legislative record of the World Assembly,

Encouraging all nations to deal with spam and harassment through the appropriate channel of a "Getting Help Request" rather than asking the World Assembly to give such miscreants a badge and eternal world-wide fame,

Repeals "Condemn Ninja Pirate awesome town".


Yeah, yeah, I know. No one likes these preemptive repeals. I'm writing it because I either have to do something or go cry in a corner about how my side of the game is dead and never coming back.
Last edited by Naivetry on Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:04 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Tzorsland
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Tzorsland » Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:08 am

There are some exceptions to this rule, and it looks like it is going to pass by a large margin. This resolution is just as bad (game wise) as the dreaded Max Barry Day resolution. To misquote from that famous daily issue ... "Now that's just wrong. We need to restore some sense to this debate, by which I mean we should remove this resolution from the record, salt it thoroughly, and burn it."
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Mad Sheep Railgun
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Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mad Sheep Railgun » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:08 am

Hurrah! I will support this repeal.
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Omigodtheyplutoedkenny
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Omigodtheyplutoedkenny » Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:21 am

Naivetry wrote:Admitting that Ninja Pirate awesome town consists of a great number of puppet nations when it is not being raided,

You may be on to something here. We shouldn't be condemning Ninja Pirate awesome town; we should be Liberating Ninja Pirate awesome town! In fact, I think that should be our very next resolution!

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Mousebumples
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Postby Mousebumples » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:05 am

I was thinking about getting a repeal of this going as well - but I made the mistake of going to bed before drafting anything.

I support this repeal.
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Potato World
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Ex-Nation

Postby Potato World » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:46 pm

Okay, so I know I'm not one to comment on this thread, since I'm the writer of the resolution that you're trying to repeal (which still hasn't been passed, by the way), but I think this is completely unreasonable. I created this proposal for several reasons. One of the reasons was to help resolve a conflict between Pirate Ninja awesome town, my region, my nation, and some other players. I don't see how repealing this would do any good to anyone. Repealing it would enforce behavior from regions and nations like stated in the resolution. Some regions and nations might say "Hey, that Ninja Pirate region got away with it, we could do the same thing." It's not like this proposal affects your nation's personal statistics or the welfare or non-welfare of NationStates in general. It's just showing that what NPat did shouldn't be done.

Plus, there are plenty other issues going on in NationStates, and this isn't even an issue. The fact that you are spending your time trying to repeal a condemnation in the Security Council just shows that you refuse to acknowledge actual international issues going on. Don't you have better things to do than repeal this bill, especially one that is winning in the World Assembly by a margin of over 1,000 votes?

Obviously, as the writer of the bill you are proposing to repeal, I will vote against this, if it were to reach quorum. I doubt I will be alone in voting against this, especially because you're trying to get this on the floor right after this bill will (probably) pass.

Well, that's all of my rant for now. I know that some of your will just dissect my claims and pull out random statements, saying that they're false by giving baseless evidence, which I seem to see all too often in these forums. I welcome your opinions, but don't just make up random BS against me.
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The Masked Ambassador
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Founded: Apr 06, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby The Masked Ambassador » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:09 pm

Ah, this repeal is such an excellent idea... just to see that condemnation proposal winning the vote on the Security Council makes my stomach feel strange...

...erm, excuse me, need to go to the toilet.

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Naivetry
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Ex-Nation

Postby Naivetry » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:35 am

Potato World wrote:Okay, so I know I'm not one to comment on this thread, since I'm the writer of the resolution that you're trying to repeal (which still hasn't been passed, by the way), but I think this is completely unreasonable.

You're welcome to post here. I try not to bite. :P

I created this proposal for several reasons. One of the reasons was to help resolve a conflict between Pirate Ninja awesome town, my region, my nation, and some other players.

Once the Condemnation is passed, it becomes a permanent fixture of the World Assembly legislative record. If you want to resolve a conflict with someone else, you can threaten a Condemnation, but once it passes, both they and you (and the rest of us) are stuck with it. That seems to me less like resolving a conflict between players and more like rendering it incapable of resolution. You'll always be the person who Condemned their region, and they'll be stuck with that Condemnation regardless of whether or not their behavior changes. Unless, of course, the resolution is repealed.

I don't see how repealing this would do any good to anyone. Repealing it would enforce behavior from regions and nations like stated in the resolution. Some regions and nations might say "Hey, that Ninja Pirate region got away with it, we could do the same thing."

Clearly Ninja Pirate awesome town has been receiving moderator attention. They are not getting away with it. It's just that the wheels of justice move slowly around here to give the guilty time to repent.

It's not like this proposal affects your nation's personal statistics or the welfare or non-welfare of NationStates in general. It's just showing that what NPat did shouldn't be done.

That information can be found in the FAQ, which supersedes anything done by this body. I earnestly desire NOT to spend the next two years pretending that the WA Security Council's job is to yell at people for breaking rules which the game moderators enforce far more effectively.

Plus, there are plenty other issues going on in NationStates, and this isn't even an issue. The fact that you are spending your time trying to repeal a condemnation in the Security Council just shows that you refuse to acknowledge actual international issues going on. Don't you have better things to do than repeal this bill, especially one that is winning in the World Assembly by a margin of over 1,000 votes?

This is an issue about the purpose of the Security Council, in which I am deeply interested. Out of the other events occurring in NationStates right now, none besides Aegara's attempt at taking over The Rejected Realms is of any larger significance. If you know of other international issues which deserve attention, please feel free to bring them up.

Obviously, as the writer of the bill you are proposing to repeal, I will vote against this, if it were to reach quorum. I doubt I will be alone in voting against this, especially because you're trying to get this on the floor right after this bill will (probably) pass.

As much as people here tend to dislike InstaRepeals, I think this one will actually have a chance. Let me explain why.

I believe the reason this resolution is passing is simply that the voters are not thinking about the issue in its larger context. They look at it and say, "Oh, people doing Bad Things... okay, let's say they're Bad People!" They don't stop to think about whether or not it should be the Security Council's business every time someone spams their region, when all that a Condemnation from the Security Council can do is give you a black badge on your region page saying you've been a naughty girl or boy. I am writing this repeal because I feel with the strongest conviction that it should NOT be the Security Council's business every time someone spams your region. That's why we have Game Moderators. It's not just upsetting behavior, it is OOC and by game rules ILLEGAL behavior, and if they keep it up they will continue to be deleted.

The Security Council was not created to replace the Moderators, and I am afraid that people in addition to yourself are going to think that's exactly what it's for if this resolution remains on the books. That is why I will either see it repealed, or abandon this part of the game as it becomes a rotting sinkhole for every complaint that should have been lodged via GHR with the people who can actually do something about it.

Well, that's all of my rant for now. I know that some of your will just dissect my claims and pull out random statements, saying that they're false by giving baseless evidence, which I seem to see all too often in these forums. I welcome your opinions, but don't just make up random BS against me.

I hope you feel I have not treated your claims as random or baseless. We have a sincere and very deep difference of opinion here on the reason why the Security Council exists, and I will be happy to continue this discussion with you about what I think the Security Council is and isn't for, and why, if you think that it doesn't quite make sense.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I'll submit it once this passes, as it seems likely to in 11 hours.

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Potato World
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Ex-Nation

Postby Potato World » Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:14 pm

Naivetry wrote:
Potato World wrote:Okay, so I know I'm not one to comment on this thread, since I'm the writer of the resolution that you're trying to repeal (which still hasn't been passed, by the way), but I think this is completely unreasonable.

You're welcome to post here. I try not to bite. :P

I created this proposal for several reasons. One of the reasons was to help resolve a conflict between Pirate Ninja awesome town, my region, my nation, and some other players.

Once the Condemnation is passed, it becomes a permanent fixture of the World Assembly legislative record. If you want to resolve a conflict with someone else, you can threaten a Condemnation, but once it passes, both they and you (and the rest of us) are stuck with it. That seems to me less like resolving a conflict between players and more like rendering it incapable of resolution. You'll always be the person who Condemned their region, and they'll be stuck with that Condemnation regardless of whether or not their behavior changes. Unless, of course, the resolution is repealed.

I don't see how repealing this would do any good to anyone. Repealing it would enforce behavior from regions and nations like stated in the resolution. Some regions and nations might say "Hey, that Ninja Pirate region got away with it, we could do the same thing."

Clearly Ninja Pirate awesome town has been receiving moderator attention. They are not getting away with it. It's just that the wheels of justice move slowly around here to give the guilty time to repent.

It's not like this proposal affects your nation's personal statistics or the welfare or non-welfare of NationStates in general. It's just showing that what NPat did shouldn't be done.

That information can be found in the FAQ, which supersedes anything done by this body. I earnestly desire NOT to spend the next two years pretending that the WA Security Council's job is to yell at people for breaking rules which the game moderators enforce far more effectively.

Plus, there are plenty other issues going on in NationStates, and this isn't even an issue. The fact that you are spending your time trying to repeal a condemnation in the Security Council just shows that you refuse to acknowledge actual international issues going on. Don't you have better things to do than repeal this bill, especially one that is winning in the World Assembly by a margin of over 1,000 votes?

This is an issue about the purpose of the Security Council, in which I am deeply interested. Out of the other events occurring in NationStates right now, none besides Aegara's attempt at taking over The Rejected Realms is of any larger significance. If you know of other international issues which deserve attention, please feel free to bring them up.

Obviously, as the writer of the bill you are proposing to repeal, I will vote against this, if it were to reach quorum. I doubt I will be alone in voting against this, especially because you're trying to get this on the floor right after this bill will (probably) pass.

As much as people here tend to dislike InstaRepeals, I think this one will actually have a chance. Let me explain why.

I believe the reason this resolution is passing is simply that the voters are not thinking about the issue in its larger context. They look at it and say, "Oh, people doing Bad Things... okay, let's say they're Bad People!" They don't stop to think about whether or not it should be the Security Council's business every time someone spams their region, when all that a Condemnation from the Security Council can do is give you a black badge on your region page saying you've been a naughty girl or boy. I am writing this repeal because I feel with the strongest conviction that it should NOT be the Security Council's business every time someone spams your region. That's why we have Game Moderators. It's not just upsetting behavior, it is OOC and by game rules ILLEGAL behavior, and if they keep it up they will continue to be deleted.

The Security Council was not created to replace the Moderators, and I am afraid that people in addition to yourself are going to think that's exactly what it's for if this resolution remains on the books. That is why I will either see it repealed, or abandon this part of the game as it becomes a rotting sinkhole for every complaint that should have been lodged via GHR with the people who can actually do something about it.

Well, that's all of my rant for now. I know that some of your will just dissect my claims and pull out random statements, saying that they're false by giving baseless evidence, which I seem to see all too often in these forums. I welcome your opinions, but don't just make up random BS against me.

I hope you feel I have not treated your claims as random or baseless. We have a sincere and very deep difference of opinion here on the reason why the Security Council exists, and I will be happy to continue this discussion with you about what I think the Security Council is and isn't for, and why, if you think that it doesn't quite make sense.

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I'll submit it once this passes, as it seems likely to in 11 hours.


Okay, first off, no, I don't think you just treated my claims as random or baseless. Far too many people on the forums like that still, but you're not one of them (as far as I can see right now). I'm kind of in a rush to get this posted right now, as I want to get this finished before doing some work.

I understand your opinions on the Security Council, and why its purpose is still unclear to many people. Right now, I'll just propose one question to you: what would you consider to be a decent condemnation to submit?
King Brettius XVIII, Grand Ruler of The Bountiful Fields of Potato World; World Assembly Delegate for Imperium Sine Fine

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Naivetry
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Ex-Nation

Postby Naivetry » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:22 pm

Potato World wrote:Okay, first off, no, I don't think you just treated my claims as random or baseless. Far too many people on the forums like that still, but you're not one of them (as far as I can see right now). I'm kind of in a rush to get this posted right now, as I want to get this finished before doing some work.

Ah, work. :blush: *ignores the pile of quizzes waiting to be graded*

I understand your opinions on the Security Council, and why its purpose is still unclear to many people. Right now, I'll just propose one question to you: what would you consider to be a decent condemnation to submit?

Well, so far there are two types: the backhanded compliment, and the serious condemnation. Condemn Omigodtheykilledkenny was the first type, and we've seen a couple different versions of the second. Out of the serious Condemnations that have passed, the only one that I would hold up as a good example would be the one based on national RP: Condemn Greater Tezdrian. Out of the ones that haven't passed, there're two versions of Condemn Aegara, which has to do with actual in-game events - mine and Krioval's. I prefer mine, but clearly I'm biased. :P (Yeah, Krioval's is funny... but it happens to be making fun of a part of the game that is only fun when you take it seriously, and the fact that I don't know anyone still active in regional politics who understands how that works, makes me feel all sad and lonely.)

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Charlotte Ryberg
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Fri Apr 09, 2010 7:52 pm

I won't be going to be crying because I just woke up... well, every SC resolution passed is another task for our librarians: anyway, Ms. harper would be pleased to support such a repeal since we've observed puppets being used for good overseas missions, like representation in another region.

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Naivetry
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Ex-Nation

Postby Naivetry » Fri Apr 09, 2010 9:31 pm

Mm. And I'll submit this as soon as I have a second endorsement... 's what I get for waiting until all my friends are asleep.

EDIT: And it's up.
Last edited by Naivetry on Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Biyah
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Ex-Nation

Postby Biyah » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:35 am

I'm good with the repeal, this is another one that never should have made it.
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Mad Sheep Railgun
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Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mad Sheep Railgun » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:15 pm

.
Last edited by Mad Sheep Railgun on Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Krioval
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Krioval » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:25 pm

Absolutely, this should be repealed. Then a proper condemnation of Ninja Pirate awesome town must be written and submitted.

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Mad Sheep Railgun
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Benevolent Dictatorship

Postby Mad Sheep Railgun » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:29 pm

Krioval wrote:Absolutely, this should be repealed. Then a proper condemnation of Ninja Pirate awesome town must be written and submitted.

Aleksei-kan Volkov
Imperial Chiefdom of Krioval


.
Last edited by Mad Sheep Railgun on Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Naivetry
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Ex-Nation

Postby Naivetry » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:38 pm

I rather doubt they've done anything that could be Condemned outside of the spam and harassment itself. There are a number of well-known and persistent puppet regions that no one has bothered to Condemn, because really, unless your regional population is somehow representative of the number of active players you have, it's a meaningless statistic.

Between this thread and Condemn Aegara, I'm starting to read Aleksei like the SC's version of Stephen Colbert. :P

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Charlotte Ryberg
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Founded: Mar 14, 2007
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Charlotte Ryberg » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:32 pm

Naivetry wrote:Mm. And I'll submit this as soon as I have a second endorsement... 's what I get for waiting until all my friends are asleep.

EDIT: And it's up.

Excellent, honoured ambassador: you have Ms. harper's full endorsement. Now, where's the thumbs up smiley?...

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Krioval
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Founded: Jan 24, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Krioval » Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:35 am

Fantastic. There is nothing more critical to the Security Council's image than this repeal. Let the people decide - twice when necessary.

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Mousebumples
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Postby Mousebumples » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:58 pm

Krioval wrote:Fantastic. There is nothing more critical to the Security Council's image than this repeal. Let the people decide - twice when necessary.

And think of the ratings! The introduction of those new characters (the Game Moderators) should really get people to tune in - and just in time for sweeps!
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Naivetry
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Founded: Aug 02, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Naivetry » Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:31 am

Thanks to everyone who's approved this so far, and to Uni for TG'ing for it while I was sick. :)

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Metania
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Ex-Nation

Postby Metania » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:00 am

Yes, let us demolish that condemnation resolution, for while it may have had some points to it, it also introduced strange and alarming precedents in the SC which would exist only to haunt us further down the line.
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Unibotian WA Mission
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Ex-Nation

Postby Unibotian WA Mission » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:24 pm

Naivetry wrote:Thanks to everyone who's approved this so far, and to Uni for TG'ing for it while I was sick. :)


No problemo. :hug:
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Naivetry
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Ex-Nation

Postby Naivetry » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:08 pm

*looks around the SC for hints about what to do*

So, I've never really paid that close of attention to how this works - does this thread get updated with an At Vote tag, or do we create a new one?

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South Norwega
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Ex-Nation

Postby South Norwega » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:13 pm

I think the thread gets updated with AT VOTE and then gets stickied by the mods.

Lodged my vote for.
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