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Why Am I Nice?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)
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Democratic Are Oretopia
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Why Am I Nice?

Postby Democratic Are Oretopia » Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:48 pm

My parents raised me well, by the standards set by them, of course. I learned to always respect those people in positions of authority. I go to church every Sunday, and I would consider myself somewhat religious. I have never once used an e-cigarette, smoked, or taken any drugs. I have a strong conscience - I do the right thing, most of the time. I do not cuss regularly, and I'm always the person to hold the door open for the next guy and the one who says thank you and bless you. I have a large social group - a lot of people who I talk to and speak with quite often. I do not have a temper whatsoever, I can put up with bullshit for most of the time.

Most of the time.

Yet for that 5-10% of the time, I lose it. Not outwardly, but on the inside. I do everything that I can to be nice to other people. I'm very patient and I'm good as defusing situations. Yet, not always are people nice back to me. Sometimes, I get verbally abused by friends (nothing bad, but just overwhelming at times). I'm the subject of jokes more often than not, although that doesn't make sense as to why. I'm always the first person to help out a friend emotionally during times of stress, and yet they treat me like that? I cannot comprehend why for the life of me. I do all that I can for my friends, I would even take a bullet for them. However, they don't always pay me back. When I'm down, no one comes running to me for help.

Now, this isn't a pity party for me. This happens to many 'nice people'. Rather, this is a discussion as to what incentive is there for people in the world to be nice? Why should people be nice if they do not get the same common courtesy to be repaid? I can't figure out why. It's not hard to be nice; it just must be easier to be rude.
Last edited by Democratic Are Oretopia on Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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United New England
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Postby United New England » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:31 pm

Issues such as church attendance and drug use are personal choices that do not directly affect how respectfully you treat others. Putting up with bull sounds negative; maybe you should try politely but firmly addressing people’s problematic behaviors.

As for why you should be kind even when others are not, remember the expression “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”. If someone stabs you in the eye and you decide it’s fair game to start stabbing others in the eye, and then more and more people adopt your attitude, who is going to be left with the ability to see? Treating rude people the way they treat you instead of the way you’d want to be treated is sinking to their level.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:38 pm

Nice is terrible. It's a placeholder word for the absence of personality.

People don't commit, either as deep friends or anything more, to someone who doesn't have more about them. It's one of the main reasons "nice guy syndrome" exists, this idea that you only have to be a vaguely polite non-entity and all the feeeeemales will be chasing you like you're the protag in a Lynx advert.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:44 pm

Because you are treating other people as you want to be treated, or because it is simply within your nature to be kind, which is often taken to be a weakness or undesirable trait. There is room for kindness, but it is also important to be willing to say no or to work in your self interest, or to use leverage to your advantage when or if you get that opportunity.

Treat more (or almost everything) as a quid pro quo. That is a path more conducive for success. Don't hate or abuse other people, but don't help out people who don't help you either. You should give only as much as you get.
Last edited by Saiwania on Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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New haven america
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Postby New haven america » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:47 pm

Well, I'm generally kind to others IRL because when I was growing up most people around me were assholes, so I made the conscience decision to not act like the people who made my life miserable, because I know what it feels like to be in a situation where you have no one to support you or even show/have basic common courtesy.
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Postby Nau States » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:54 pm

I'm an actual, honest-to-god sociopath, and I act nice in order to blend in with everyone else. As experience can attest, being a social pariah is no way to live.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:56 pm

Nau States wrote:I'm an actual, honest-to-god sociopath, and I act nice in order to blend in with everyone else. As experience can attest, being a social pariah is no way to live.


Better to be a social piranha. Hide in a tank and bite anyone who passes until they agree to be friends.
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Postby New haven america » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:58 pm

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Nau States wrote:I'm an actual, honest-to-god sociopath, and I act nice in order to blend in with everyone else. As experience can attest, being a social pariah is no way to live.


Better to be a social piranha. Hide in a tank and bite anyone who passes until they agree to be friends.

And if they lose a leg? Eh, it's all part of the process, I'm sure they'll understand.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:59 pm

New haven america wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Better to be a social piranha. Hide in a tank and bite anyone who passes until they agree to be friends.

And if they lose a leg? Eh, it's all part of the process, I'm sure they'll understand.


All the more reason for them to lean on me

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Postby Bombadil » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:01 pm

If you're being nice in the expectation that others will be nice to you then you're probably going to get disappointed. For me it's much as I treat lending money.. I lend and never ask for it back, if they do pay back then good on them, if they don't then fine - they key is I don't get disappointed or stressed in expecting something. And I don't lend more than I can afford to give away.

However, it is really important to learn how to say no as well. Know your boundaries.
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Gawdzendia
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Postby Gawdzendia » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:08 am

Nice isn't the right word for me, as my attitude switches between 'Civility' and 'Kindness', depending on my present company. I dole out kindness to those I believe deserve it unconditionally, as doing otherwise feels dishonest to me.
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Iridencia
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Postby Iridencia » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:19 am

Democratic Are Oretopia wrote:My parents raised me well, by the standards set by them, of course.


We don't exactly have those standards, so.

I learned to always respect those people in positions of authority.


Many don't consider this to be an admirable trait, for good reason. As soon as you guarantee that authority will be respected just for being authority, you give it permission to abuse. But I digress.

I go to church every Sunday, and I would consider myself somewhat religious.


This is an arbitrary trait that has zero effect on how good of a person you are.

I have never once used an e-cigarette, smoked, or taken any drugs.


Also arbitrary.

I have a strong conscience - I do the right thing, most of the time.


The majority of people think they do. Nobody makes a point of doing things they consider evil on a regular basis—if they do evil things, it's either because they consider those things actually good or simply unimportant. Point is, being wrong doesn't feel any different from being right, doing what you think is right doesn't necessarily mean you actually did what was right.

I do not cuss regularly,


Once again, arbitrary.

and I'm always the person to hold the door open for the next guy and the one who says thank you and bless you.


That is nice, but pretty basic minimum nice.

I have a large social group - a lot of people who I talk to and speak with quite often. I do not have a temper whatsoever, I can put up with bullshit for most of the time.


Having lots of friends, like many of the things you've listed, does not make you a good person. Lots of assholes have followers and comrades. I dare say that assholes being able to make friends and amass followings is the cause of 99.9999999% of our species' problems.

As for temper, I'll just have to take your word for it.

Most of the time.

Yet for that 5-10% of the time, I lose it. Not outwardly, but on the inside.


Yes, it is called being a normal human being with emotions and not a Care Bear (other than Grumpy Bear.) I assure you there's no cause for alarm.

I do everything that I can to be nice to other people. I'm very patient and I'm good as defusing situations. Yet, not always are people nice back to me. Sometimes, I get verbally abused by friends (nothing bad, but just overwhelming at times). I'm the subject of jokes more often than not, although that doesn't make sense as to why. I'm always the first person to help out a friend emotionally during times of stress, and yet they treat me like that? I cannot comprehend why for the life of me. I do all that I can for my friends, I would even take a bullet for them. However, they don't always pay me back. When I'm down, no one comes running to me for help.


Cruel people exist. Often times, they seek out those who are more hesitant to punish them for their cruelty and hang on to them like leaches, using them and abusing them for their own selfish reasons. If your friends specifically are using you like this, it may be specifically because you see yourself as such a "nice person," you don't want to do anything to jeopardize that self-image and they know it.

Now, this isn't a pity party for me. This happens to many 'nice people'. Rather, this is a discussion as to what incentive is there for people in the world to be nice? Why should people be nice if they do not get the same common courtesy to be repaid? I can't figure out why. It's not hard to be nice; it just must be easier to be rude.


The incentive for compassion is that it drives our species to find strength in numbers, combining different talents and abilities in order to better stave off whatever threat the world throws at us. We are instilled with empathy so that we are not only invested from a benefits perspective, but a raw emotional one too. If you know how to use a spear, and I know how to find food, we'll both live to see the next day and be well-fed. If we try to duke it out on our own, you'll starve to death and I'll be mauled by a wild animal. So if we have to work together to get through the day, the smart thing to do would be to behave in such a way that won't drive us apart.

That doesn't mean that everyone everywhere deserves your compassion. If someone has a habit of stabbing you, trying to placate them isn't going to let you survive for long. Compassion has its limits because not everyone can be reasoned with, not everything wants to work with you, and so you must weed them out before they stunt you. The question is not, "Be nice, or be mean?," it's what amount of niceness for what situation, and what meanness.


I don't say this to be a personal attack, but you seem to not have a very good understanding of what actual compassion looks like. You pick out many arbitrary and intrinsically neutral traits as signs of goodness and don't understand why kindness is not automatically returned by every given person. Generally, this is a sign of someone who understands amicable social interaction as a series of motions and rules but fails to understand the underlying reasons behind and for it. This isn't an uncommon problem to have and it doesn't make you a bad person, but it is one you'll have to work on fixing if you want to have healthy relationships and a happy life. Start focusing less on your church hours and drug habits and more on reflecting on why and how you and others feel the way you do.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:30 am

Avoid the following 9 things which are associated with being nice (to a fault).

1. If you are always giving, people will expect that of you.
Your help and efforts are appreciated less if it is too easy to get. Instead, set limits and ask for help as well, for when you need it.

2. You will develop unrealistic expectations of others.
Because you're giving too much, you expect that in return which is probably almost never forthcoming. This results in anger or resentment. When people don't do as you do in kind, it is because they're looking after their own needs above yours. The basic expectation is that it is up to you to look after your own needs. It is your fault if you're not doing so.

3. People will come to you only when they need something.
You'll be seen as a means to an end, a tool to help them meet their goals instead of yours. Instead, be willing to say "no." At most, refer the person to other people or resources, or help them get organized to where they can do the task themselves.

4. You forget to be kind to yourself.
If you're too busy taking care of everyone else's errands, your own basic needs won't be met and you'll get depression or burn out. If you're giving too much, be willing to stop giving.

5. You will be seen as weak.
Other people will take advantage of you or not see you as a strong leader. People won't give you credit for any accomplishments, they will take credit instead. This is a consequence of you not using leverage to your advantage enough. People need to know that your help isn't a given.

6. You will attract needy people.
You will attract manipulative or needy people because other people perhaps suspect that you help other people so much because deep down- you crave external validation from others. In short, you're inadvertently seen as "needy." Like attracts like people, so in you- other people will just see you as a means to an end, because your help is so easy to get.

7. People will not trust you.
Because relatively few people in this world are truly nice, people will wonder if you have an ulterior motive. You won't be trusted or truly accepted within groups and will have more difficulty with relationships. Instead, value yourself and set limits on what you're willing to do for people. You'll get more respect.

8. You might become needy.
If your basic needs aren't being met, you will subconsciously seek to get those needs met in other places. Too often this is craving external validation such as asking for praise from people or having clingy behavior. Learning to stand up for yourself and to get more self esteem can fix this.

9. You might become more likely to engage in addictive behaviors.
When you give too much, you get stressed, and with too much stress- you may embrace addictive behaviors in order to cope. Your forms of escapism might become overspending, overeating, taking up alcoholism, etc. The solution to this, is to simply stop giving and start valuing your own goals and self, over those of other people.
Last edited by Saiwania on Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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The New California Republic
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Postby The New California Republic » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:15 am

I'm a mix of nasty and nice. Most people are. I am suspicious of anyone who appears to be nice all the time, it usually indicates that there is some hidden pressure valve that is dramatically and catastrophically released in secret from time to time...
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Postby Right wing humour squad » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:20 am

Being nice is for people without convictions and drive. It’s an immature state with several retarding factors.

You either grow out of it, or you fail at achieving anything.

Not being nice is not the same as being rude, though. It’s more being rude in a skilled manner.
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Postby Major-Tom » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:20 am

My incentive isn't to be nice, it's to be fair and good to others. I consider myself a nice person, but what's important to me is treating others with respect. I could attribute this to my parents, my catholic education, etc etc, but I don't. Because, in my mind, I think more humans than one might think actually want to treat others as they would like to be treated. It isn't necessarily being nice, hell, I've been a fucking asshole to a lot of folks, but folks, I think, who deserved a good scolding. My reasoning is, be courteous, good, and respectful to all, and if someone proves to be a piece of shit, then let go of that "niceness." But, at the same time, never let go of a basic sense of human empathy.
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Postby Petrolheadia » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:30 am

Has Saiwania just given out genuine good life advice, instead of racist BS?

Seems like it.
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Postby The Grene Knyght » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:33 am

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Postby United New England » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:37 am

Iridencia wrote:As soon as you guarantee that authority will be respected just for being authority, you give it permission to abuse.


I agree with this statement. We should never respect authority just for being authority. We should instead respect everyone regardless of whether they’re authorities or not. Respect only for authorities leads to abusive societies.
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Postby Chestaan » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:47 am

Often I am an asshole to my friends, but in a joking kind of way. Its kind of how myself and others show they care for someone, by insulting them. Now obviously I make sure not to go too far and I know that the people I'm insulting can take it. When they need me to listen and be sound, I do that as well of course.

As for being nice, in and of itself it means very little. If by nice you mean not causing pain to others and generally helping here you can, making others smile and feel good about themselves then there is no reason as such to do that, you just do it because its the right thing to do. It makes me feel good to make others feel happy. If someone asks me for a favour, and I can grant it, I do it. I don't expect the same in return, but if someone does return it, then great. If not, its fine.

I would also point out that there's a huge difference between being a good person and letting people walk all over you.
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Postby Alvecia » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:18 am

Being nice makes me feel good
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Postby Trumptonium1 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:53 am

I don't like nice people. Or more specifically, overexcited people or disingenuous people.

If you're one of them, you're most likely haunted by people like me. If it is not 'returned' then people most likely see you as doing the latter - your niceness isn't real.
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The Huskar Social Union
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Postby The Huskar Social Union » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:09 am

Im generally nice to people i interact with, more so if its friends or people ive interacted with regularly, for strangers i guess i would be more polite than anything. A lot of the time i wont expect anything back but ill also keep my boundaries for things im willing to do for people. The more i know someone the more i would be willing to do for them and i dont like acting like an asshole towards people, i feel nice when i help others and some times it benefits me too in other ways, like agreeing to take an extra shift for someone at work because hey i get more money, though i wont do it all the time if i had something planned.

Things like Religion does not play into it for me (even when i was a catholic), i dont need it to be nice, its just the way i was raised.
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Dumb Ideologies
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:20 am

I'm not sure I really know much about "niceness", as I think this entails a certain level of relaxation and comfort born both out of a degree of social competence and the two participants being able to view each other as established equals rather than needing to prove themselves in a kind of power struggle that must necessarily have a winner and loser.

Us serial overthinkers pre-inject too much drama and excessive importance into every set piece to the extent that through repetition we unlearn empathy, a quality that's probably fundamentally required for "nice" conversation.
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Petrolheadia
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Postby Petrolheadia » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:12 am

Trumptonium1 wrote:I don't like nice people. Or more specifically, overexcited people or disingenuous people.

If you're one of them, you're most likely haunted by people like me. If it is not 'returned' then people most likely see you as doing the latter - your niceness isn't real.

I'm similar, but I don't see that niceness as fake, just as unnecessary and somewhat annoying,
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