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Romania May Redefine Marriage "Between 1 Man and 1 Woman"

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Kannap
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Romania May Redefine Marriage "Between 1 Man and 1 Woman"

Postby Kannap » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:18 pm

The two-day vote on changing their constitution has been portrayed by supporters of the referendum as a way of protecting the status of the "traditional" family. Opponents warn it will come at the expense of same-sex couples, single parents and children too. And there are accusations that the whole exercise is a sideshow to distract from a corruption case involving the leader of the ruling party.

Romania does not recognise gay marriage or civil unions, and the referendum does not change that. Instead, it is about clarifying the language in the constitution. Article 48 says the family "is founded on the freely consented marriage of the spouses". A Yes vote would change that to "marriage between a man and a woman". "We want to protect, at a constitutional level, the definition of marriage - between one woman and one man," says Mihai Gheorghiu, president of the pro-referendum Coalition for Family. Mr Gheorghiu - a former government minister - is adamant that same-sex couples would not lose out. "In respect of LGBT rights and needs, there will be no change," he says. Homosexuality in Romania was decriminalised in 2001.

The proposal certainly has plenty of support. Mr Gheorghiu's coalition collected three million signatures to start the process, in a population of under 19 million. The Romanian Orthodox Church backs the campaign and as many as 85% of Romanians consider themselves Orthodox Christians. But while Romanians are expected to vote yes, the No campaign's strategy is to boycott the vote and hope the turnout falls below the 30% needed to be valid. Romania has seen referendums invalidated in the past because of a low turnout. The 2016 general election saw under 40% of the electorate cast a vote.

The vote is a battle for hearts and minds, says Katrin Hugendubel of the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association (ILGA).She accuses the Yes campaign of framing the vote around gay marriage when "what it's actually trying to do is change the definition of family". "It's a broad attack on family rights." Romania continues to have one of the lowest rates of acceptance towards LGBTI rights, she says, with no legal protection for same-sex couples, either in partnerships or marriage, and high rates of "homophobic and transphobic hate" - especially in rural areas.

Critics argue that defining family as based on a marriage between a man and a woman would mean that constitutional protection would no longer apply to single parents, partners with children or grandparents raising children. Neither is uncommon in a country where working-age parents can earn more abroad and send money home to support their family. The Coalition for Family argues that the rights of these groups are already protected elsewhere in Romanian law. "Speaking from a legislation point of view and from a constitutional point of view, the situation is balanced," says Mihai Gheorghiu.

A group of 47 MEPs wrote to Romania's prime minister ahead of the vote warning that redefining the family had the potential to harm children in all families. Romania's current approach to "non-traditional" family relationships remains unclear. At the end of September, the constitutional court ruled that gay couples should have the same rights as heterosexuals. It followed a June 2018 ruling by the European Court of Justice in favour of a Romanian man, Adrian Coman, who had married his American partner in Belgium. His partner had been denied a spousal visa when the pair had tried to move to Romania.

Source


It's always a shame to hear when countries or groups of people are moving against a minority of people, in a potentially hateful way. Yes, Romania doesn't recognize same-sex marriages or civil unions, but defining marriage to be between one man and one woman at the constitutional level will make it harder for progress to occur in the future. There is no reason to deny marriage rights for same sex couples, but here Romania may just do that.

So, NSG, what's your opinion on this one?

BUCHAREST (Reuters) - Many Romanians appeared to boycott a vote on Sunday on whether to enshrine in the constitution that marriage must only be between a man and a woman, as turnout remained low on the second day of a referendum. The vote is seen as a proxy for the popularity of the ruling Social Democrat Party (PSD) and has seen campaigners direct slurs at LGBT people. The conservative European Union member already bars marriage and civil partnerships for same sex couples.

The referendum was brought about by a civil society group, called the Coalition for the Family, which raised 3 million signatures to trigger the vote to ensure gay couples never win the right to marry in the future. The Coalition received backing from the Orthodox Church and other religions as well as all but one parliamentary party, which endorsed the referendum. By 1000 GMT on Sunday, eight hours before polls close, voter turnout stood at just under 12 percent. The vote needs a turnout rate of 30 percent, or more than 5 million people, to be valid by the time the polls close at 1800 GMT.

Ahead of the referendum, dozens of European Parliament members sent an open letter to Romania’s prime minister telling her the referendum was a mistake that would promote hate speech against LGBT community. Dozens of human rights groups have also warned that approval would embolden further attempts to chip away at the rights of minority groups and push Romania onto a populist, authoritarian track. They have encouraged people to boycott the ballot, with several companies and popular musicians and artists following. A library chain even offered a book discount over the weekend for those who wanted to stay in and read rather than vote.

In villages across the country, people were quoted as saying they had better things to do, such as canning and making wine. “The PSD staked everything on the referendum, by associating with it and trying to capitalize on it,” said Sergiu Miscoiu, a political science professor at Babes-Bolyai University. “Regardless of whether it passes narrowly or if it doesn’t pass, what remains is the fact that many citizens have associated the initiative with the PSD and that is why they boycotted it. Either way, it is a major sanction against the government.”

PSD leader Liviu Dragnea, whose appeal against a criminal conviction in an abuse of office case is due to start on Monday, was undeterred after he voted on Saturday. “I voted for what millions of Romanians are asking, for what I believe defines us as a society and a nation,” he told reporters. “We all know that for years we’ve been told others know what is best for us better than we do. I believe it is time we decide what kind of society and country we want to have and how we want to live in our country,” Dragnea said.

Two members of the election committee in his voting station refused to shake his hand. A poll released on Friday by CURS estimated turnout would be 34 percent - above the needed 30 percent threshold - with 90 percent of those who would turn out to the polls in favor. Romania decriminalized homosexuality in 2001, decades after neighboring countries. It ranks 25th out of 28 EU states based on legislation, hate speech and discrimination against LGBT people, an annual study by ILGA-Europe, an umbrella organization advocating equality, showed.

Source


If you've read this far, the OP has been updated with this newer article. Good news, by far. Perhaps Romania will actually not fall for this horrible push by the government to further restrict marriage.
Last edited by Kannap on Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Diopolis » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:42 pm

Looks like homosexual mirage is gaining traction in Romania. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to try something like that.
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 5:46 pm

Good for them. Whatever makes Romanians content, including protection of their culture.
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Postby Petrasylvania » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:05 pm

Gotta make gay sex taboo and kinky again apparently.
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Postby The South Falls » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:08 pm

Diopolis wrote:Looks like homosexual mirage is gaining traction in Romania. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to try something like that.

It's most likely a distraction from other issues.
Trumptonium1 wrote:Good for them. Whatever makes Romanians content, including protection of their culture.

Denying someone their rights is not a "whatever floats your boat" think.
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Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:08 pm

Petrasylvania wrote:Gotta make gay sex taboo and kinky again apparently.


It's the best kind.

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Postby Diopolis » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:09 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Looks like homosexual mirage is gaining traction in Romania. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to try something like that.

It's most likely a distraction from other issues.
Trumptonium1 wrote:Good for them. Whatever makes Romanians content, including protection of their culture.

Denying someone their rights is not a "whatever floats your boat" think.

You have a right to marry whomever you damn well please, apparently.
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Postby The South Falls » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:10 pm

Diopolis wrote:
The South Falls wrote:It's most likely a distraction from other issues.

Denying someone their rights is not a "whatever floats your boat" think.

You have a right to marry whomever you damn well please, apparently.

Love who you want to love, as long as it's not a child. And it's consensual. And it's a human. There.
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Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:15 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Diopolis wrote:You have a right to marry whomever you damn well please, apparently.

Love who you want to love, as long as it's not a child. And it's consensual. And it's a human. There.


I love plenty of children. And a cat. I think they love me too.

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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:17 pm

Well fuck you too, Romania
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Postby Diopolis » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:18 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Diopolis wrote:You have a right to marry whomever you damn well please, apparently.

Love who you want to love, as long as it's not a child. And it's consensual. And it's a human. There.

Do your duty to God and country. Marry someone with whom you can have children, and raise them right.
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Postby Kannap » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:19 pm

Trumptonium1 wrote:Good for them. Whatever makes Romanians content, including protection of their culture.


Even if it harms LGBT Romanians? So much for protecting them
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:20 pm

Diopolis wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Love who you want to love, as long as it's not a child. And it's consensual. And it's a human. There.

Do your duty to God and country. Marry someone with whom you can have children, and raise them right.

So infertle people should do what?
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Postby Kannap » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:20 pm

The South Falls wrote:
Diopolis wrote:You have a right to marry whomever you damn well please, apparently.

Love who you want to love, as long as it's not a child. And it's consensual. And it's a human. There.


The cultural oppression of people who love Martians is something I can get behind.
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:21 pm

Diopolis wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Love who you want to love, as long as it's not a child. And it's consensual. And it's a human. There.

Do your duty to God and country. Marry someone with whom you can have children, and raise them right.


Homosexuals, infertile women, and sterile men therefore should not marry, make marriage between any of those parties illegal.
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Postby Uxupox » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:22 pm

easy solution to this problem. make marriage illegal.
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Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:23 pm

Can someone explain to me how same-sex couples don't "lose out" here? Because as it stands I'm having trouble understanding Mr. Gheorghiu's logic on the subject.
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Postby Dark Socialism » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:23 pm

The only problem I have with this is that it's against patriarchal polygamy (1 man 1< Women)
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:25 pm

Kannap wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Do your duty to God and country. Marry someone with whom you can have children, and raise them right.


Homosexuals, infertile women, and sterile men therefore should not marry, make marriage between any of those parties illegal.


How would most people know that they're infertile before getting married and trying to have kids?
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Postby Internationalist Bastard » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:26 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Homosexuals, infertile women, and sterile men therefore should not marry, make marriage between any of those parties illegal.


How would most people know that they're infertile before getting married and trying to have kids?

We have this ting called science actually
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Postby The South Falls » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:26 pm

Diopolis wrote:
The South Falls wrote:Love who you want to love, as long as it's not a child. And it's consensual. And it's a human. There.

Do your duty to God and country. Marry someone with whom you can have children, and raise them right.

Gay people can do all those things.
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:26 pm

Kannap wrote:
Trumptonium1 wrote:Good for them. Whatever makes Romanians content, including protection of their culture.


Even if it harms LGBT Romanians? So much for protecting them


I don't see how not giving them what they didn't have in the first place "harms" LGBT people.
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:26 pm

Uxupox wrote:easy solution to this problem. make marriage illegal.


A promising solution.
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Postby Salus Maior » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:27 pm

Internationalist Bastard wrote:
Salus Maior wrote:
How would most people know that they're infertile before getting married and trying to have kids?

We have this ting called science actually


Sure, but I imagine most people assume they can have kids and thus don't take fertility tests until something raises their suspicions.
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Sat Oct 06, 2018 6:27 pm

Salus Maior wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Homosexuals, infertile women, and sterile men therefore should not marry, make marriage between any of those parties illegal.


How would most people know that they're infertile before getting married and trying to have kids?


Let me hit you with two big modern concepts:

1. Medical science

2. Sex before marriage
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